OK guys...seems some here are still interested in continuing on with the OP. So let's get back on topic, K?
Thanks,
Lu
Thanks,
Lu
Getting Something Off My Chest
- Thread starter Jim Davis
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I am writing this respectfully, and I cannot stay on line long, but the original topic was "getting something off my chest" and I believe that is what I was doing... making a point.
Apostle51 is correct. And, IMHO, always typing in bold is rude. Further, apostle was respectful and got slammed. Nuck was making the same point and was funny and got slammed. I chose to make the same point using the same logic as Azure, that being that it is not against the rules, so it's OK.
Lu, you have my esteem and respect, but all of us are making a point... perhaps SJ should rethink at least one of his decissions....
Apostle51 is correct. And, IMHO, always typing in bold is rude. Further, apostle was respectful and got slammed. Nuck was making the same point and was funny and got slammed. I chose to make the same point using the same logic as Azure, that being that it is not against the rules, so it's OK.
Lu, you have my esteem and respect, but all of us are making a point... perhaps SJ should rethink at least one of his decissions....
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None of us said a bad work about any of the mods, just made comments. Mamu and Monkeymonk did not say a bad words. and Nuck made a comment only.
Well, the thread was actually started to talk about the info we give to newbs. I don't think it was meant to be your typical rant or it would have been moved Outside. I think a lot of people appreciate what Jim is saying here and are further interested.
So the other stuff really doesn't belong here. And quite honestly, starting an Outside thread about it isn't a good idea right now.
So hopefully we can let this go and move on with the thread as it was meant.
Thanks,
Lu
So the other stuff really doesn't belong here. And quite honestly, starting an Outside thread about it isn't a good idea right now.
So hopefully we can let this go and move on with the thread as it was meant.
Thanks,
Lu
I will agree, if you will mentor. A lot of us don't like being locked in a room with a 200# gorilla. We unite. Please, mentor...
Back on topic...............
The problem with giving any advice in this area is the we have so little factual information. Almost everything is an opinion. Some well informed and many less so...........but opinion nonetheless.
Is VG harmful if vaped at 6V?
Is PG responsible for this rash?
Will my battery explode if I use this charger?
Will I be able to quit analogs if I use model "XYZ"?
My chest is tight since I quit analogs, why?
What are the health consequences of absorbing nicotine in this fashion?
These are just some examples of questions that none of us have a definite answer to.
I agree the definitive terms should be avoided (Never, best, always, worst, etc) However, you will be hard pressed to answer any question without some conjecture or opinion being found in the answer.
The best you can do is look at the track record of the person responding(search post function) as well as look at the tone and context of the answer. Good, common sense judgment should be the watchword.
The problem with giving any advice in this area is the we have so little factual information. Almost everything is an opinion. Some well informed and many less so...........but opinion nonetheless.
Is VG harmful if vaped at 6V?
Is PG responsible for this rash?
Will my battery explode if I use this charger?
Will I be able to quit analogs if I use model "XYZ"?
My chest is tight since I quit analogs, why?
What are the health consequences of absorbing nicotine in this fashion?
These are just some examples of questions that none of us have a definite answer to.
I agree the definitive terms should be avoided (Never, best, always, worst, etc) However, you will be hard pressed to answer any question without some conjecture or opinion being found in the answer.
The best you can do is look at the track record of the person responding(search post function) as well as look at the tone and context of the answer. Good, common sense judgment should be the watchword.
Aside from the moderator related (If Mr. Bold wants to write in a bold format then let him be as bold as he can be, I'm sure IT is nothing more than a little ego booster and not meant to be disrespectful) comments I do agree with Jim's Original Post. Whew! That was a long-... double-.... sentence = confusing. No offense Azure or Lu, I just think it's all a bit comical.
As I said I agree with Jim's point of view. I've done it myself but I admit I take my own logic for granted. That is, people should know when they ask advice from forum members that what they'll receive are general opinions, self experience, and not documented fact unless it's referenced.
I sometimes fail to remember that when starting out with ecigs the excitement level is very high. It's kind of like a new lover, you just want to do 'em and worry about the complicated stuff later. Ok, that was probably a bit over the top but I think you get the meaning. When people are excited about something they only hear what they want to hear - usually.
We could be clearer in what we say. Stating something is of our own opinion and experience is a good idea. It offers the reader a logical understanding that everything is not the same for everyone. It also fosters one to do a little more research.
Personally I find this difficult to do because I get bored easily with repetitive stuff. So I think I'll just update my signature. I obviously know that what I say is of my own opinion and truth. Unless, of course, I reference a resource. Then the burden of truth sleeps with the originator.
Hmmm... That sounds good. I think I'll use it.
As I said I agree with Jim's point of view. I've done it myself but I admit I take my own logic for granted. That is, people should know when they ask advice from forum members that what they'll receive are general opinions, self experience, and not documented fact unless it's referenced.
I sometimes fail to remember that when starting out with ecigs the excitement level is very high. It's kind of like a new lover, you just want to do 'em and worry about the complicated stuff later. Ok, that was probably a bit over the top but I think you get the meaning. When people are excited about something they only hear what they want to hear - usually.
We could be clearer in what we say. Stating something is of our own opinion and experience is a good idea. It offers the reader a logical understanding that everything is not the same for everyone. It also fosters one to do a little more research.
Personally I find this difficult to do because I get bored easily with repetitive stuff. So I think I'll just update my signature. I obviously know that what I say is of my own opinion and truth. Unless, of course, I reference a resource. Then the burden of truth sleeps with the originator.
Hmmm... That sounds good. I think I'll use it.
i believe those that truely want this to work for them will read and reaserch because this is expensive and time consuming. I want to know how comfortable ya'll are with recommendations to friends and loved ones. I just can't seem to help my self and have already been accused of vaping being my new lover. how ever i know there is really no real hard science yet. So what...use at your own risk?????
I'll tell you what's a pet peeve of mine...when someone recommends an expensive unit to a newb as their first ecig (and I'm not being partial here...I'm talking about the SD, the KB, the Prodigy...and any others that may be around).
I look at it this way. A newb is just starting out....why should they start out with something they may not even like in the long run? Shouldn't they at least be given the opportunity to try a cheaper device just to see what it's about, and kind of get their "feet wet"?
I mean, I started with a cheapo $10 usb passthrough from Beci....then went to a penstyle kit...then dropped some bigger bucks on ones I wanted to try from there. To me, that's a natural progression.
And let's face it...regardless if someone spends $150 on their first device or not, they are probably going to get a second one anyway (anyone here only own one ecig?). So why not let the newbs have the chance to experiment with something less expensive until they get the hang of things, then "move up" if they so choose?
So when the "experienced" users here suggest any of the expensive models to the newbs as a starter, it really makes me cringe because the newbs are taking their advice as gospel.
So please...give the newbs a break! Suggest a $50 popular kit that will help them get broken into vaping rather than having them spend $150 on something just because you think it's the best thing since sliced bread!
OK, end of rant
Lu
I look at it this way. A newb is just starting out....why should they start out with something they may not even like in the long run? Shouldn't they at least be given the opportunity to try a cheaper device just to see what it's about, and kind of get their "feet wet"?
I mean, I started with a cheapo $10 usb passthrough from Beci....then went to a penstyle kit...then dropped some bigger bucks on ones I wanted to try from there. To me, that's a natural progression.
And let's face it...regardless if someone spends $150 on their first device or not, they are probably going to get a second one anyway (anyone here only own one ecig?). So why not let the newbs have the chance to experiment with something less expensive until they get the hang of things, then "move up" if they so choose?
So when the "experienced" users here suggest any of the expensive models to the newbs as a starter, it really makes me cringe because the newbs are taking their advice as gospel.
So please...give the newbs a break! Suggest a $50 popular kit that will help them get broken into vaping rather than having them spend $150 on something just because you think it's the best thing since sliced bread!
OK, end of rant
Lu
Ah... but a view from the other side of the table:
Within my first three weeks of vaping, I bought a 901 (based on 'newbie' recommendations) an 801, a mini-pipe, an e-cigar, and then my Screwdriver. If I'd started with the Screwdriver, I wouldn't have bought all the other ones, as they pretty much sit in my desk drawer now. The SD has been my only vaping device since it's arrival, and that position hasn't been threatened until the introduction of the Prodigy.
I would have appreciated someone spelling out the advantages of the SD (and now, any of the big battery mod-type PV's) when I was starting out. Could have saved a little cash.
So I guess it goes both ways...
Within my first three weeks of vaping, I bought a 901 (based on 'newbie' recommendations) an 801, a mini-pipe, an e-cigar, and then my Screwdriver. If I'd started with the Screwdriver, I wouldn't have bought all the other ones, as they pretty much sit in my desk drawer now. The SD has been my only vaping device since it's arrival, and that position hasn't been threatened until the introduction of the Prodigy.
I would have appreciated someone spelling out the advantages of the SD (and now, any of the big battery mod-type PV's) when I was starting out. Could have saved a little cash.
So I guess it goes both ways...
And a view from the middle of the table . . .
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.
Give the two most popular options for newcomers (right now I'd see that as the 901 and the 510), and then give a bit of information on the more powerful mods, but making it clear that they don't look or handle like a cigarette or a pen.
I love my SD, and it is still my go-to device (although my JantyStick is right there in the running), but honestly, I don't know if my switch from smoking to vaping would have been nearly as successful if I had started off with a mod. I think for some folks, there's value in starting off with something that kind of sort of resembles an analog in terms of size and shape.
I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.
Give the two most popular options for newcomers (right now I'd see that as the 901 and the 510), and then give a bit of information on the more powerful mods, but making it clear that they don't look or handle like a cigarette or a pen.
I love my SD, and it is still my go-to device (although my JantyStick is right there in the running), but honestly, I don't know if my switch from smoking to vaping would have been nearly as successful if I had started off with a mod. I think for some folks, there's value in starting off with something that kind of sort of resembles an analog in terms of size and shape.
I agree with Walrus on this one. Had I bought the Screwdriver first, I would have save a bunch of money. As an initial recommendation to a beginner though I think the best suggestion may be a compromise between the two positions; I would suggest a cheap disposable cigar or e-cig. That is enough to see if they think it would work and then buy a Screwdriver or another "Big battery, doesn't have to look like a cigarette so it actually works..." e-cig. I may be the only one but I can't stand the battery management of "normal" e-cigs.
Well, I don't argue that the expensive devices are good products (people used to rant about their KBs)....but my point is....none of these are for everyone (as is evidenced by those who have sold their SDs and KBs).
I guess my point is...I think most newbs would be satisfied with something less expensive to start out with (I see a lot of members rave about the 510 although I don't own one myself....and it comes in both manual and auto battery.....just sounds like a good way for a newb to become familiar with the differences there...and refilling...atomizer life...etc...without spending $150 right off the bat).
So the day I see most people say they bought the SD or the KB, etc and they own no other ecig because it was so super satisfying....then I might say something different....but honestly, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. And even if they use say an 801 or 901 for backup, the point is...the more expensive models are not really the end all, be all of the whole vaping experience.
Based on that, I still say pushing the expensive models on the newbs is really not in their best interest. Just my opinion, of course!
(And this is coming from someone who has owned an SD, currently owns a KB....and is waiting for 3 Prodigy shells )
Lu
I guess my point is...I think most newbs would be satisfied with something less expensive to start out with (I see a lot of members rave about the 510 although I don't own one myself....and it comes in both manual and auto battery.....just sounds like a good way for a newb to become familiar with the differences there...and refilling...atomizer life...etc...without spending $150 right off the bat).
So the day I see most people say they bought the SD or the KB, etc and they own no other ecig because it was so super satisfying....then I might say something different....but honestly, I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. And even if they use say an 801 or 901 for backup, the point is...the more expensive models are not really the end all, be all of the whole vaping experience.
Based on that, I still say pushing the expensive models on the newbs is really not in their best interest. Just my opinion, of course!
(And this is coming from someone who has owned an SD, currently owns a KB....and is waiting for 3 Prodigy shells
)Lu
I usually say a 901 as the first e-cig , it's a simple ,easy to use and easy to sorce e-cig. Popular too , so plenty of advice for it .
Thing is, if new users were to spend big money on a SD or prodigy , will they truely realise the benefit of owning such a device without first knowing the shortcomings first hand of what being a generic e-cig user brings.
I wouldn't have started e-smoking if I was looking to spend £100 on my first try !!
Thing is, if new users were to spend big money on a SD or prodigy , will they truely realise the benefit of owning such a device without first knowing the shortcomings first hand of what being a generic e-cig user brings.
I wouldn't have started e-smoking if I was looking to spend £100 on my first try !!
I agree with both terms of thinking ....
Big Batt PV's have their place in the marketplace as do regular PV's. Each has their own set of advantages/disadvantages ... For a newbie starting out, *many* have their mind set on something that looks and feels like a real cig, and this is the main reason, a standard PV's would do best. Allowing the user to get in to the game cheap and experiment to see if vaping is for them.
Is it cheaper in the long run to start out with a big batt PV? Depends on who you ask, as there are arguments for both sides of the table. I feel, by going small first, you gain that knowledge and experience needed to be successful in the long run. If you find, you need something harder hitting that lasts long, you go with a big batt pv giving up the size advantage for power. If you find you prefer the smaller look and feel, and are content with how a normal pv works, this is right in your avenue because this is where you started. Either way, its a learning experience.
The moral of the story is it comes down to personal satisfaction. No doubt, a newbie would likely be overwhelmed by a big batt PV, and the last thing we want to do is put a bad taste in the mouth of a new user. With that said ... Unless someone is completely set on Big Batt PV's and doesn't mind spending the money to get started ... I would recommend a 901/401/510 to new users ...
Big Batt PV's have their place in the marketplace as do regular PV's. Each has their own set of advantages/disadvantages ... For a newbie starting out, *many* have their mind set on something that looks and feels like a real cig, and this is the main reason, a standard PV's would do best. Allowing the user to get in to the game cheap and experiment to see if vaping is for them.
Is it cheaper in the long run to start out with a big batt PV? Depends on who you ask, as there are arguments for both sides of the table. I feel, by going small first, you gain that knowledge and experience needed to be successful in the long run. If you find, you need something harder hitting that lasts long, you go with a big batt pv giving up the size advantage for power. If you find you prefer the smaller look and feel, and are content with how a normal pv works, this is right in your avenue because this is where you started. Either way, its a learning experience.
The moral of the story is it comes down to personal satisfaction. No doubt, a newbie would likely be overwhelmed by a big batt PV, and the last thing we want to do is put a bad taste in the mouth of a new user. With that said ... Unless someone is completely set on Big Batt PV's and doesn't mind spending the money to get started ... I would recommend a 901/401/510 to new users ...
And this is part of my point too. When I first started looking, outside of the recommended 901/801, the KB was pretty popular....and so many gadgets with it! I must have looked at that thing 100 times a day...lol
But really, my "logical side' took over and said to start small, see if you like it first. I mean, there's a lot more to vaping than just, well, vaping!
After trying the penstyle, I realized that someday I would probably own a KB. Then I found 2 on classifieds for $75 each...and that is where I landed.
Although I don't use them much now, I would never give up my KB....it will always be my "backup". But I got rid of the SD mainly because I didn't like the manual switch on the bottom. I find manual switches where I can use my thumb suit me much better....but how would I know that if I didn't at least try something else first?
It's really not so much about promoting the SD that I have the problem with....it's when a newb asks "what should I try first?" and the "SD fans" follow with no mention of anything else that might also be reasonable to start with. Newbs second post "where can I get one of those?"
I guess I'm just saying they should at least be given options....with both the upsides and downsides of both....then they can decide if they want to shell out $50 or $150 to start.
Lu
So why didn't you just say this about 10 minutes ago...and save me some serious typing?
Oh, but that brings me to another point. I (personally) don't think the "powerhitters" are necesssarily the best device for newbs either. I mean, how many come on and say they smoke 1/2 to 1 pack a day? They really might be quite satisfied with one of the models mentioned above than one of the more powerful ones that cost 2-3 times more. Guess I'm just talking options, is all.
Lu
Lu
So why didn't you just say this about 10 minutes ago...and save me some serious typing?
Oh, but that brings me to another point. I (personally) don't think the "powerhitters" are necesssarily the best device for newbs either. I mean, how many come on and say they smoke 1/2 to 1 pack a day? They really might be quite satisfied with one of the models mentioned above than one of the more powerful ones that cost 2-3 times more. Guess I'm just talking options, is all.
Lu
Lu
LOL ... Very true ... But we all know how the vaping game works ... Whether you smoke 5 cigs a day or 60 cigs a day, once vaping, you tend to do it MUCH more
Its like quicksand! Soon, you need to own every ecig on the block, just to feel *Accepted* ... Your nic intake starts rising, and before you know it, you're at 36mg I started as 0 and now have myself landed at 16mg ... damn eliquid
That is a real good point. You really have to qualify a persons probable use to be able to recommend a PV that suits their needs. The recommendation for a 1/2 pack a day smoker versus a 1 & 1/2 a pack a day smoker would be completely different.
What would be ideal would be that the newbie views Spikey's intro video and then reads all the sticky posts in the New Members forum.
That would indeed clear up a lot of the redundant help I'm new what do you recommend posts.
I've found 9 times out of 10 that the newbie hasn't even glanced at these valuable posts before asking for help. I think most often that they don't realize these posts are there for them.
That would indeed clear up a lot of the redundant help I'm new what do you recommend posts.
I've found 9 times out of 10 that the newbie hasn't even glanced at these valuable posts before asking for help. I think most often that they don't realize these posts are there for them.
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