Thoughts on closed thread (vaping drying out lungs)...

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we2rcool

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Since I'm a newbie, I don't know how to "properly" do this...so I'm just going to do my best (and hope that if I'm not supposed to do this, that a moderator let me know or move/delete my post).

From this thread (which is now "closed") http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...can-your-lungs-gets-before-having-issues.html ...I would like to add what I feel is integral information.

Yes, it does seem technically possible for vaping to 'dry out' our lungs.

Why?

Because both VG & PG are humectants!

What's a humectant?

Basically, it's any substance or chemical that draws moisture to itself. From here (you can find the same/more detailed information all over the 'net):Saje Natural Wellness | Medical & Natural Glossary | Saje Natural Wellness

Humectant – A product which helps the skin retain moisture. The problem with humectants, including propylene glycol and glycerin is that; although they are most effective when you are in areas with high humidity, if you are going to be in an extremely low humidity atmosphere, such as in an airplane or even a dry room, they can actually take moisture from your skin. Here’s why: Humectants are on the search for moisture that can be absorbed from the environment. If the environment is so drying that there is no moisture to be had, they till get it from the next best source – your skin. When this happens, the ingredient, which is supposed to help your skin retain moisture, instead does the opposite. (Brumberg)

VG & PG are both used commercially as moisturizers and/or "soothers" (as a 'remedy' for coughs & dry/irritated throat & mucous membranes). When applied to the top layer of skin, the humectant actually pulls water from anywhere to itself...that can be from the air OR from deeper down into the skin to itself. This gives the feeling and appearance of the skin being 'moisturized' (which it is, because the top layer of skin in now wetter, due to the VG/PG drawing moisture to itself). BUT, this can easily/actually worsen the problem of 'dry skin', because if the moisture is drawn from deeper in the layers on skin, there'll be less moisture throughout the layers of skin than there was before using the 'moisturizer'.

In fact many people that use 'humectant based' moisturizers actually become 'pseudo addicted' to them. If they stop using them, their skin initially becomes much drier than it was previously - so they think their condition is worsening...so they pile on more 'moisturizer'. Of course, if they stop using them 'for a time', their skin should normalize (assuming they haven't actually damaged their tissue somehow).

Since thus is a known phenomenon, it would certainly be reasonable to assume that vaping with PG/VG could cause moisture to be pulled from the deeper lung tissue - hence drying it out.

Another possible issue? How does PG/VG laying on the surface of our lungs drawing moisture to itself, affect the ability of our lungs to 'process moisture' in the way they would naturally? Obviously the tar from analogs is exceedingly nasty in that regard (on top of limiting our ability to exhale toxic carbon dioxide).

Of course, those of us switching from analogs are going to 'feel' better (since we're switching from sucking down hot tar' to sucking down something that's "soothing"). But that doesn't mean that long-term use isn't going to cause some type of 'drying effect'.

And since no one mentioned all that in the original thread, I wanted to add this information. I certainly hope no one will think I'm some kind of "anti-vaper troll" (I'm just getting started vaping after 20 long years of smoking, and I'm lovin' every vape!). I just think 'more information is better' (especially when it comes to our health).

Peace - out

P.S. If ever I want to comment on a "closed thread", is this what I should do? Or is there a better way? Or was I breaking some kind of a rule to do this?
 
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tonycap

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Since I'm a newbie, I don't know how to "properly" do this...so I'm just going to do my best (and hope that if I'm not supposed to do this, that a moderator let me know or move/delete my post).

From this thread (which is now "closed") http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...can-your-lungs-gets-before-having-issues.html ...I would like to add what I feel is integral information.

Yes, it does seem technically possible for vaping to 'dry out' our lungs.

Why?

Because both VG & PG are humectants!

What's a humectant?

Basically, it's any substance or chemical that draws moisture to itself. From here (you can find the same/more detailed information all over the 'net):Saje Natural Wellness | Medical & Natural Glossary | Saje Natural Wellness

Humectant – A product which helps the skin retain moisture. The problem with humectants, including propylene glycol and glycerin is that; although they are most effective when you are in areas with high humidity, if you are going to be in an extremely low humidity atmosphere, such as in an airplane or even a dry room, they can actually take moisture from your skin. Here’s why: Humectants are on the search for moisture that can be absorbed from the environment. If the environment is so drying that there is no moisture to be had, they till get it from the next best source – your skin. When this happens, the ingredient, which is supposed to help your skin retain moisture, instead does the opposite. (Brumberg)

VG & PG are both used commercially as moisturizers and/or "soothers" (as a 'remedy' for coughs & dry/irritated throat & mucous membranes). When applied to the top layer of skin, the humectant actually pulls water from anywhere to itself...that can be from the air OR from deeper down into the skin to itself. This gives the feeling and appearance of the skin being 'moisturized' (which it is, because the top layer of skin in now wetter, due to the VG/PG drawing moisture to itself). BUT, this can easily/actually worsen the problem of 'dry skin', because if the moisture is drawn from deeper in the layers on skin, there'll be less moisture throughout the layers of skin than there was before using the 'moisturizer'.

In fact many people that use 'humectant based' moisturizers actually become 'pseudo addicted' to them. If they stop using them, their skin initially becomes much drier than it was previously - so they think their condition is worsening...so they pile on more 'moisturizer'. Of course, if they stop using them 'for a time', their skin should normalize (assuming they haven't actually damaged their tissue somehow).

Since thus is a known phenomenon, it would certainly be reasonable to assume that vaping with PG/VG could cause moisture to be pulled from the deeper lung tissue - hence drying it out.

Another possible issue? How does PG/VG laying on the surface of our lungs drawing moisture to itself, affect the ability of our lungs to 'process moisture' in the way they would naturally? Obviously the tar from analogs is exceedingly nasty in that regard (on top of limiting our ability to exhale toxic carbon dioxide).

Of course, those of us switching from analogs are going to 'feel' better (since we're switching from sucking down hot tar' to sucking down something that's "soothing"). But that doesn't mean that long-term use isn't going to cause some type of 'drying effect'.

And since no one mentioned all that in the original thread, I wanted to add this information. I certainly hope no one will think I'm some kind of "anti-vaper troll" (I'm just getting started vaping after 20 long years of smoking, and I'm lovin' every vape!). I just think 'more information is better' (especially when it comes to our health).

Peace - out

P.S. If ever I want to comment on a "closed thread", is this what I should do? Or is there a better way? Or was I breaking some kind of a rule to do this?



I agree more info is always better! I hope this stays open I want to stay up on it
 
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Caridwen

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Although there are many threads on this topic and the Health section is a better place for this sort of post, this thread can remain open.

Two provisions-

1. Topic remains civil
2. Care used when linking to articles. Please read through the forum rules. This is something we're very serious about.

Rule 17 : Linking to low-quality websites
[1] A 'live link' or hyperlink is a link that, when clicked, sends the visitor to the linked resource, such as a web page.
[2] Search engines attribute a great deal of weight to ECF materials (it is called 'TrustRank'). If we link to a webpage, it is seen as a major vote for that page, by the search engines, and it will give that page additional pagerank and credibility. We do not want to support commercial paid-for propaganda and inaccurate or agenda-based journalism.

If your unsure, ask or break the link.
 

Caridwen

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Um, did that sound grouchy? Sorry, didn't mean for it to be. It's good info and fine if it's posted here.

P.S. If ever I want to comment on a "closed thread", is this what I should do? Or is there a better way? Or was I breaking some kind of a rule to do this?

It was fine to post a link to that thread. It wasn't closed due to the subject but by general rudeness. Not acceptable. But if you have a question, just PM a mod and ask. :)
 

Kopfstimmen

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I thought it was a perfectly valid question too. I felt really bad for the OP. That's not how new members should be treated. I know more than most people here will ever know about thermoregulation in the European Honeybee (Apis Mellifera), but if you asked me how bananas help leg cramps, I'd be clueless. (I'm sure you get the reference.) :)
Anyway, great post!
 

we2rcool

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Um, did that sound grouchy? Sorry, didn't mean for it to be. It's good info and fine if it's posted here.



It was fine to post a link to that thread. It wasn't closed due to the subject but by general rudeness. Not acceptable. But if you have a question, just PM a mod and ask. :)

I didn't think you sounded "grouchy" at ALL! (even though I'm a newbie here, I'm a 'veteran' when it comes to forums so I totally understand y'alls need to "keep it civil"...and I truly appreciate that). I didn't see a "health forum", but I'll be sure to check it out soon!

While I'm here (and since I now know there's a health forum), I do have a question regarding this:

>>>"commercial paid-for propaganda and inaccurate or agenda-based journalism " How does this forum define or decide what is "commercial paid for propaganda" and "agenda-based journalism"?

Perhaps a word of explanation/example will help clarify my question (so you won't have to guess, or spend a lot of time replying for nothing). I'm an herbalist, natural healer, and I've assisted many people beat cancer and other diseases via natural methodology & diet that've been used for centuries (when mainstream medicine/media gave up on them or made them worse). Yet mainstream media/medicine consider this type of information/sites "propaganda" or "agenda based" (or even harmful).

I promise I will always "play by the rules" and respect them (after all, it's NOT my playground, I'm just a guest). But if you could share a bit of insight on how to make sure I don't break the rules, I'd truly appreciate it.

If it's not possible to "define" what I'm asking, I'll be perfectly satisfied with "PM a mod".

Thanks for all you do!
 

mainevaper

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Although there are many threads on this topic and the Health section is a better place for this sort of post, this thread can remain open.

Two provisions-

1. Topic remains civil
2. Care used when linking to articles. Please read through the forum rules. This is something we're very serious about.

Rule 17 : Linking to low-quality websites
[1] A 'live link' or hyperlink is a link that, when clicked, sends the visitor to the linked resource, such as a web page.
[2] Search engines attribute a great deal of weight to ECF materials (it is called 'TrustRank'). If we link to a webpage, it is seen as a major vote for that page, by the search engines, and it will give that page additional pagerank and credibility. We do not want to support commercial paid-for propaganda and inaccurate or agenda-based journalism.

If your unsure, ask or break the link.

Thank you! This may be the first time I have read anything from a mod that makes sense :D
 

nahoku

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Great thread and I'm glad you started it. In my own research on vaping, I've read what feels like tons of articles, both good and bad, from doctors, to scientist, to media BS, and talk shows. None of it has biased me in any way. More research and data to help vapers understand what they're getting into always helps and having a forum like ECF to voice concerns, or ask questions, only helps the cause. Hopefully, one day, all data will paint a valid picture we as vapers hope to see.

Vape on!
 

Caridwen

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Thank you! This may be the first time I have read anything from a mod that makes sense :D

yes_zps9d0423bd.gif
 

AttyPops

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You expel a lot of moisture from your lungs...like another (several?) posters have said. So...I'm not overly worried about it.

I suppose you could overdo anything though...including vaping, smoking, medical inhalers, steam, dry air, etc.

Would it be worse if you lived in a desert? What about humid areas? Does it help dry out the lungs? This can go on forever.

The studies that say "e-cigs have an effect on airways"...are probably correct. So does....ozone action days, smog, fog, outer space, humidity, pollen, mold, dust, dander, cleaning agents, ......... so I take em with a grain of salt unless they get real specific as to how it differs from other common stuff (outer space excepted for obvious reasons) and at what concentrations. Even then, I say to myself "Probably better than smoking".
 

evan le'garde

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Since I'm a newbie, I don't know how to "properly" do this...so I'm just going to do my best (and hope that if I'm not supposed to do this, that a moderator let me know or move/delete my post).

From this thread (which is now "closed") http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...can-your-lungs-gets-before-having-issues.html ...I would like to add what I feel is integral information.

Yes, it does seem technically possible for vaping to 'dry out' our lungs.

Why?

Because both VG & PG are humectants!

What's a humectant?

Basically, it's any substance or chemical that draws moisture to itself. From here (you can find the same/more detailed information all over the 'net):Saje Natural Wellness | Medical & Natural Glossary | Saje Natural Wellness

Humectant – A product which helps the skin retain moisture. The problem with humectants, including propylene glycol and glycerin is that; although they are most effective when you are in areas with high humidity, if you are going to be in an extremely low humidity atmosphere, such as in an airplane or even a dry room, they can actually take moisture from your skin. Here’s why: Humectants are on the search for moisture that can be absorbed from the environment. If the environment is so drying that there is no moisture to be had, they till get it from the next best source – your skin. When this happens, the ingredient, which is supposed to help your skin retain moisture, instead does the opposite. (Brumberg)

VG & PG are both used commercially as moisturizers and/or "soothers" (as a 'remedy' for coughs & dry/irritated throat & mucous membranes). When applied to the top layer of skin, the humectant actually pulls water from anywhere to itself...that can be from the air OR from deeper down into the skin to itself. This gives the feeling and appearance of the skin being 'moisturized' (which it is, because the top layer of skin in now wetter, due to the VG/PG drawing moisture to itself). BUT, this can easily/actually worsen the problem of 'dry skin', because if the moisture is drawn from deeper in the layers on skin, there'll be less moisture throughout the layers of skin than there was before using the 'moisturizer'.

In fact many people that use 'humectant based' moisturizers actually become 'pseudo addicted' to them. If they stop using them, their skin initially becomes much drier than it was previously - so they think their condition is worsening...so they pile on more 'moisturizer'. Of course, if they stop using them 'for a time', their skin should normalize (assuming they haven't actually damaged their tissue somehow).

Since thus is a known phenomenon, it would certainly be reasonable to assume that vaping with PG/VG could cause moisture to be pulled from the deeper lung tissue - hence drying it out.

Another possible issue? How does PG/VG laying on the surface of our lungs drawing moisture to itself, affect the ability of our lungs to 'process moisture' in the way they would naturally? Obviously the tar from analogs is exceedingly nasty in that regard (on top of limiting our ability to exhale toxic carbon dioxide).

Of course, those of us switching from analogs are going to 'feel' better (since we're switching from sucking down hot tar' to sucking down something that's "soothing"). But that doesn't mean that long-term use isn't going to cause some type of 'drying effect'.

And since no one mentioned all that in the original thread, I wanted to add this information. I certainly hope no one will think I'm some kind of "anti-vaper troll" (I'm just getting started vaping after 20 long years of smoking, and I'm lovin' every vape!). I just think 'more information is better' (especially when it comes to our health).

Peace - out

P.S. If ever I want to comment on a "closed thread", is this what I should do? Or is there a better way? Or was I breaking some kind of a rule to do this?

Where does the moisture go
 

Talyon

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It's never proper to be reasonable to assume. As assuming is not a fact.

Saying that I believe in facts and how I feel.

Good post OP wish u had started this way yesterday, IMO.

Welcome to ECF and hope u find all your answers as I have mine so far. people here are the best at helping. Enjoy your Vapeing experience.
 

mkbilbo

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Good thread well worded, I hope it can remain civil this time :)

Glad you stuck around. I read the other thread and, boy, it went off the rails fast. But, well, I've seen communication break down in the online world a million times. Especially when the forum in question has been repeatedly trolled. As this one seems to be.

Myself, I find the topic interesting. Not too worrying but worth kicking around. My smoking was having a drying effect on my lungs I could tell. But my vaping doesn't involve inhaling into my lungs much at all if any. I doubt it would have nearly as bad an effect.

Did give me a minor bit of a nose bleed at the very start from exhaling through the nose. Or that was because the temperature dropped suddenly in this crazy weather. One of the two or both. I'm not a good judge of that as I've always been prone to dehydrating rather easily and tend to have water around to sip pretty much all the time anyway. I may not be the best measure of that issue?
 
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