A good friend of mine has the ipv4 and we tried to use the temp control mod we did a 15 wrap dual spaced coil for the first build. and it was a good experience. I am looking to go ahead and pick up a temperature control device but i would like to know more about the builds. I have been using kanthal for a few years now I don't really mess with nichrome or other wires is there a build that will give me a similar hit to a kanthal build?
Thoughts on Temperature control
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Pbusardo's big video on temperature control/the Evolv devices (from almost a year ago now) explains it pretty damn well, I'd recommend watching it if you have time.
But in summary, different wires have different resistances per foot. For example, 28 gauge Kanthal is .44 ohms per inch. 28 gauge Nichrome is .33 ohms per inch. Neither of these wires are really suitable for temperature control devices (also, if you're building with Nichrome, the alloy composition is very important). People generally recommend Nichrome for lower-ohm builds. There's also a ton of off-shoots of various alloys and metals that are being used for non-TC builds. I stick to good old A1 Kanthal.
I digress.. the dealio with temp control devices is that they require nickel wire or Titanium wire, as some people are using these days, to accurately estimate the temperature. Nickel wire is special in that as the temperature goes up, so does the resistance. The device can use the change in resistance to figure out the temperature, and thus, limit the temperature by pulsing the coil until it gets to a certain resistance, then backing down, etc..
You could definitely imitate a "Kanthal build hit" with a nickel build. The primary difference is that the device will sense when the coils are getting too hot (usually indicative of a dry wick) and back down. With a non-TC device, as you may know, that doesn't happen at all. The device will keep givin' the juice until you let go of the button. As I mentioned earlier, I recommend the Pbusardo video. He pushes the temp control capabilities to their limit by literally trying to burn the wick. He proves that it can happen, but it's far harder than on a non-TC device.
And just as an aside, I prefer non-TC devices, but I have picked up other people's devices and only after getting a few super consistent hits do I say, "Is this a temp control mod?"
Anyway, hope that helps in 8000 words or less.
ETA: The reason I mentioned the resistance per foot thing at the beginning.. Nickel wire is essentially "non-resistance" wire. By default (with no temperature applied) it has a crazy-low resistance, like .08 ohms per inch or something. For this reason, building a nickel coil implies it's going to be a low ohm build, and as a result, it's definitely not going to be usable on any non-TC device. Just so you know. People worry about amp limit, but the device is regulating the voltage to fit your temperature, so it's never actually going to pump out a full 5V to your .1 ohm nickel coil. Assuming the chip is working right, of course..
But in summary, different wires have different resistances per foot. For example, 28 gauge Kanthal is .44 ohms per inch. 28 gauge Nichrome is .33 ohms per inch. Neither of these wires are really suitable for temperature control devices (also, if you're building with Nichrome, the alloy composition is very important). People generally recommend Nichrome for lower-ohm builds. There's also a ton of off-shoots of various alloys and metals that are being used for non-TC builds. I stick to good old A1 Kanthal.
I digress.. the dealio with temp control devices is that they require nickel wire or Titanium wire, as some people are using these days, to accurately estimate the temperature. Nickel wire is special in that as the temperature goes up, so does the resistance. The device can use the change in resistance to figure out the temperature, and thus, limit the temperature by pulsing the coil until it gets to a certain resistance, then backing down, etc..
You could definitely imitate a "Kanthal build hit" with a nickel build. The primary difference is that the device will sense when the coils are getting too hot (usually indicative of a dry wick) and back down. With a non-TC device, as you may know, that doesn't happen at all. The device will keep givin' the juice until you let go of the button. As I mentioned earlier, I recommend the Pbusardo video. He pushes the temp control capabilities to their limit by literally trying to burn the wick. He proves that it can happen, but it's far harder than on a non-TC device.
And just as an aside, I prefer non-TC devices, but I have picked up other people's devices and only after getting a few super consistent hits do I say, "Is this a temp control mod?"
Anyway, hope that helps in 8000 words or less.
ETA: The reason I mentioned the resistance per foot thing at the beginning.. Nickel wire is essentially "non-resistance" wire. By default (with no temperature applied) it has a crazy-low resistance, like .08 ohms per inch or something. For this reason, building a nickel coil implies it's going to be a low ohm build, and as a result, it's definitely not going to be usable on any non-TC device. Just so you know. People worry about amp limit, but the device is regulating the voltage to fit your temperature, so it's never actually going to pump out a full 5V to your .1 ohm nickel coil. Assuming the chip is working right, of course..
I appreciate all the good information you have provided! I have always stayed with kanthal builds its just what im used to and have been using it so long that i don't care to try anything else but the idea of no dry hits is very appealing I am more then likely going to leave temp control at the tanks not going to try and mess too much into that world just yet.
I have an IPv4 and enjoy the vape I get off it. The most recent setup I've been using is 26ga titanium dual coil 7 wrap coming in at .16 ohms on my VT200. It is the most amazing vape I've had at about 60 to 70 watts. The IPv4 has the update to do titanium so if you got that you could run a similar build.
I don't have any temperature control devices myself plenty of regulated but never made the jump to temp control. I am debating if i want to make that jump i only have had experiences with it from other peoples mods that are kind enough to let me try them.
I try to refrain from being too wordy (and I fail), but I was also going to mention that before you delve headlong into TC building you can easily grab something like a SubTank and scoop some of the pre-built nickel coils (most of the other tanks are coming with pre-built nickel coils these days) and you'd be able to experience TC without the hassle of purchasing all new wire and getting good at building with it.
Granted, you'd still need a TC device, but things like the Sig75 are going for pretty cheap these days, and they have the option of "power mode" (ie: not TC).
I would definitely agree with that. Getting prebuilt coils will give you a good idea if temp control is something you would want to pursue further
Yeah i am looking at the sig150w tc for my first temp device i love my other sigs so i figured why not. when i do this i just want to know if i should be getting prepared for TC or not. I am just going to go with the safe bet and get Ni coils for my TFV4 (this is the only tank that i have lol)
I was looking at the sig 150 for a while and seems to get good reviews. And the tfv4 will definitely give you a good experience in tc with their ni200 coils.
yeah i enjoy it very much now and i have not been willing to shell out the 100$ for the sig yet im waiting til around christmas..... seeing if my gf loves me lol
I'm lucky that my wife supports my vaping hobby. She enjoys seeing the new toys I get even though she sometimes questions why I need quite so many. It's turned into a real good thing in my life. I've helped a lot of my friends to get started vaping and they now love it.
I have an Asolo 200W Mod Box that does a "dry hit protection" on A1 Kanthal wire... most will say that this is not "true temp control"... blah blah blah... While this is a true statement... Most do not truly realize that none of the Mods out right now are "true temp control"... NO ONE IS actually measuring temp with a thermal couple... They are using the Resistance Property , or known rate of resistance change of Ni/Ti to "calculate what the temp is.... think of it like this... If you where judging how fast you are going in a car by looking at the Tachometer and knowing what gear you are in to figure out what your Speedometer is reading. Yes it gets you to the same point, but it is not the same thing/method as looking at the Speedometer to get your speed...
If you get what I am saying above... then you can see why I say that no one to date is actually measuring the actual temp... they are just measure the voltage drop, and know that to get that drop, the temp must be at this temp because that is the only way the Ni wire would have changed it's Resistance to value "X". The coil has to be at Value "X" because we see a Voltage of "Y".
This works just fine, and it does get the job done... but it is not actually reading the temp of the coil... no little leprechaun seating inside with a inferred thermal couple has ever been put in any mod...
Now from what I can tell, this BoxMod (the Asolo 200W TC) does Ni/Ti the same as everyone else... basically some form/function of this type of calculation to Ni and Ti wire...
>>>>Next<<<< does it work on Kanthal???? the answer seems to be Yes.... and does just fine as long as you don't go crazy on your builds... (Or reverse bias/short out your 510 pin).... Is it "temp control" in the same way that Ni and Ti is done... NO... NO it is not... BUT... It does do something that no one else has done so far... They are Monitoring the juice in the wick on Kanthal... and when that "juice" dries up, or starts to burn off faster than the wick can pull it in from the tank... they are backing down and controlling the wattage to keep you (the user) from overheating the coil and thus burning the cotton...
It is a great Idea... and they are actually pulling this off... no joke...
Is it "temp control???"... NO... but it does keep or at least extremely help the user to "NOT BURN COTTON" (ie... get dry hits)... And that is really the purpose of going over to a Temp Control Box anyway...
I have one... and I actually love it, and think monitoring the "juice level" is a smarter thing to do than trying to see the temp of the coil... why... (glad you asked...lol)
if you watch the temp... then it has to reach the temp before "I can see it is too hot" and need to back off... by then, I have already started to burn the cotton... unless I set my temp below the temp that cotton burns in the first place... even If I do that... (set below burn temp)... my box is still reacting to the "temp (or calculated temp)" of the coil... where as if I monitor the juice... my box will cut the power before it allows the coil to heat up a dry wick... This may not seem like a big difference in theory, but if you actually understand that the coils temp is already (in every single mod known to man) already being regulated by the fact that juice is cooling it off as you vape (ie.. heat flux),... then you should be able to see that looking and controlling the wattage based on what the juice is doing is actually a much more "pro-active" method than watching "temp"...
look at it this way... A pot of water on the stove will rise in temp as you put a flame under it... the rate it goes up is based on the size of the heat source... but once that pot of water starts to boil... the temp will not get any hotter... because the water turns to steam... and the water left in the pot is just a little bit cooler and has not turned to steam yet.... as long as I have an endless supply of water... the temp will stay the same... regardless of how big a flame I put under it... or how long I leave it there.... this is heat flux in a simple explanation... Not what do you thing the pot's temp doing in this explanation??? yep... staying the same... because the water it "holding it there"... BUT... if I don't have an unlimited supply of water... and the pot is allowed to boil off all the water it had... what do you think will happen to the temp of the pot???? yep... it goes up... how much??? depends on the size of the flame.... cause there is no water to "hold the temp" of the pot to "X"....
If you get all of this... then you should be able to see that the coil is doing the same thing as the pot from above... and that the "juice" is acting like the water in the pot from above... So to me, a Box that stops me from burning up and overheating my "pot" when it is out of water, is actually a much smarter way to keep me safe... ???
OK>... sorry that got so long... but could not think of a shorter way to explain with out coming off as a jerk know it all...
p.s. I just saw an Asolo 200W going for 100$ on ebay right now.... if you or anyone is interested...
Yeah I say tc because it's what has become the standard. I get what you mean that it is just using the resistance and the tcr along with your selected temp and wattage to get you where you want. It's funny you say using your tachometer and gear to know how fast your going. That's how I tell how fast my wrangler is going. Lol
that made a lot of sense actually. thanks for the info i have never heard it put that way before and i will be on the look for that box!
And the Asolo did interest me but I pulled the trigger on the VT200 and I'm in love. Having the preheat and all that power is simply amazing. Nevermind all the other fun things to do in escribe. Glad you like the Asolo i hope one of my friends will grab one so I can try it out.
I'm glad that it helped... again, sorry for the long post...
just do a look up on ebay for Asolo 200w
iJoy Asolo 200W Black Temp Control Box Mod 5W 200W Batteries not Included | eBay
I'm going to go 'against the grain' here and suggest that if your already building your own coils, the cost of a spool of 28awg Ni200 ain't much and can give you a much better experience than factory made coils.
I keep hearing that some of the factory coils are "hit or miss" - sometimes they work well and other times - well not so much. I've only had experience with the VaporShark Nautilus and Atlantis pre-builts along with some (very little) Kanger and aftermarket coils. I've not really had any issues with the pre-builts but would rather just wrap my own.
The inconsisticy and low service live of factory coils is what steered me to RTA's and TC in the 1st place.
I keep hearing that some of the factory coils are "hit or miss" - sometimes they work well and other times - well not so much. I've only had experience with the VaporShark Nautilus and Atlantis pre-builts along with some (very little) Kanger and aftermarket coils. I've not really had any issues with the pre-builts but would rather just wrap my own.
The inconsisticy and low service live of factory coils is what steered me to RTA's and TC in the 1st place.
Same for me ever since I went through the first 5 pack of subtank and Atlantis coils I just rebuild them all. Now I can make titanium coils and twisted ni200 coils and they seem to last atleast as long if not longer then pre made coils. And I feel a little safer knowing what went into them.
I managed to snag a deal on an Evic VT so I bought a few pre-made TC coils for my Subtank mini and Starre tank just to experiment. Liked it enough to also purchase some Sweet Spot titanium and I've made a few builds for the Subtank and now I'm experimenting with TC on one of my Kayfun V4s. I
temperture control or "burn prevention" if you prefer, on kanthal is worth waiting for.
the problem with the 'temperature control' devices that only do it with nickel and titanium etc, is that you have to use very low ohm coils
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