FDA Game changer? - "Relax ... it's a ___ NJOY!" (NJOY to make a non-cigAlike/advanced system with a tank?)

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aikanae1

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We are so opposite that it's funny. TG for clones. I view them as another developmental path since it's rare to find one close to 1:1 which would be a counterfiet. There are times the clone is better than the original. Most people use the cheaper knockoffs to see if they like an idea / style before buying. Without them, a number of features probably wouldn't have been discovered or refined.

There is so much wrong with BT. They are already attempting mergers. They get their hands on this market then we will be down to maybe 3 mega business if not by regulation, then by business practice. It's mind boggling how fast this industry has evolved even within the past couple of years. I'd like to see that continue. If BT gets involved it won't. They do patent wars. devices get stuck sorta like cell phones. We'll never see what the asian market has available. You could say the tea party is BC = big corporation.

I don't see vaping ever becoming one (and the same) as BT, though possibly could if BT changes to BN. For now, they make a product that many (millions) of vapers despise. Even if all other vaping gear was magically regulated out of existence (in some fairytale world), these same people would not suddenly like BT and BT's vaping gear. Some might, most would not. In that hypothetical world, I believe all despisers would quit vaping cold turkey and live happily ever after.

But BT is a very large industry within American economy and because they 'know nicotine,' they have reason to be in the vaping industry. Good reason. I can somewhat understand that if you are in place of 'hating BT and everything they stand for' that you'd carry that over to hating all their BV products, just cause of how prejudice works. Or I can (more) understand how after trying really nice independent vaping gear and then trying/comparing that to BT vaping gear, you'd conclude that BT deserves no respect in terms of quality with their available resources.

But challenging to understand how BT is inherently evil as if that is not strictly biased opinion. Challenging to understand how you don't think 'big money' will be beneficial to all the businesses that, collectively, are growing into tens of millions of users. It is fascinating to me that BT is hated more for their role in the industry than the thieves who steal and distribute clones. Clones aren't 'independent do-gooders.' I realize that's debatable, but I bring it up, cause there are a bunch of things in the unregulated market that exists to date whereby lots of players of all sorts of sizes and creeds can be involved and really is up to the buyer, and not anything else.

I truly believe having BT in vaping industry offers them a sense of redemption, especially with where vaping could go / is predicted to go. For sure, it offers them another opportunity to manipulate product, deceive customers and bribe politicians/scientists to agree that there way is good for everyone, but I truly think BT learned that lesson, and is still getting beaten up daily (in an over zealous way) by so many resources, that it would literally be suicidal to think it might just work the next time if they try it again.

I think any business sitting down with regulators for more than 2 minutes, is going to present regulators with their version of 'reasonable regulations.' Both BT and BV have done this, and thus far based on proposed regulations, it appears to screw the little guy. At same time, if it was little guy (with legitimate shop) and me making product in my bathtub, and we were both at a local town hall meeting deciding on the future of distribution in the community, I'm thinking this 'little guy' would screw me left and right based on my methods which don't match their fancy schmancy ways of doing business. Even while I am outselling them before regulations go into place. Even while my service is actually better. Nature of the game when money and politics is involved. Why do we have a thread about "where is the outcry from vendors" and another thread with CASAA member taking time to squarely address all vendors, if these independent vendors are soooo wonderful for the vaping community? Fact is, we have some vendors that are dedicated to long term distribution, some that provide excellent customer service, and many others that realize this industry is selling a hot commodity and with a little business sense, a profit can surely be made.

To think all of little V is wonderful and helpful, while all of big V is evil and greedy, I find is out of touch with reality. Said it before and will say it again, you could remove all of current players that are Big V from the industry, and new players would quickly emerge as BV. All that is disdainful about BT/BV would be found in those same companies. Many of which are squarely little V right now, and are arguably being of enormous help to the cause.

Nature of the beast.
 

Gato del Jugo

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BV = NJoy, VMR (V2), Mistic, Logic, Vapor Corp (Fifty-One, Krave, VaporX, Alternacig, EZ Smoker, Green Puffer, Americig, Fumaré, Hookah Stix, and Smoke Star brands)...?

I'd probably throw in a pre-acquired blu ($135 million purchase price in 2012) & Green Smoke ($110 mil purchase price in 2014)...
 

Jman8

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We are so opposite that it's funny. TG for clones. I view them as another developmental path since it's rare to find one close to 1:1 which would be a counterfiet.

Clones are a form of counterfeit.

I've come to terms with clones as I realize they will be made/bought regardless of what I think of that argument, and will guarantee the black market has opportunity for innovation.

There is so much wrong with BT. They are already attempting mergers. They get their hands on this market then we will be down to maybe 3 mega business if not by regulation, then by business practice. It's mind boggling how fast this industry has evolved even within the past couple of years. I'd like to see that continue. If BT gets involved it won't. They do patent wars. Devices get stuck sorta like cell phones. We'll never see what the asian market has available. You could say the tea party is BC = big corporation.

You are saying there is much wrong with BT and then make points that are speculative. IMO, your acknowledgment of clones prevents what you are saying BT can do to the market. BT may be very powerful, but not powerful enough to take down China's cloning industry. And BT currently co-exists with all other vaping manufacturers, and is doing pretty well. If BT is so pro regulation as they are currently written, then why would they seek extension to the comment period? Oh wait, I think I know proper response to that, "because that's just for show. They are in full cahoots with FDA and the extension period was a farce to swindle the public into thinking FDA might do something different from what BT is telling FDA to do with these regulations." Sound about right?
 

Gato del Jugo

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To think all of little V is wonderful and helpful, while all of big V is evil and greedy, I find is out of touch with reality. Said it before and will say it again, you could remove all of current players that are Big V from the industry, and new players would quickly emerge as BV. All that is disdainful about BT/BV would be found in those same companies. Many of which are squarely little V right now, and are arguably being of enormous help to the cause.

I'd like to point out that while perhaps BV isn't a 100% ally, as they are competitors of LV & have their own agenda, as well, they do have the motivation & resources to sometimes sit alongside us in this fight, as evidenced by the recent CA AB 1500 hearing (watch the video!)...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-appropriations-committee-over-ab-1500-a.html
 

Bobbilly

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Mar 27, 2014
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Clones are a form of counterfeit.

I've come to terms with clones as I realize they will be made/bought regardless of what I think of that argument, and will guarantee the black market has opportunity for innovation.



You are saying there is much wrong with BT and then make points that are speculative. IMO, your acknowledgment of clones prevents what you are saying BT can do to the market. BT may be very powerful, but not powerful enough to take down China's cloning industry. And BT currently co-exists with all other vaping manufacturers, and is doing pretty well. If BT is so pro regulation as they are currently written, then why would they seek extension to the comment period? Oh wait, I think I know proper response to that, "because that's just for show. They are in full cahoots with FDA and the extension period was a farce to swindle the public into thinking FDA might do something different from what BT is telling FDA to do with these regulations." Sound about right?

well BT / FDA have to put in the show to look convincing. They have a playbook to guide them
 

Bobbilly

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 27, 2014
327
423
Canada
Clones are a form of counterfeit.

I've come to terms with clones as I realize they will be made/bought regardless of what I think of that argument, and will guarantee the black market has opportunity for innovation.



You are saying there is much wrong with BT and then make points that are speculative. IMO, your acknowledgment of clones prevents what you are saying BT can do to the market. BT may be very powerful, but not powerful enough to take down China's cloning industry. And BT currently co-exists with all other vaping manufacturers, and is doing pretty well. If BT is so pro regulation as they are currently written, then why would they seek extension to the comment period? Oh wait, I think I know proper response to that, "because that's just for show. They are in full cahoots with FDA and the extension period was a farce to swindle the public into thinking FDA might do something different from what BT is telling FDA to do with these regulations." Sound about right?

well BT / FDA have to put in the show to look convincing. They have a playbook to guide them
 

DC2

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