'Traditional' vaping to sub-ohm & back to 'traditional' vaping again!

[Drewps5co0tt]

Hey guys & gals;

My e-cigarette journey began in mid June of 2011, after quitting cigarettes cold turkey in the early morning hours of January 3, 2011. In December of 2010, my ENT found like a 1 or 2 mm red or white spot on one of my vocal cords during a routine exam and insisted that I stop smoking IMMEDIATELY and then scared the hell out of me with all kinds of horror stories about what kinds of horrible things cigarettes can do to your throat (I think it's safe to say that most of us (especially when we're younger) tend to forget that cigarette smoking can also kill you or alter your life forever via your throat as well! He wasn't crazy worried, before my appointment I had been doing a lot of coughing prior to coming in and he suspected it might have just been irritation but needed to be sure, so I agreed to stopping after the holidays. Thus, the date I picked was January 3, 2011, as mentioned above. In late January of 2011, I went back for him to check my vocal cords again and the spot was gone! I was relieved but agreed to push on and not start smoking again since I had gone over 3 weeks without, I really did not want to return to smoking.

For the next 6 months, I went through PURE HELL! My body never really stopped craving, although my pulmonologist (who I was seeing to try to stop smoking prior to all of this) insisted that there was no way I was still having nicotine cravings months after quitting, she agreed with me that there must be something else in the cigarettes that my body was lusting after, although she had no clue what it could have been. It was so bad that after being up for 4-6 hours everyday, I would have to take Xanax to knock the feeling of cravings out of me, I just felt ill all the time and did everything in my power to not cave and go back to smoking. Basically, I was high almost 24/7 on Xanax just to keep me calm and to relieve whatever the craving(s) it was that I was having, just to make it from day to day. It was just awful!

In early June of 2011, I returned and talked with my pulmonologist about trying e-cigarettes, it was either that or I was going to start smoking again at some point, I just couldn't take it anymore. She had no issues with me trying e-cigarettes to see if it would help me nor did any of my other doctors (they all said they would rather me use them than cigarettes). So in mid June of 2011, I bought my first e-cigarette kit (Blu), without nicotine although I was skeptical that this was going to work for me...I thought all the vids I was seeing on YouTube we're fake and that it wouldn't work for me when I received it in the mail. It sat on my bookcase for probably two weeks, before I finally opened the package up, charged everything up and gave it a whirl! It worked, I couldn't believe it, I was like this is the answer, this is going to keep me from returning to cigarettes! However, I was still missing that "buzz" hit so I talked with my doctors again about ordering my liquids with a low MG of nicotine in them, they had no issue with it and once I did I knew that this was the answer for me and off I went into e-cigarette land and here we are in mid 2019 and I'm still vaping, not a cigarette smoked since that day back on January 3, 2011!

Why am I telling you all of this when it's not really related to my topic? I dunno, I just felt like telling a story this morning! No seriously, I just wanted to share my journey and how I got into vaping.

Moving forward to the topic at hand...

From mid 2011 to mid 2015 I vaped traditionally (meaning anything above sub-ohm), I don't even remember when sub-ohm vaping first came out to be honest as I never paid much attention to it. I went from things like Blu, to ego kits, to Phiniac tanks/cartos then finally landed using the Nautilus Mini and Kanger Aerotank Mega for probably almost 2 years before diving into sub-ohm vaping. Why did I want to try sub-ohm vaping? Because it looked cool and I liked the fact that the draw was more open (less restriction) and airy and it sounded like something I'd enjoy. Boy did I enjoy it when I started!

From mid 2015 to the present, I switched from 'traditional' vaping to sub-ohm vaping completely (my first kit was a Kanger subtank mini kit...I forget the actual name of it now) but you all know what I'm talking about. Maybe it was the subbox...I dunno! I sold all of my 'traditional' vape gear (including my expensive ProVari mods) and never looked back! My sweet spot in the sub-ohm world has been using .5's...I just love them! Oh btw...I use 3MG nicotine, down from the 6MG I used when I vaped 'traditionally'.

Moving along...I have noticed over the 4 years that I've been sub-ohm vaping (not at first) but maybe over the past 2 or so years, that I seem to have a lot of side effects, that I didn't really have when I vaped 'traditionally'. I wake up and feel totally dehydrated (from the inside of my mouth all the way into my chest) yet I drink plenty of fluids during the day when I'm awake, my throat gets constantly irritated on a regular basis (I wake up and my throat feels fine and as soon I as I start taking drags my throat starts to bother me), etc...the list goes on and on but these are my general issues. I also feel like (at times) that if has affected my breathing (not constantly but occasionally), my last chest x-ray was in January of this year and all was fine. I have been to my speciality doctors (ENT, etc) many times, my throat is scoped, nothing is there, it looks great! I finally came to the decision a few weeks ago that enough was enough and I was going to return to 'traditional' vaping and move away from the sub-ohm world (I kinda wish I had never gotten into it in the first place) as I feel like I was looking for trouble when no trouble existed...but that's kinda my personality in general!

Let's be honest here, when we smoked cigarettes, we were not inhaling the amount of smoke into our bodies like we are doing when we inhale vapor from using sub-ohm setups. I thought about it for quite a while and decided that maybe the sub-ohm world was too much of a good thing and that maybe I should dial back what I was doing. I don't think anyone can really argue this point.

So I'm back to the old school gear, kinda sorta! I've picked up an old friend of mine (the Kanger Aerotank Mega which I loved using back in the day) and some updated Nautilus 2S tanks, coil heads are anywhere from 1.8 down to 1.2 ohms, although I've only been using my Nautilus tank with the 1.8 ohm coil so far...my other coils haven't arrived yet...they are still out in USPS land somewhere until early next week.

My issue is this: I know that 'traditional' vaping is restricted vaping, when comparing it to the sub-ohm world. I knew that I was going to have a problem adjusting to this, I will admit this right off the bat! It's been so long since I have vaped like this, that I kinda forgot what it really felt like to vape on MTL tanks and the restriction that you get/feel from it. When I'm taking drags on my Nautilus 2S tank, the draw feels much tighter in my mouth/throat and chest (which it should be I'm guessing) but I almost feel like because I'm drawing on something that is so much tighter than a sub-ohm draw, that I feel like I'm getting shortness of breath in my upper chest/lower throat area, as I get to the end of a draw/drag...if that makes any sense? I'm trying to remember if I felt this same thing before I got into the sub-ohm world but I honestly don't remember because back then, well I never had anything to compare it to. 'Traditional' vaping was the only vaping I had done so far, it's all I knew so whatever the feelings were that I had, I probably didn't pay any attention to it because like I said, I had nothing else to compare it to (except for maybe a cigarette) but I don't even remember what that feels like now (which is probably a good thing)!

So I wanted to know, is what I'm experiencing/feeling when taking drags/draws now normal? If so, will I get use to it again overtime? I'm hoping so! If anyone has other questions they want to ask, feel free to chime in and ask them and I'll do my best to answer them. If you read all of this and are now at the end, then I thank you for taking the time in reading my short, but lengthy post!

Thanks!

 

[Eskie]

Well, congrats on so many years without smoking. Going from a loose open draw with lots of cloud back to a mouth to lung tight draw can be confusing. I go back and forth between loose air and draw on my attys to a tight draw on a pod I use for convenience or stealth when out. It sound like you might be pulling too hard directly into your lung with this stuff out of habit. You almost have to remember the draw on a cigarette, into your mouth, then inhale. Otherwise it does feel like sucking on a straw. Sometimes you get so used to a loose draw it's hard to go back.

Remember, it not the resistance that matters, it's the airflow. Higher ohm builds can do better with lower airflow while lower ohm builds need lots of airflow to keep the coil cool enough you don't get an overly hot vape. All you can do is try to find a balance that works. Keep the airflow open and pay attention to how you're inhaling. Hopefully you'll settle back down into a pattern you like again.

 

[Baditude]

I could share a similar journey as yourself, but I'll spare everyone the details.

I firmly believe that we are addicted to more than just nicotine. There are all of those other toxic chemicals found in the smoke. We also can not ignore the hand-to-mouth behavior of smoking/vaping which is just as much a part of the addiction. My main addictive behavior was my need to "inhale/exhale" either smoke or vapor or I would develop a sort of anxiety until I could.

I began vaping MTL, low wattage (also with a Provari). At some point, like yourself, I became curious about sub-ohm vaping and higher wattage vaping. Working for a vape shop probably influenced that. My sweetspot has been 0.5 -0.6 ohm coils at around 30 watts. I've been at that point for a few years now.

I tried using my old Kayfun Lite Plus with a 1.5 ohm single coil about a year ago. It had that characteristic restrictive draw that all the early Kayfuns had. I couldn't do it. My cheeks hurt so much from trying to take a stronger draw, that I had to give up and return it back into the storage drawer.

That's my shared experience. I occassionally mess around with the air flow of my DTL tanks so that they are nearly closed off to come close to a MTL experience, and for the most part I'm successful with that technique. But before long I go back to the DTL airflow adjustment on the tanks because that's what I'm most happy with.

Another story. I recall a customer who was a high wattage, sub-ohm vaper. He came in one day and announced that he wanted to go "old school". He bought a Vision ego Spinner and an Aspire Mini Nautilus, and loved it.

Just today I purchased my first pod device. Next week I will be attending a huge girls basketball tournament that will last 4 days. I'm not sure if the facility allows you to leave to go outside to smoke or vape, so I know I might be stuck inside for up to 6 hours at a time. I told myself this might be the right opportunity to get a pod setup. I needed a stealthy device, something that would allow me to get my "fix" with 3 - 4 draws, with a battery that would last at least 6 hours.

I got a knockoff off-brand JUUL setup with nic salts, draw activated, about the size of a flash drive. Pod setup and two packs of pods for $40 from a vape shop.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

Well, congrats on so many years without smoking. Going from a loose open draw with lots of cloud back to a mouth to lung tight draw can be confusing. I go back and forth between loose air and draw on my attys to a tight draw on a pod I use for convenience or stealth when out. It sound like you might be pulling too hard directly into your lung with this stuff out of habit. You almost have to remember the draw on a cigarette, into your mouth, then inhale. Otherwise it does feel like sucking on a straw. Sometimes you get so used to a loose draw it's hard to go back.

Remember, it not the resistance that matters, it's the airflow. Higher ohm builds can do better with lower airflow while lower ohm builds need lots of airflow to keep the coil cool enough you don't get an overly hot vape. All you can do is try to find a balance that works. Keep the airflow open and pay attention to how you're inhaling. Hopefully you'll settle back down into a pattern you like again.

This is what I'm afraid of lol, I don't know if I can get use to this again. If you just suck with your lips, you're barely inhaling anything, the only way it seems to work is if you inhale in from your throat/chest. Remember with a lit cigarette, all you ever had to do was suck in with your lips, with e-cigarettes it doesn't really work that way...because even with a tighter draw, it's still more lose than a cigarette, I dunno it's hard to explain lol. I want to ask a friend who smokes to let me take a cigarette and put it in my lips and pretend I'm taking a drag (without it being lit of course) to see if I can remember how it works. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it and causing myself anxiety? It's possible, I'm very anxiety prone.

I do have two VooPoo Mini Drag kits that I picked up before I decided to make the switch. I only use the P2 coil (.6 ohm) and I run it around 20-22 watts and I love it, while it's still a sub ohm coil, it's also a bit on the restrictive side but not as restrictive as say what I've switched back to...yes it produces more clouds than a Aerotank or Nautilus but not as much as a lower ohm coil that is setup to blow massive clouds. I might end up having to pick something down the middle and perhaps just stick with that setup. I mean in the end, I have to use something that is comfortable for me and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get use to these tight draws again. Yes I have the airflow wide open on the Nautilus 2S tank (the larger/wider hole), not the dotted holes but it's still pretty tight...not as tight as the dotted hole side though.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

I could share a similar journey as yourself, but I'll spare everyone the details.

I firmly believe that we are addicted to more than just nicotine. There are all of those other toxic chemicals found in the smoke. We also can not ignore the hand-to-mouth behavior of smoking/vaping which is just as much a part of the addiction. My main addictive behavior was my need to "inhale/exhale" either smoke or vapor or I would develop a sort of anxiety until I could.

I began vaping MTL, low wattage (also with a Provari). At some point, like yourself, I became curious about sub-ohm vaping and higher wattage vaping. Working for a vape shop probably influenced that. My sweetspot has been 0.5 -0.6 ohm coils at around 30 watts. I've been at that point for a few years now.

I tried using my old Kayfun Lite Plus with a 1.5 ohm single coil about a year ago. It had that characteristic restrictive draw that all the early Kayfuns had. I couldn't do it. My cheeks hurt so much from trying to take a stronger draw, that I had to give up and return it back into the storage drawer.

That's my shared experience. I occassionally mess around with the air flow of my DTL tanks so that they are nearly closed off to come close to a MTL experience, and for the most part I'm successful with that technique. But before long I go back to the DTL airflow adjustment on the tanks because that's what I'm most happy with.

Another story. I recall a customer who was a high wattage, sub-ohm vaper. He came in one day and announced that he wanted to go "old school". He bought a Vision ego Spinner and an Aspire Mini Nautilus, and loved it.

Just today I purchased my first pod device. Next week I will be attending a huge girls basketball tournament that will last 4 days. I'm not sure if the facility allows you to leave to go outside to smoke or vape, so I know I might be stuck inside for up to 6 hours at a time. I told myself this might be the right opportunity to get a pod setup. I needed a stealthy device, something that would allow me to get my "fix" with 3 - 4 draws, with a battery that would last at least 6 hours.

I got a knockoff off-brand JUUL setup with nic salts, draw activated, about the size of a flash drive. Pod setup and two packs of pods for $40 from a vape shop.

Yes I forgot to mention the hand-mouth thing as well, that was also a big part of my cravings when I had quit smoking, but I was definitely having a withdrawal from some chemical in the cigarettes that just would not quit!

 

[englishmick]

This is what I'm afraid of lol, I don't know if I can get use to this again. If you just suck with your lips, you're barely inhaling anything, the only way it seems to work is if you inhale in from your throat/chest. Remember with a lit cigarette, all you ever had to do was suck in with your lips, with e-cigarettes it doesn't really work that way...because even with a tighter draw, it's still more lose than a cigarette, I dunno it's hard to explain lol. I want to ask a friend who smokes to let me take a cigarette and put it in my lips and pretend I'm taking a drag (without it being lit of course) to see if I can remember how it works. Maybe I'm just thinking too much about it and causing myself anxiety? It's possible, I'm very anxiety prone.

I do have two VooPoo Mini Drag kits that I picked up before I decided to make the switch. I only use the P2 coil (.6 ohm) and I run it around 20-22 watts and I love it, while it's still a sub ohm coil, it's also a bit on the restrictive side but not as restrictive as say what I've switched back to...yes it produces more clouds than a Aerotank or Nautilus but not as much as a lower ohm coil that is setup to blow massive clouds. I might end up having to pick something down the middle and perhaps just stick with that setup. I mean in the end, I have to use something that is comfortable for me and I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get use to these tight draws again. Yes I have the airflow wide open on the Nautilus 2S tank (the larger/wider hole), not the dotted holes but it's still pretty tight...not as tight as the dotted hole side though.

You mentioned you had a Subtank Mini. Still available on Fast Tech. You could pick one up and be able to try out different air settings and coils. I use one with a 1.2 coil on the RTA head. I'm sure there are newer tanks that can handle a wide range. Maybey easier to work your way down slowly rather than committing to a major change in one go.

 

[HigherStateD]

OP... That issue sounds like PG sensitivity. It's pulling water straight out of the skin in your throat. As for clouds and not having analog counterpart...

 

[charlie1465]

Some good points here and I think lots of us can relate to this kind of vaping journey. I have recently gone from a very loose DL draw to a more restricted DL and found that I like it so much i've started experimenting with some MTL RTA's. I absolutely wouldn't entertain the use of tanks like the nautilus though....i don't know why I just wouldn't.....

I absolutely know what you mean about the draw for MTL. The lower you go with restriction the more intense the vape is and in certain circumstances it can make you cough with a big throat hit. I recently got my self this atty.....

It's very enjoyable even though I couldn't vape like this all the time. I built it with a 1 ohm coil so that I could use it with a 18350 mod and it vapes great....you really can do a proper ciggy like draw on it. However the difference is the feel. The high ohm coil produces a very cool vape so you can't feel it going in and it's kind of surprising when you breathe out and find there is a lot of vapor there.

What you said about the tight feeling in the chest is true also....I get exactly the same thing and I can't explain that one but any way the point of all this is I would advise that you get something like the above atty...

Any of these are great for MTL.

Ataman V2 (that's the one above).
Kayfun Lite.
Kayfun Prime.

I hope this helps and stick with it...I expect some of this experience your having will dissipate in time

 

[United States]

A coworker told me the other day he stopped smoking in 1976 yet everytime he sets on his back deck with a cold glass of beer he still instinctively reaches for a shirt pocket where he always kept his cigarettes.

My brother stopped smoking a year ago and says everytime he cuts grass that after he's done he pats his shirt pocket looking for a cigarette.

I stopped smoking for 6 months at one point and until the day I resumed smoking my cravings got worse and worse.

Habits developed over decades don't just stop. Every time I ride past a house where my buddy lived when we were kids I turn my head to see if he is in the backyard tossing a ball with his little brother. His family sold the house 35 years ago.

Now regarding going from direct lung hits to drag style it also can be a big adjustment. Especially if the former habit led to big plumes of steam. My brother was a room filling exhale vaper until he began using an E8 pod by Vape Ants. He is all in on small devices now and with the same nic strength. He still does the direct pull thing, but the tight draw means a concentration of vape versus the max airflow setup.

With an adjustable tank the minimal airflow can lead to left over juice draining into the airflow intake resulting in spit backs. Auto draw pods of today greatly minimize that. In some cases to the point it is non existant.

Best regards going back to a more old school approach to vaping. And congratz on staying tobacco-free.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

I still have all my subtank mini tanks, I tried that before and while a lot of sub-ohm tanks give you the option to restrict the airflow, they don't really work that well in the end. In the end, sub-ohm tanks were designed to sub-ohm, not restrict airflow, you know? Just like a lot of these newer MTL tanks, they now give you the option to use sub-ohm coils in them but it's still not quite a true sub-ohm experience, you know?

I'm pretty sure since the beginning of my vaping journey, that I've ALWAYS inhaled from a device, using my lungs/chest, not just my lips...I don't know how that's even possible to do. Yes even with Blu cig-a-likes, I never used just my lips to inhale, I'm pretty sure I always inhaled using my chest/lungs because e-cigarettes don't work like a real cigarette does. Again, it's all pretty hard to explain.

If I just suck using my lips, the suck only last like a second lol, it just doesn't work. It seems you have to use your chest/lungs to inhale, that doesn't always mean a direct lung hit though because it depends on what setup you're using. Sure you might get a little vapor trickling down your throat into your lungs but you don't get what you would get using a true direct lung hit.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

What you said about the tight feeling in the chest is true also....I get exactly the same thing and I can't explain that one but any way the point of all this is I would advise that you get something like the above atty...

I'm assuming the tight feeling in the throat/chest is because of the tighter suction pull you're doing with the MTL tanks vs the sub-ohm tanks? I mean it kinda makes sense.

I'm surprised you don't like the Nautilus, man everyone used that setup back in the day. That's kinda what I just went for since I had used it for so long. I don't build so I only use drop in coils, no matter what type of vaping I'm doing.

 

[charlie1465]

I'm assuming the tight feeling in the throat/chest is because of the tighter suction pull you're doing with the MTL tanks vs the sub-ohm tanks? I mean it kinda makes sense.

I'm surprised you don't like the Nautilus, man everyone used that setup back in the day. That's kinda what I just went for since I had used it for so long. I don't build so I only use drop in coils, no matter what type of vaping I'm doing.

I just didn't try the Nautilus because I went directly from the ego's straight to DL trying to find something that satisfied the urge to smoke

It's a shame you don't build because these RTA's produce a far superior vape experience....flavour is superb and I don't know....the vapor production is good too...

Good luck with what you go with

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

OP... That issue sounds like PG sensitivity. It's pulling water straight out of the skin in your throat. As for clouds and not having analog counterpart...

Huh?

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

I just didn't try the Nautilus because I went directly from the ego's straight to DL trying to find something that satisfied the urge to smoke

It's a shame you don't build because these RTA's produce a far superior vape experience....flavour is superb and I don't know....the vapor production is good too...

Good luck with what you go with

Yea I tried building but I just could never really get into it, it's just not my thing. I admitted defeat and moved on from it lol

 

[HigherStateD]

Huh?

My cigars blow clouds like a 0.27ohm tiger coil at 60w.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

My cigars blow clouds like a 0.27ohm tiger coil at 60w.

I was referring to the "water" comment you made. I use/used 70VG or Max VG liquids in my sub-ohm tanks, I don't think it has anything to do with PG, it's just so much vapor it just irritates my throat. You know what they say, too much of anything is...

 

[HigherStateD]

I was referring to the "water" comment you made. I use/used 70VG or Max VG liquids in my sub-ohm tanks, I don't think it has anything to do with PG, it's just so much vapor it just irritates my throat. You know what they say, too much of anything is...

PG is an alcohol. It is hygroscopic. It will absorb water. Even at "max VG" most commercial juice I've seen is only 80%. Even with 95% VG, I still have issues with PG.

The way body reacts, the PG will absorb the water, and the VG will coat the surfaces which act like chap stick on chapped lips, making them feel moist, but actually preventing moisture from returning osmotically to the tissue. I only vape about 30-35mL a day though.

 

[vaper1960]

Great story! I do MTL (never got into DTL and clouds) and my device has two coil options: 1.2 ohm and 0.6 ohm) The 1.2 is OK but I have to use thinner juices to keep the coil happy. I totally love the 0.6 ohm (in a pockex with no airfow adjustment, but not overly restrictive) I can use thicker juices and the coils last longer than the 1.2 ohm. Recently having some throat issues with a new juice... I thought it was because of higher PG ratio, but now convinced it's related to sweeteners and/or flavorings. "steeping" it (and just aging it) seems to have helped some. Doesn't happen with my other juices. Have you tried several juices to rule out this as an issue? Maybe you just need to re-train yourself to do MTL differently. Either way, just take sips of water between vapes... it really helps.

 

[evan le'garde]

I'd say if it feels too tight then it is. If this was happening to me i'd open up the airflow a little bit at a time. Have you ever rolled a cigarette too tightly. If "i" did i'd just roll another one, but properly this time.

One 2.5 second primer draw closely followed by another. As always nothing on the first, but the second, OMG !. Just 11.5 watts with a 1 ohm coil works just fine. A nice cool vape with a very satisfying throat hit.

Oh, and i simply cannot be bothered with DL vaping, it's just too much like hard work.

 

[Drewps5co0tt]

PG is an alcohol. It is hygroscopic. It will absorb water. Even at "max VG" most commercial juice I've seen is only 80%. Even with 95% VG, I still have issues with PG.

The way body reacts, the PG will absorb the water, and the VG will coat the surfaces which act like chap stick on chapped lips, making them feel moist, but actually preventing moisture from returning osmotically to the tissue. I only vape about 30-35mL a day though.

Really? I never heard this before, that might explain the throat irritation then from all the damn vapor. No I wasn't questioning you, I was just confused as to what you meant by "water." Interesting because I had asked my ENT if it's possible to have INVISIBLE throat irritation that he can't see and he said yes, absolutely! So this might be the answer.