Selling 0 nic juice for the same prices as nic

[skydragon]

hmmm...

I wonder how often Pepsi gives an extra discount to those who only drink diet since that means they don't have to add those extra ingredients. Or how often people get a discount at McDonalds because they don't want the pickles or ketchup on their burger.

I make them take a dime off the price for every pickle I don't order.

 

[Ragamuffin]

I believe it's for this reason: to make a decent profit. It takes them pretty much just as long to mix up & bottle a 24mg juice as it does a 0 nic juice. About, what, 4 seconds less time? Do you really want a discount on that amount of time? And I haven't seen that most vendors mix to order. I've seen that some do. Just as many sell premade juices. And I'm sure they pay the same for those in varying levels of nicotine. I know they say they mix to order, but I'm willing to bet that sometimes they actually mix up a couple bottles worth of tobacco flavor, 24mg because they know they have three or four orders waiting to be filled that day for Tobacco. The one that wants zero nic will have to be mixed alone. There is more time spent mixing. See what I'm getting at here? You are paying for not only their products, but their time.

You can mix your own if you like. And I have done this and still do sometimes, but I found that ordering a jug of PG isn't all that cheap, nor is ordering a jug of nicotine liquid. Of course it will last the rest of my natural life. But it isn't $.03 a liter.

I love Tasty Vapor juices too, but in reality, they are in busines to make money. You are paying $15 for a 4 oz. bottle of flavored liquid. Surely a mil or less of nicotine doesn't increase the cost by 75%? But it's a great product, so it's worth it. And $15 for 30ml of liquid is pretty reasonable I think.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Nicely put, Thy. One could then ask if we deserve a discount for only one flavor and not two or three? I think not.

 

[Blaze]

I always found it a bit off that vendors charge the same price for low/zero nic vs. high nic. But to be honest, I never knew that nic was such a small part of the equation.

I'm glad, however, that some vendors found a solution to this. TV is a prime example. Their 0 nic doublers are the same price, but you get 4oz instead of 1oz. This seems to me to be a bit more that a "small part" of the nic equation (or maybe they're just good guys ), however, I do agree with the OP about shipping costs. Some vendors charge outrageous amounts for shipping.

Overall though, I have to agree with Thy, it would create more headache and confusion than it's worth for both vendor and customer if all juices were different prices. So my suggestion: If you don't like the vendor's price, shop around until you find one you like

 

[Nikhil]

I don't know why the OP is having to defend himself, because he is correct. Someone also responded with completely inaccurate information about diluting liquids being similar in price to nicotine, and that 100mg/ml nicotine liquid is only 5% nicotine (it's just under 10%).

Bulk PG and VG both cost well under 1 cent/ml. Bulk nicotine is much more expensive (easily $1/ml), varying a lot depending on the quality control standards.

My guess is that complicated pricing schemes that account for the scaling costs of higher nicotine levels turn off customers. If I were you, I agree I'd rather see the costs affect the price so I'm not overpaying to compensate for the people who buy the high nicotine liquid.

Also, saying that you're paying for their time doesn't mean anything since the time to mix each nic level is pretty much the same.

 

[Ragamuffin]

Well, you are paying for their time. That's how self-employed people make their living. And it takes LESS time to add no nicotine that it does to add any nicotine. Yet it isn't enough of a difference to matter. The point is the business owner who is mixing his own liquids has to make enough money to make it worth their time to continue doing it. They can then set their prices accordingly. The more they can mix and sell in eight hours the more money they make per hour. Make sense?

The OP doesn't have to defend his opinion. He is free to shop anywhere he is comfortable paying the prices.

 

[Nikhil]

I suppose I should have said "I don't know why people are attacking the OP," it's just natural to defend yourself when attacked.

Still, I don't understand. Let's say you charge $10 for a 15ml bottle of 18mg and it costs you $5 to make + your time. Then you have 0mg and 36mg, which cost you $4 and $6 to make, respectively. Why not charge people who buy 0mg $9 and those that buy 36mg $11? I think it's because it would turn some customers away, not for any other reason. The company theoretically wouldn't make any more money with flat pricing unless they are overcharging everyone who buys less than 36mg (which I'm sure many places do).

 

[Thyestean]

I don't know why the OP is having to defend himself, because he is correct. Someone also responded with completely inaccurate information about diluting liquids being similar in price to nicotine, and that 100mg/ml nicotine liquid is only 5% nicotine (it's just under 10%).

Bulk PG and VG both cost well under 1 cent/ml. Bulk nicotine is much more expensive (easily $1/ml), varying a lot depending on the quality control standards.

My guess is that complicated pricing schemes that account for the scaling costs of higher nicotine levels turn off customers. If I were you, I agree I'd rather see the costs affect the price so I'm not overpaying to compensate for the people who buy the high nicotine liquid.

Also, saying that you're paying for their time doesn't mean anything since the time to mix each nic level is pretty much the same.

Sorry but I will never understand the logic it takes to make the very first statement in that quote. Nobody ever said the OP needed to defend himself. If you make a statement or pose a question on an open forum then you know well before you even start typing it that it is going to be open for response by all. If that isn't what someone wants then they shouldn't pose a question publicly. Nobody is "attacking" the OP. People are giving their point of view on the question that was posed. If that is considered an attack, which is the only thing that ever needs to be defended against, then even the original question would have to be considered an attack in itself.

As to the pricing schemes I think you are correct in the assumption that complicated pricing schemes turn away customers. Therefore do people really expect vendors to chase away the majority of customers in order to satisfy the minority and thus end up running themselves right out of business?

The logic I would use in many threads pertaining to various issues that basically boil down to price complaints would be simple.

#1 - There are more than enough various vendors around here for people to shop around at and choose the ones that best suit their wants and needs. If a vendor does something that directly affects you in a negative manner then speak up about it to help others avoid having the same happen to them. If your issues with a vendor are strictly that you won't buy something from them because you don't like their price then see first sentence of this paragraph.

#2 - If you don't write to bigger everyday companies with the same type of complaints about comparable issues (ie: you're a caffeine free soda drinker who pays the same price as a regular soda drinker yet doesn't write the company and complain about it and realistically expect them to change it) then don't do it just because these vendors are more easily accessible. The simple fact that they do make themselves more easily accessible to you, in my book, should earn them the respect of following this idea.

Just my
(which should really go without saying since everything I type is exactly that otherwise I wouldn't be typing it.)

 

[mwa102464]

Love the caffeine free soda, thats just perfect.!! well said Thy

 

[Nikhil]

Yeah I was just perturbed by the misinformation in some of the responses, it made it seem like people were trying to discredit the OP. Maybe it was partly my imagination. Wasn't directed at you Thy.

 

[Thyestean]

I suppose I should have said "I don't know why people are attacking the OP," it's just natural to defend yourself when attacked.

Still, I don't understand. Let's say you charge $10 for a 15ml bottle of 18mg and it costs you $5 to make + your time. Then you have 0mg and 36mg, which cost you $4 and $6 to make, respectively. Why not charge people who buy 0mg $9 and those that buy 36mg $11? I think it's because it would turn some customers away, not for any other reason. The company theoretically wouldn't make any more money with flat pricing unless they are overcharging everyone who buys less than 36mg (which I'm sure many places do).

No matter how you word the first sentence it comes down to the same logic so I won't respond to that part since I just did in the one I was typing while you were posting this one.

Just have to say though that the part I highlighted in red is completely inaccurate.

Lets say a company has 4 nicotine levels(A=0mg, B=10mg, C=20mg, D=30mg) available to purchase. The most logical way to price it, without having a complicated pricing scheme that would drive away customers, would be to figure out your actual cost and your markup on all 4 products and then make the assumption (because it's the logical one in this situation) that the majority of customers are going to be buying either liquids B or C. So pricing your products under that logic you are actually going to be pricing them where you're making a little more on people buying A but making less on those buying D.

I'm not saying that is the way it's done but it is a logical assumption and just an example of how saying the only way the company could possibly use a blanket price is to rip all but a tiny sub-set of customers off is incorrect.

Again though it all boils down to .... If you wouldn't go to Burger King and say "Hey you better give me a discount on my drink because I don't intend to use ice, a straw, or a lid." then don't come on here making posts berating people for not giving discounts that would benefit a specific sub-set of customers.

 

[unsure]

I don't have a problem with vendors that charge $5-6 for priority. My problem are those that will charge $7 or more and ship first class. I've received packages with a couple 5 ml bottles in Small bubble envelopes with the actual postage being under $2.

Maybe I wasnt clear but that was my point also. I agree with you. I also forgot to mention the small flat rate Priority Mail box shipping cost is only $4.95. Adding in pking material, labeling/confirmation and labor....one should expect priority for $7 (assuming the order is NOT the size needing a cargo container) . Getting one's order fast is always appreciated.

 

[Thyestean]

Yeah I was just perturbed by the misinformation in some of the responses, it made it seem like people were trying to discredit the OP. Maybe it was partly my imagination. Wasn't directed at you Thy.

LOL you keep posting while I'm taking my sweet time typing.

Yeah I understand that and while I don't know exact prices on base supplies, thus why I didn't say anything on that aspect, I completely understand correcting such an error. But then again not all vendors pay the same prices depending on their suppliers and quantity of supplies purchased.

And no problem for me even if something is directed toward me. Honestly I give my opinion, and unfortunately get long winded at it at times, but if I bother to respond to something, in a serious manner, then it is nothing but my opinion and just as open to criticism as anyone elses.

(yeah shutup lgd(lightgeoduck) I put that in bold as a pre-attack defense )

 

[ab357]

No matter how you word the first sentence it comes down to the same logic so I won't respond to that part since I just did in the one I was typing while you were posting this one.

Just have to say though that the part I highlighted in red is completely inaccurate.

Lets say a company has 4 nicotine levels(A=0mg, B=10mg, C=20mg, D=30mg) available to purchase. The most logical way to price it, without having a complicated pricing scheme that would drive away customers, would be to figure out your actual cost and your markup on all 4 products and then make the assumption (because it's the logical one in this situation) that the majority of customers are going to be buying either liquids B or C. So pricing your products under that logic you are actually going to be pricing them where you're making a little more on people buying A but making less on those buying D.

I'm not saying that is the way it's done but it is a logical assumption and just an example of how saying the only way the company could possibly use a blanket price is to rip all but a tiny sub-set of customers off is incorrect.

Again though it all boils down to .... If you wouldn't go to Burger King and say "Hey you better give me a discount on my drink because I don't intend to use ice, a straw, or a lid." then don't come on here making posts berating people for not giving discounts that would benefit a specific sub-set of customers.

Since I'm waiting to begin a meeting I'll try to make this fast. You bet your (your choice) I complain to the largest of corporations about poor service. I'm a die hard Pepsiholic. I was one of the people that would call Pepsico and demand refunds when I bought a bunch of 2 liters only to find out they were stale. I'd have to send in a bottle to be analyzed before they would issue coupons to compensate for my losses. They eventually began dating their products to alleviate this problem.


I discovered Verizon wasn't applying my federal discount for years. After being told they could only give me a $150 credit, I went straight to their President's Office. The end result, a $1700 credit and not one but two free HTC Droid Incredible phones. I could list others examples of going to the big companies with my concerns/complaints but I'm pressed for time.

I don't think your analogy about pricing is appropriate. I see it more along the lines of going into a bar and being charged the same for their stock scotch as they do their finest double malted, or the same for a bottle of cheap Rose as a bottle of their finest Champaign.

Nic juice is one animal; 0 nic juice is a completely different animal. Isn't it the comments of consumers that good retailers look at in deciding their business practices? Sorry have to go into this meeting.

 

[Thyestean]

Since I'm waiting to begin a meeting I'll try to make this fast. You bet your (your choice) I complain to the largest of corporations about poor service. I'm a die hard Pepsiholic. I was one of the people that would call Pepsico and demand refunds when I bought a bunch of 2 liters only to find out they were stale. I'd have to send in a bottle to be analyzed before they would issue coupons to compensate for my losses. They eventually began dating their products to alleviate this problem.


I discovered Verizon wasn't applying my federal discount for years. After being told they could only give me a $150 credit, I went straight to their President's Office. The end result, a $1700 credit and not one but two free HTC Droid Incredible phones. I could list others examples of going to the big companies with my concerns/complaints but I'm pressed for time.

I'm sorry but in no way is either of those instances an example of anything even close to what this thread is about or the situation I gave as an example. Both of those are receiving bad product and/or service and getting ripped off on money that you were entitled to. Both of those I would definitely agree in complaining about but they really have no correlation to this "debate"/conversation.

I don't think your analogy about pricing is appropriate. I see it more along the lines of going into a bar and being charged the same for their stock scotch as they do their finest double malted, or the same for a bottle of cheap Rose as a bottle of their finest Champaign.

Nic juice is one animal; 0 nic juice is a completely different animal. Isn't it the comments of consumers that good retailers look at in deciding their business practices? Sorry have to go into this meeting.

Again I would have to disagree with the logic of that. If that's the case then you are looking at it as what you want to see it as and not what it is.

That is looking at different brands of products that are supposed to be the same thing. That would be more akin to complaining about pricing from one vendor to another which as I said above there are plenty of vendors to choose from for the same flavors but not necessarily the same quality or exact taste.

Again it comes down to complaining about price based on what you personally think the worth of one single ingredient is.

As I think someone already asked above..

If company A said they were going to charge you X amount for apple or grape or watermelon but that they were going to charge you X + $3 for hazelnut coffee with whipped cream because it takes more different flavors and takes them more time to mix it together would you be okay with that?

 

[Elendil]

You can get juice for 10-12 cents per ml regardless of nic content if you look carefully. How much cheaper should it be?

 

[mwa102464]

Exactly my thoughts

 

[firhill]

You have a couple of choices....

1) You could call the president/head honcho of the FDA (a la the Verizon and Pepsi incidents)..I'm sure they'd love to hear from you

2) You could call Parked's brother and buy from him and, as he sold strictly no-nic liquid, you'd have nothing on his site to compare it to.

FWIW..I think the dood had good shipping costs too.

Actually, both the shipping and the no-nic issues have been beaten to death one more than one occasion.
Bottom line always is..buy from whichever supplier's pricing (be it juice,shipping or whatever) makes you happy.

 

[Trioxin]

I don't know why the OP is having to defend himself, because he is correct. Someone also responded with completely inaccurate information about diluting liquids being similar in price to nicotine, and that 100mg/ml nicotine liquid is only 5% nicotine (it's just under 10%).

Hence why I bothered to add "I can't remember the correct numbers" to my statement. So then by the prices I've been quoted, a 1.8% solution (18mg) would mean the main cost of the solution would be the diluting liquid.

 

[ab357]

As I think someone already asked above..

If company A said they were going to charge you X amount for apple or grape or watermelon but that they were going to charge you X + $3 for hazelnut coffee with whipped cream because it takes more different flavors and takes them more time to mix it together would you be okay with that?

This thread came as a result of looking at soo many vendor sites with many stating they're selling the same usual juices with widely varying prices. I guess it was also a result of my frustration of still searching for vendors I like for my different flavor types; fruity, sweets, tobacco, etc. As a typical newbie, I decided to inquire why the difference for 0 nic juices.

As to your question above; I would be okay with it IF I felt the juice was worth it. No re-reading the question, with such a complex formulation I'd expect it to cost more. However I'd also expect the end result to be worth the extra money and not just the generics other vendors sell without increasing the cost.

If I find a vendor that charges premium for their juices AND I loved them, I have no problem what so ever paying the extra price. But don't expect me to re-order from you if after I receive it, I feel it's just the a bunch flavorings thrown together.