Putting the RY4 flavour debate to bed

[Doug_Dread]

Everyone is right about the flavour to an extent, but due to it's horrendous compexity, nobody comes close.

Off a Dekang RY4 bottle, carrying the warning "Very toxic by inhalation, in contact with the skin and if swallowed" and bearing a skull and crossbones symbol, the ingredients are:

Propylene glycol (75%) 3-methylcyclopentane-1.2-dione (2.5%) 1-malic acid (3%) 2.3.5.6 tetramethylpyrazine (1.5%) 2.3.5-trimethylpyrazine (0.3%) beta-dainescenaone (?) (0.2%) acetylpyrazine (0.2%) 2-acetylpyradine,ethanol (10%) rhodium (0.3%) vanillin (2.5%) ethyl acetate (0.5%) ethyl maltol (1.0%) 2-methyl-butyric acid (0.5%)

Googling the components I find:

Propylene glycol: Obvious.

3-methylcyclopentane-1.2-dione (aka Cyclotene): Flavour: caramel; maple; smoky; coffee; nutty; bready; liquorice. Safe.

Malic acid: Found in all fruits. Taste: mellow, smooth, persistent sourness. Universal flavour enhancer. Healthy.

2.3.5.6 tetramethylpyrazine: Used in flavour concentrates. Dependant on manufacturer, tastes like: Cocoa, roasted peanuts, Coffee, fermented soybean and/or chocolate and is used to flavour these products. Safety rating: Harmful if swallowed.

2.3.5-trimethylpyrazine: Same as above plus flavour: Caramel, Baked potato and peanut butter. Safety rating: Toxic if swallowed, irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin. Flammable.

Beta-dainescenaone: That’s what it looked like after I messed juice on the label, but probably beta-damascenone. Flavour: Intensely fruity odour with plum, berry, sugary and rose nuances. Also: woody, floral, herbal, green and fruity, spicy tobacco, apple; herbaceous; nutty; citrus; smoky; wine-like. Safety rating: Irritant. Irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

2-acetylpyradine ethanol: Flavour: Sweet, nutty, tobacco, popcorn. Safety rating: Toxic if swallowed, irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

Rhodium: Flavour: Sweet floral woody. Safety rating: Irritant. Irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

Vanillin: Synthetic vanilla.

Ethyl acetate: Used in flavour concentrates and perfumes. Sweet, fruity, vinegary smell. Found in wines. Also a flammable solvent. Low toxicity.

Ethyl maltol: Flavor enhancer used in wine, chocolate, vanilla, fruit flavoured drinks, pastries, candy, tobacco, cosmetics, and medicines. Used because it tends to mask bad tasting chemicals, and heightens richness and creaminess. Safe.

2-methyl-butyric acid: Flavour: apple; apricot; cheese; chocolate; grape; fruity; pineapple; sour; strawberry; woody; wine-like. Safety rating: Corrosive: Harmful to skin and if swallowed.


- I suspect the high percentage of 2-acetylpyradine ethanol (10%) is to make it taste like tobacco.

- Not too worried about the safety warnings, I'm sure they apply to the handling and storage of the bulk concentrates only.

Main source: http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/

 

[kno]

all that flavor! no wonder i love the stuff!

 

[thanas1s]

good job mf, thx a lot

 

[prof beard]

Sorry - that ingredients list appears on EVERY FLAVOUR of DK PG liquid

 

[Kent C]

Sorry - that ingredients list appears on EVERY FLAVOUR of DK PG liquid

Right on professor.

 

[Doug_Dread]

Interesting. In the same proportions? Shouldn't be, something must change from flavour to flavour or they would all taste the same. I note that the percentages fall 2.5% short of 100% but the vast difference in flavours can't just come down to one missing 2.5% ingredient. Perhaps the labels lie.

 

[Raenon]

Interesting. In the same proportions? Shouldn't be, something must change from flavour to flavour or they would all taste the same. I note that the percentages fall 2.5% short of 100% but the vast difference in flavours can't just come down to one missing 2.5% ingredient. Perhaps the labels lie.

Flavoring in the last 2.5%? That sounds about right, provided they're using STRONG base flavors, as opposed to off-the-shelf diluted stuff (or counting the diluents in the rest of the recipe, as many flavors would use almost identical ratios of all but 1-2 key ingredients).

Remember, taste buds are more powerful than we give them credit for, and able to detect minute quantities of certain chemicals (particularly the ones that either we should seek out in food, or the ones to avoid).

 

[markarich159]

Rhodium is an EXTREMELY expensive, rare transition metal in the platinum group used primarily as a component in catalysts. I don't think that info can possibly be correct about it's use as a flavoring. It'sNOTa flavoring by any means and even at 0.3% it would raise the price of an ounce of RY4 dramatically. It's currently trading at $2,600 USD per troy ounce.

 

[Doug_Dread]

Rhodium is an EXTREMELY expensive, rare transition metal in the platinum group used primarily as a component in catalysts. I don't think that info can possibly be correct about it's use as a flavoring. It'sNOTa flavoring by any means and even at 0.3% it would raise the price of an ounce of RY4 dramatically. It's currently trading at $2,600 USD per troy ounce.

Naa, Lignum Rhodium aka Rosewood Oil would probably taste a bit better.

 

[markarich159]

Naa, Lignum Rhodium aka Rosewood Oil would probably taste a bit better.

Boy, the Chinese should do a bit better in their labeling descriptions; Lignum rhodium(latin for rosewood referring to a particular species of the Canary Island rosewood tree-from which the essential oil is extracted) and Rhodium(metal) couldn't be more different.

Even lignum rhodium would be wrong as that refers to the wood of the tree not the extract from the tree.

Why wouldn't they just list lignum rhodium extract or better yet, rosewood oil. It's more specific and, in terms of US and other countries labeling laws, more legal.

 

[prof beard]

Someone needs either spectacles or a magnifying glass! I used BOTH and the ingredients list DOESN"T say rhodium! It says RHODINOL.

"Rhodinol is a monoterpene alcohol that occurs naturally in geranium and citronella oils. It is used in cosmetics and perfumery to impart flowery odors." (WikiP entry - didn't have time for a proper reference)

 

[videvinci]

So anybody out there- where do we find the ingredients for Ry 4?

 

[prof beard]

In terms of the actual flavourings used - I would be surprised if any suppliers revealed that.

 

[markarich159]

Rhodium: Flavour: Sweet floral woody. Safety rating: Irritant. Irritating to respiratory system, eyes, skin.

I'm just going by what I see in the OP.

 

[Doug_Dread]

Someone needs either spectacles or a magnifying glass! I used BOTH and the ingredients list DOESN"T say rhodium! It says RHODINOL.

Alas, neither is very effective when the print is smudged by juicy fingers. It was my best guess from the readable letters, but I'm sure you're correct.

 

[prof beard]

Alas, neither is very effective when the print is smudged by juicy fingers. It was my best guess from the readable letters, but I'm sure you're correct.

I have umpteen Dekang bottles (and Liberty Flights ones with the same list) - it's definitely Rhodinol

 

[ExFumidus]

Yep ... it's most definitely Rhodinol ! ... for mine says that too !

The main taste (the sweetish one) that I get from RY4 , the one that tastes just like slightly toasted/burnt "cotton candy" ... Is basically mostly from the Ethyl Maltol (with the help of the Vanillin, for the more caramel-ly/vanilla nuances).

I have actually just made my own juice using some Tobacco Absolute, Ethyl Maltol and Ethyl Vanillin, which actually tastes pretty close to the RY4 that I had. (As quite a few of them differ somewhat !) ...
I am now going to add some "pyrazine" to it as well, to see if I can get it to taste even closer. ... But so far I'm actually pretty pleased with it !

 

[gotsteam?]

Where did you get your Tobacco Absolute and your Ethyl Vanillin?

I've tasted only three RY4 mixes and the one from Liberty-Flights
doesent taste anything like the other two (which taste marvelous).
The Liberty-Flights RY4 tasts like a bunch of mixed funky chemicals.
Anyone else concur?