Reversing Heart Disease after stopping smoking

[John Phoenix]

I'm posting this in the Lounge because it's health related but not necessarily e-cig related. I don't wanna see any comments by TLDR, if you cannot be bothered to read it, don't reply. This is a serious thread.

As smokers we all probably have some damage to our hearts if we've smoked for a number of years. It's a subject no one likes to talk about. I'm an American who has eaten the Standard American Diet most of my life (appropriately initialed SAD) and I've smoked for over 30 years save for recent years when using e-cigs. I've had a little chest pain for years on and off even before I found e-cigs in 2010. I thought the stopping smoking would help - it didn't.

---> Even after switching to the e-cig I still continued to develop heart problems.
---> You'll find this is going to be the Rule for Most people Not the exception which is Why we Need to Talk about it.

I wonder how many of you are in the same situation. It turns out the smoke in cigarettes can cause hardening of the arteries. It also turns out however that it's not just the cigarettes that made us sick but our diets. We have fed ourselves tiny bites of poison over the years for most of our lives and that's done the majority of damage to our hearts. In the UK things may be a little different. We in America have a health care system based not on health care but making a profit. You guys in the UK know this as your health care system is not based on profit. You guys outlawed things like GMO's and other chemicals Americans readily put into their bodies, mostly on the recommendation of the government and so called "medical professionals". Your diets my be a little better than ours, I don't know yet, I haven't studied it -

However, we've learned some things over the years through sources like The China Study by T. Colin Campbell so even if I don't know everything you are eating, I know if you eat certain things and never other certain things you will get sick.. and stay sick unless you change your diet. It's been proven over and over again by long term clinical studies. There are people actually Reversing things like Heart disease and cancer with good nutrition.. a plant based whole foods nutrition. This means no meat, no diary, no vegetable oil or any kind of oil, no fish, no over processed foods <- That's the part everyone hates.

It was hard enough for many of us to give up our beloved cigarettes now imagine some damn Yankee comes along and suggests everyone stops eating all their favorite foods. It's a nightmare to think about, I know. I'm usually the first in the Fish and Chips line and if you Brits have never tried my Cajun seasoned Catfish and Cajun seasoned chips (fries) ( and of course you haven't) then you guys have never really tasted good fish and chips at all! Yeah, I make the claim it's that good a recipe.. but eating these things lets face it, are killing us.

I'd like to get deeper into this but that will do for now for an introduction to the topic. I'd like to know what your experiences with heart disease is, and the role you feel diet plays in your disease.. or have you ever even thought about disease being diet related? What do you think.. would you be willing to completely change your diet if it could reverse heart disease? Has anyone tried this method and what were your experiences like? Thanks you, After a comment time, we'll continue.

 

[stols001]

I have changed diet and exercise while smoking because my doc was worried. Things did improve, I do think a certain amount of cardiovascular exercise works. Mine was a stair master for like a half hour. Yes, I reduced certain things in my diet. It worked.

Then by the end I was on a cholesterol med because it's really hard to stair master when you have 18 months of pneumonia, and you are smoking 3 ppd.

It was my lungs I wanted to save, not necessarily my heart. I was on a drug called Zetia at that point which blocks the cholesterol in your diet my cholesterol numbers were fine.

I stopped that drug after I started vaping for about 3 years, because life circumstances made it so I couldn't afford it and there was NO WAY I was going to take a statin.

I finally had a physical after I went back to work, and color me surprised, well, EVERYTHIG was perfect. Cholesterol, liver, kidneys I mean EVERYTHING was great. I was SURE I was going to leave with a lecture on like, self care and a prescription for Zetia but such was not the case.

I do 1.5 hours of yoga about 5 times a week, but that's because I enjoy it. I eat reasonably but I have NOT done the whole "no meat all vegetables" thing, because apparently I don't need to, not yet anyway.

I will say I have met folks who are like, "Yea I did the whole diet and exercise thing and it WORKED but my life was not worth living."

You kinda got to decide what works for you. I have not heard terrible thigs about the fat blocking cholesterol drugs other than Welchol can make you CRAZY constipated. That is why I took Zetia.

Anna

 

[Beamslider]

Exercise is one of the most helpful things to do for health overall including the heart. Smoking is obviously bad for health and heart so stopping smoking is a definite plus. Vaping is clearly also much better than smoking, maybe not 100% safe but better.

My overall health has vastly improved with regular exercise and vaping instead of smoking. I admit I have also change the diet to more fresh vegetable, fruit and less meat.

Doctors have told me that is good to get the heart rate up for around 20 minutes a day to the point of being short of breath. I try to do that every day.

I have managed to avoid the cholesterol drugs and blood sugar has also decrease with exercise and diet

 

[DaveP]

Diet and exercise are key to a long life. I was a member of a gym in my 20s and 30s and still have had to take a cholesterol med for the last 40 years. I've done a 3 times per week workout at home for the last 20 years and although I don't eat a spartan diet I can walk distances without getting winded. I'm retired now and still do the free weight set and a 6 mile bike ride 3 times a week. I agree that exercise is key to health.

Vaping was a life saver for me. Had I continued to smoke I would probably be in trouble by now.

 

[Katmar]

While I agree diet and exercise are great for the heart, I disagree that a diet can prevent or cure cancer. There is NO scientific proof this is true. Just ask the MILLIONS of folks who have eaten well and exercised daily and STILL got cancer. If you BREATHE, you can get cancer.

 

[stols001]

Who mentioned cancer? Did I miss something?

There are lots of genetic markers for susceptibility to cancer, and a ton of things that can cause it.

Diet and exercise will not reverse the damage done by smoking other than if you get about ten years out your risk goes way down but this has more to do with how the body regenerates, I think.

I think good diet and exercise could HELP with that regeneration but that is About It.

Anna

 

[Toronnah]

Um, why does the OP keep targeting Brits?

 

[John Phoenix]

While I agree diet and exercise are great for the heart, I disagree that a diet can prevent or cure cancer. There is NO scientific proof this is true. Just ask the MILLIONS of folks who have eaten well and exercised daily and STILL got cancer. If you BREATHE, you can get cancer.

I said it Stols001. I said, " There are people actually Reversing things like Heart disease and cancer with good nutrition"

I'll stick to this because it's true. When you understand that Cancer is normal Healthy everyday since you were born process that is always there to do a job and the reason why it develops into a problem is in large part due to diet and nutrition as well as other things, you'll see why proper nutrition can help reverse the situation. It's the same with strokes which come from the same vascular disease that effects your heart that is mostly preventable except for the aneurysm type which is genetic. If you look, you certainly will find people reversing cancer with nutrition. - Sure there are Some cancers that are Not diet related like for instance people who work in coal mines who get lung cancer, proper nutrition may not help with this especially if these people continue to work in the coal mine. Having cancer is normal and healthy - cancer getting out of control and hurting the healthy cells around it, is a problem and it's caused by lots of things so lots of factors need to be addressed for it's treatment. - Btw did you know more people die of cancer treatments in the hospital than die from the cancer itself? It's a fact Look it up. Since the cancer treatments are obviously not working and cause more damage, proper nutrition certainly couldn't hurt.

That said I mentioned it in passing as it were and cancer is not the focus of this topic.. keep in mind a lot of disease we have are preventable and reversible with proper nutrition. It's simply stopping eating the foods that hurt us and eating the foods that heal us. To suggest proper nutrition cannot do this, is denying our bodies ability to heal itself.

 

[John Phoenix]

Um, why does the OP keep targeting Brits?

I believe I have addressed this. I mentioned that Brits may have a different outlook on diet because they do things differently in the UK than we do in the USA. I didn't "Keep Targeting them", I mentioned it Once. I'd like to see feedback from Brits that may differ from feedback of Americans based on their lifestyle.

 

[stols001]

Um, my stepdad died of cancer. He was not even a health NUT he was a health FREAK. He pretty much never drank, did things like juicing, was a vegetarian, all that jazz. He was also an acupuncturist.

He couldn't handle traditional treatment which was a shame. He even had the option of going to the Mayo Clinic for a potential cure. His mother died of the same cancer, I forget what it was called.

Traditional treatment made him miserable, but I don't actually think I've met a much healthier guy (at least in terms of diet) than this dude. I mean organic everything etc., etc.

He died about a year after diagnosis, using all the "free me from cancer stuff."

You know, all that healthy stuff is wonderful and even maybe SOMETIMES for prevention. However there are certain times you really want to be in a hospital like after a really bad car accident, or if you are having a heart attack.

I will be among the first to say that some medicines really suck.

But the healhiest guy on the planet died while engaging in the healthiest practices known to "non Western medicine."

He could be alive today. Yes, I get steroids and chemo are miserable. He still died. It was his choice.

That is not a choice *I* personally would make, given the toll it would take on my family. I would try to beat cancer and not by "ground up beets and turnip juice" either. I would go with what is proven to work and has been improving all the time.

This is the same reason I take some of the medicines I do. The side effects SURE suck, but I owe it to myself and my family to not be nuts. How lovely it would be if Lithium Orotate worked, instead of real lithium for example.

I tried Lithium orotate and while it did not eat away at my teeth, it also did not WORK. I'm pretty COGENT and I can tell when stuff WORKS. I am not subject to the placebo effect, hypnotism or anything else.

I think a good diet and exercise is great-- as far as it takes you.

I am ALSO grateful to live in an age where there are medications available so I'm not chained in some "mental hospital" living in the straw.

This is also why I would never go to Britain they seem to think that stopping meds between episodes of bipolar is some sort of good idea. They don't seem to understand the concept of "kindling" in which repeated (even minor then treated episodes) lead to worse outcome and more damage over time.

I get more sane every year on lithium. I would NEVER have gotten off Suboxone without lithium.

Screw that, really.

Diet and exercise are a foundation. What happens after that is not UP to you. You have NO idea how I felt during my first episode, because I knew nothing about bipolar at all, hardly. It was like being on the worst acid trip ever, and it only got worse, and not only that there was on way to make it STOP.

It was not good at all. I had about a month untreated and by the time I got to the hospital I was freaking GRATEFUL for medications that would knock me down and out. I needed them quite badly.

Then it took about a year to sort of regain my functioning.

About 15 until I got super sober and super stable.

Illness IS sometimes. I could not eat my way out of it pray my way out of it nothing. With two parents as acupuncturists and my mom as the Head of a Sufi school, believe me I tried.

After year one of sufi school everything in my life was worse. I quit, and I'm glad I did.{

Anyway

Anna

 

[Katmar]

I said it Stols001. I said, " There are people actually Reversing things like Heart disease and cancer with good nutrition"

I'll stick to this because it's true. When you understand that Cancer is normal Healthy everyday since you were born process that is always there to do a job and the reason why it develops into a problem is in large part due to diet and nutrition as well as other things, you'll see why proper nutrition can help reverse the situation. It's the same with strokes which come from the same vascular disease that effects your heart that is mostly preventable except for the aneurysm type which is genetic. If you look, you certainly will find people reversing cancer with nutrition. - Sure there are Some cancers that are Not diet related like for instance people who work in coal mines who get lung cancer, proper nutrition may not help with this especially if these people continue to work in the coal mine. Having cancer is normal and healthy - cancer getting out of control and hurting the healthy cells around it, is a problem and it's caused by lots of things so lots of factors need to be addressed for it's treatment. - Btw did you know more people die of cancer treatments in the hospital than die from the cancer itself? It's a fact Look it up. Since the cancer treatments are obviously not working and cause more damage, proper nutrition certainly couldn't hurt.

That said I mentioned it in passing as it were and cancer is not the focus of this topic.. keep in mind a lot of disease we have are preventable and reversible with proper nutrition. It's simply stopping eating the foods that hurt us and eating the foods that heal us. To suggest proper nutrition cannot do this, is denying our bodies ability to heal itself.

I respectfully disagree. I know of several cases of different cancers that "healthy lifestyle" people got, regardless of diet or exercise. Some lived, some died. Some had treatment, some did not. Being a cancer survivor myself, my research on the subject is extensive...and, imho, CANCER is NEVER healthy. Kindly cite the scientific studies showing cancer reversal from good nutrition. Cancer is cells out of control, so it is NOT EVER healthy. Please, Sir, don't spread misinformation. It's on you to provide the "proof" you are asserting. I have a very close friend who ate healthy, exercised and still got colon cancer. Was treated and went into remission, pretty early stage, went back to eating healthy and exercising...died of colon cancer 2 years later. That's just ONE example.
YES, eating healthy and exercising can help the heart. It does NOT stop cancer, NOR does it HEAL cancer.

 

[ENAUD]

No one here gets out alive...

 

[bombastinator]

I am not a doctor so my knowledge is quite limited, but afaik heart disease is basically damage and buildup. The damage can be kept from accruing as rapidly but damage is damage.

 

[John Phoenix]

Being a cancer survivor myself, my research on the subject is extensive...and, imho, CANCER is NEVER healthy. Kindly cite the scientific studies showing cancer reversal from good nutrition. Cancer is cells out of control, so it is NOT EVER healthy.

You said it yourself. What we call cancer are the cells getting out of control but the natural process the body uses to get rid of mutated cells is a healthy natural process. Babies Have it. We Only call it Cancer when the brain doesn't tell these cells to stop attacking other cells which in turn causes a lot of problems - and that can be caused for many reasons one of which is poor diet, in these cases better nutrition can help. It's the process that is healthy and normal until the killer cells don't know when to stop - and then we call that normal healthy process Cancer.

We know a proper whole foods plant based diet has anti cancer properties. Dr Oz has this to say, " Your body can start to heal once you stop doing what's causing the problem in the first place; if you stop consuming the food that contributed to the blockages in your arteries, your body will have a better chance of rebooting and recovering. Incorporate heart-healthy foods into your diet that contain protective and preventive nutrients. A plant-based diet of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes and soy products in their natural, unrefined forms not only helps to reverse heart disease, but also possesses anti-cancer and anti-aging properties." Reverse Your Heart Disease in 28 Days

You should have a look at this from Dr Ornish on reversing Cancer with nutrition provided to us by Nutritionfacts.org Cancer Reversal Through Diet? | NutritionFacts.org (Links to a video)
Facts are yes, some cancers can be reversed by proper nutrition.

Or this, "Modern science has now concluded diet is likely the most important risk factor for cancer. In 1975, the American Health Foundation, in conjunction with the National Cancer Institute, sponsored the Key Biscayne Conference on nutrition in the causation of cancer." Cancer Diet 101: How to Eat Right When You Have Cancer

It looks to me like your research wasn't exhaustive enough. My point is not to argue with you, but to give people options they didn't know they had - some people Need these options. That's all I'm going to say about the subject of Cancer. I'll restrict my further comments to that of reversing heart disease.

 

[John Phoenix]

I am not a doctor so my knowledge is quite limited, but afaik heart disease is basically damage and buildup. The damage can be kept from accruing as rapidly but damage is damage.

I'm just a layman researcher myself and not a doctor. I started my journey on studying these things in the early 90's when I sold Herbalife nutrition products and it was noticed that people who improved their nutrition saw symptoms of disease clear up. We saw a small part of the diet and nutrition picture back then but we didn't have all the facts we do now.

Once any muscle is damaged beyond a certain point, nothing can heal it. That's my understanding. After you've actually had a heart attack you know some muscle is damaged. My end goal in all of this is to test these ideas about nutrition on myself to keep from having a first heart attack and reverse any CAD I have. I want to make sure I don't damage my heart and heal any damaged tissue that is already not beyond repair. In my mind, it's a way better alternative than going under the knife for a bypass surgery.. half of bypass surgery patients have to have a second or third bypass because heart bypasses do not last. If I can cure the disease by attacking the cause of the disease, I'd much rather do that with nutrition because modern medicine offers no such option.

 

[bombastinator]

I'm just a layman researcher myself and not a doctor. I started my journey on studying these things in the early 90's when I sold Herbalife nutrition products and it was noticed that people who improved their nutrition saw symptoms of disease clear up. We saw a small part of the diet and nutrition picture back then but we didn't have all the facts we do now.

Once any muscle is damaged beyond a certain point, nothing can heal it. That's my understanding. After you've actually had a heart attack you know some muscle is damaged. My end goal in all of this is to test these ideas about nutrition on myself to keep from having a first heart attack and reverse any CAD I have. I want to make sure I don't damage my heart and heal any damaged tissue that is already not beyond repair. In my mind, it's a way better alternative than going under the knife for a bypass surgery.. half of bypass surgery patients have to have a second or third bypass because heart bypasses do not last. If I can cure the disease by attacking the cause of the disease, I'd much rather do that with nutrition because modern medicine offers no such option.

Iirc the big one is arterial fat buildup. The stuff turns into what is more or less a series of layers of plastic on the inside of your arteries. The buildup can be slowed by things like controlling certain types of dietary fats, but there are gigantic problems involved in actually removing it because the things that actually reduce it can causes it to come off in clumps that cause even bigger problems than actually having it there in the first place. I read in one place once that that high levels of a particular drug can actually reduce it very very slowly, but it takes a long time and the level of drug required makes it in itself dangerous. I’m not sure even how true it is because I only saw it in one place once.

 

[Katmar]

You said it yourself. What we call cancer are the cells getting out of control but the natural process the body uses to get rid of mutated cells is a healthy natural process. Babies Have it. We Only call it Cancer when the brain doesn't tell these cells to stop attacking other cells which in turn causes a lot of problems - and that can be caused for many reasons one of which is poor diet, in these cases better nutrition can help. It's the process that is healthy and normal until the killer cells don't know when to stop - and then we call that normal healthy process Cancer.

We know a proper whole foods plant based diet has anti cancer properties. Dr Oz has this to say, " Your body can start to heal once you stop doing what's causing the problem in the first place; if you stop consuming the food that contributed to the blockages in your arteries, your body will have a better chance of rebooting and recovering. Incorporate heart-healthy foods into your diet that contain protective and preventive nutrients. A plant-based diet of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, legumes and soy products in their natural, unrefined forms not only helps to reverse heart disease, but also possesses anti-cancer and anti-aging properties." Reverse Your Heart Disease in 28 Days

You should have a look at this from Dr Ornish on reversing Cancer with nutrition provided to us by Nutritionfacts.org Cancer Reversal Through Diet? | NutritionFacts.org (Links to a video)
Facts are yes, some cancers can be reversed by proper nutrition.

Or this, "Modern science has now concluded diet is likely the most important risk factor for cancer. In 1975, the American Health Foundation, in conjunction with the National Cancer Institute, sponsored the Key Biscayne Conference on nutrition in the causation of cancer." Cancer Diet 101: How to Eat Right When You Have Cancer

It looks to me like your research wasn't exhaustive enough. My point is not to argue with you, but to give people options they didn't know they had - some people Need these options. That's all I'm going to say about the subject of Cancer. I'll restrict my further comments to that of reversing heart disease.

We will have to agree to disagree, John. Those site you posted are NOT scientific, but from nutrionists. And while I DO believe a healthy diet and exercise can help the heart and body, I do NOT for one minute believe it prevents cancer. There are NO TRUE studies to back the statement that it does.
Furthermore, Dr. Oz is very controversial and has given out misinformation on his show. Don't believe everything you read, especially if it is NOT proven. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I KNOW for a FACT that people still get cancer who have eaten properly and exercised. I KNOW people who ate right and exercised AFTER cancer, and STILL got it back and/or died from it.

 

[bombastinator]

We will have to agree to disagree, John. Those site you posted are NOT scientific, but from nutrionists. And while I DO believe a healthy diet and exercise can help the heart and body, I do NOT for one minute believe it prevents cancer. There are NO TRUE studies to back the statement that it does.
Furthermore, Dr. Oz is very controversial and has given out misinformation on his show. Don't believe everything you read, especially if it is NOT proven. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I KNOW for a FACT that people still get cancer who have eaten properly and exercised. I KNOW people who ate right and exercised AFTER cancer, and STILL got it back and/or died from it.

I stopped listening to anything “dr Oz” had to say when he held up a 10mg bottle of 3mg/ml liquid and claimed that one drop of it would kill you in seconds. Had I been in the audience I would have gotten up, taken it from him, and drank it. And been fine. The man does NOT do due diligence on the stuff he shills. He just takes the money and says the line.

 

[Katmar]

I stopped listening to anything “dr Oz” had to say when he held up a 10mg bottle of 3mg/ml liquid and claimed that one drop of it would kill you in seconds. Had I been in the audience I would have gotten up, taken it from him, and drank it. And been fine. The man does NOT do due diligence on the stuff he shills. He just takes the money and says the line.

And that's the problem with shills in the "natural cure" industry, too. There is NO regulation. They can claim anything. I'm not ANTI certain supplements that HAVE been studied, I take some, but the whole eat this and cure cancer is hogwash.

 

[bombastinator]

And that's the problem with shills in the "natural cure" industry, too. There is NO regulation. They can claim anything. I'm not ANTI certain supplements that HAVE been studied, I take some, but the whole eat this and cure cancer is hogwash.

Yep. It’s not a new problem. They used to be called mountebanks. Over the years the term came to simply mean “theif”