UK - Disposable vapes are set to be banned as part of plans to tackle the rising number of young people taking up vaping

[Richard Winter]

From what I've heard, legal importers brought in illegal disposables of stronger nic strength, and distributed them to the chains, nothing can be said other than that they are hellishly stupid.

The only way to stop this is regular inspections of the shops. Those who are serious certainly want shop inspections so they can get rid of those who sell illegal goods and to the children.

Of course, incompetent politicians take the youth trick, it always sells well in the mass media.
They did that with us too, when 20% of the young people had tried disposables, the end result was a flavor ban.

As with most things it's the media and hype that cause all these problems. Our government have come under pressure to do something and as always they are being blinded by false data.

We have existing laws in place making it illegal to sell vapes to under 18's and a 20mg nic limit plus all the TPD restrictions but enforcing that doesnt really happen so how they intend to enforce new laws will be interesting.

 

[Richard Winter]

As with most things,the actions of the minority make it hell for the majority.

 

[Darksand]

Agree they are doing it because they think that's what the public wants. Like most the media blow everything out of proportion and the propaganda around vaping is a load of lies.

Here in the UK the government is also making a big move to tackle smoking too. You mention cigarettes are on every street corner but unfortunately so are disposables and there lies the problem. The majority of them are illegal imports.

First part, no, They want vaping gone and word it like this so nobody can disagree. They don't think people want this, they know people want vapes, they want vapes dead from the start. There was a lot of news and action on normal cigarettes, but nothing like how they attack vapes now. They are loosing too much money, the only thing that counts.

Maybe it is different now, i will ask around, but a couple of years ago, i could not easy get a vape from a shop or tankstation, Not like cigarettes

 

[Darksand]

incompetent politicians.....how incompetent are they if their plan works?

Don't underestimate any of them, they know how to do impossible things.

Just think about this, the solution to smoking, A product that is ATLEAST 95% less harmful than smoking. And they pretty far restricting access to these while smokes are still available.

I cannot get my brand ejuice or my brand device. But within 5 minutes, i can have my brand of cigarettes.

 

[Richard Winter]

incompetent politicians.....how incompetent are they if their plan works?

Don't underestimate any of them, they know how to do impossible things.

Just think about this, the solution to smoking, A product that is ATLEAST 95% less harmful than smoking. And they pretty far restricting access to these while smokes are still available.

I cannot get my brand ejuice or my brand device. But within 5 minutes, i can have my brand of cigarettes.

Well it just goes to show that time and time again we see this being actioned around the world and the only reasons we can see this is happening is because of corruption on the part of the governments and their local authorities.

 

[dog man]

Stupid is as stupid does.

 

[Primopuo]

Frustrating.
My Vehicles carbon footprint is destroying the planet? Fill that vehicle to the brim with disposables and it would likely take a year in this country (maybe a half year in a subcompact) and then I'll send it out to the crusher.
Teens vaping? Are they allowing it below age 18? If they are vaping are they ingesting nic? (very few do and most opt for 0%). So they;re emitting a vapor? Dangerous? (NOT).

Where do these A-ho's get off with their sense of control over our lives?
Why don't we straight out fight back and blow vapor up their snout while reaming them out for their stupidity?
It's not that hard folks, Stand Your ground and be heard.

Everytime I hear people say that we live in a "Democracy " I say Bull....-!
In a Democracy people get to be heard and vote!
Not these elected officials to just come stepping in saying NO, you cant-!
The best one are the states whom have flavor bans, you can only buy tobacco flavored ejuices..this is how ignorant they are, well idiots I hate to break it to you, but, TOBACCO IS A FLAVOR-!!!

 

[ppeeble]

And now for the clincher... UK Govnmnt to tax vaping - £1 per 10ml of liquid if nicotine-free rising to £3 per 10ml if over 11mg of nicotine.
The reasoning ? To discourage under-age vaping (even though every other 'report' states children are using disposables so would probably never have bought liquid in their lives).
Most value brands of nicotine containing liquid can be bought for around £1-£2 presently and a 100ml of nicotine-free liquid for around £10-£14. A wholly disproportionate tax for no other reason than to raise revenue from a soft demographic.
Though, in the spirit of fairness and balance, the government has decreed to raise tax on cigarettes so they remain a more expensive option. Can't say fairer than that

 

[Richard Winter]

And now for the clincher... UK Govnmnt to tax vaping - £1 per 10ml of liquid if nicotine-free rising to £3 per 10ml if over 11mg of nicotine.
The reasoning ? To discourage under-age vaping (even though every other 'report' states children are using disposables so would probably never have bought liquid in their lives).
Most value brands of nicotine containing liquid can be bought for around £1-£2 presently and a 100ml of nicotine-free liquid for around £10-£14. A wholly disproportionate tax for no other reason than to raise revenue from a soft demographic.
Though, in the spirit of fairness and balance, the government has decreed to raise tax on cigarettes so they remain a more expensive option. Can't say fairer than that

I think it's a very well thought out plan by the government to put all the focus on protecting our youths when in reality it has and always will be about the money.
An estimated £10 billion is lost from the cigarette tax review each year from the 5 million vapers in the UK.
From what I understand the increase in tax on cigarette is minor compared to the tax being introduced on vaping. Think its 40 pence on a packet of 20, just enough to not deter smokers from packing up.

 

[dog man]

Over time we here in the US have watched a pack of cigs go from $/25c a pack to it's current high of between $4.00 to $8,50 a pack (higher in the Big Cities.).
Considering a pack of Cigs with delivery to their oultlts actually costs $.50-75c a pack it's obvious it's being Fee'd Taxed and priced smokers near out of the markets. It worked and got many smokers off the cigs and over to alternatives of Patches, Gums Vape and other Nic sources.
NOW we have another battle on our hands. Since they think they did well with Cig's and their revenues fell to nearly dirt., lets try to go after Vaping to re-coup.
Problem is they're using the Children as a reasoning. Funny part though is it's rare for Kids to use a Nic laden fluid in their (generally) disposables. So how can You control 0 Nic? Ya Cant!
Here they've limited our Nic consumption to 6%. I vape 16 to 18%.. What do I do? I mix and add Nic as needed, I can buy 0 nic and add to what I want.. Nicotine, in it's raw or diluted form (pg mix) is not a restricted fluid to be purchased.
If all breaks down These Gov't Entities are not after the delivery equipment. (Batteries and cartridges).
Thus we end up in a Black Market like is also being done in the Cig Community.
Ya see, , Smokers are either making their own or buying across State and County lines to save $$$'s. Many also visit the Indian Res's where the tax is minimal or not at all.

We are likely going to be in a similar scenario and mixing as well as making our own Juice.

I have friends in the Moonshine Business up here in the North Carolina Mountains. They know not to sell it or they'll have ATF on em... So they do barter or get paid under the table.
Are we headed that direction? Only option is to Vote Out These A-Ho's who are doing these things to us.

 

[Tor R]

The first thing you Brits need to do is to shine a light on those who sell illegally, preferably to minors.
The input you are going to send to all MPs, you must demand that the illegal market is tackled, while at the same time that the nation is served by the original legal market being a good one in terms of health

 

[dog man]

Good point Tor R..
Only one disagreement. What is deemed illegal and who supported it being so in the first place. Generally these laws are set up by someone wanting control.. wether it be for profits or agenda driven.

 

[Tor R]

Good point Tor R..
Only one disagreement. What is deemed illegal and who supported it being so in the first place. Generally these laws are set up by someone wanting control.. wether it be for profits or agenda driven.

Illegal is what is brought in that breaks British rules, sold to minors breaks the law. When a shop is raided, the authorities cannot do much because the owner does not have the correct residential address, etc etc

 

[dog man]

Do they also restrict 0 nic options too Kids?
There needs to be a point of sanity since the larger % of Kids vaping are not using a Nic product. It's just a "look cool'' product to most youth.
Thus what's the harm?

 

[Tor R]

I can only say what I have been told, it is littered with disposables, and very many of them have held too large a quantity and too high a nic strength according to British law.
Many small shop owners who don't care about selling to minors either.

I do not at all agree with how the authorities want to tax the product

 

[dog man]

That brings up another point on the Nic. Here we are now restricted to 6mg... Most disposables are at 0- 3 or 6mg.. It's near impossible to get addicted over a number of years at those levels. Totally impossible at 0 nic (which the bulk of Young vapers are going to)
I vape 16-18mg and have to add that nic to equate to the cigs I'm giving up.

Ya see, someone decided (unstudied) that a 3 to 6mg was still "Harming Kids".. and even at 0mg. it's still a harm... Really???
I call BS to that.
To me, the biggest harm to any of the options over the counter are the flavors since many of them are artificial and we don't know what's in em.
But Gov't and Anti Smoking entities have made life hell on Us as a viable option to get off the Smoke.

The trash is a different thing and if people are that nasty to litter like Your saying...,,
Fine Em.

 

[Tor R]

The British have a nic limit of 20mg and they found large quantities of stronger nic in the raids and on the street.

They have a 2ml limit, the TPD law, and they find large quantities with a significantly higher level than this in raids and on the streets.

Parts of the vape industry are rotten, it is what it is.

I completely disagree with how they want to tax vape in the future though.

 

[dog man]

Interesting on the Nic levels. ..Quite a change from over here.
What happens is they 're driving everything into a Black Market.
Add further taxes to it, the Black Market grows to worse than it is.

It happened here in the US with Smoking. The prices rose, the Black Market brought in cigs from other locations to avoid taxes. I was buying cigs off the Indian Res at 1/2 cost. (Indians are not taxed and are their own Nation on the Res's in the US)
People crossed State lines to avoid some taxes and restrictions from smoking in Public Places. We smoked while we ate at Restaurants, where 20 miles away it was outlawed.
(difference in State rules)
Likewise the same thing with Moonshine. here in North Carolina.

 

[Tor R]

There is a difference from the US to the British. Technically, almost nothing vape is legal in the US.
For the British, most products are still legal, but along the way in recent years, many rather rotten shops have sold to minors, increased nic strength, 6000 puffs when the rule is 600, etc etc etc.
A few have ruined for many.
The politicians are simple idiots, when they first react with a ban on something, it always follows with a whole bunch of taxes and more restrictions.

In the background, the tobacco companies sit and rub their hands

 

[dog man]

Tor R.
Yeah, thus my point on Black Markets.,
IF the Politicians and ''goody two shoes'' entities would just leave us alone and stay out of our pockets, Life would be good... But they won't.

I disagree we here in the US are unable to get anything we want vis Vape oriented stuff.
The only restriction we have is in Nic levels, but there are ways around that.
I do buy much on the Internet, but there are at least 6 to 8 Vape/Tobacco stores within a 12 mile radius... and i live in the Backwoods Country. Add to that all of the Gas Stations selling disposables.
So we're good here...Still seeing the idiots trying to restrict us, but so far were Ok!