Pub Licensing body to ban e cigarettes!!

[Hazi]

I just saw a friend of mine who watches alot of TV. She was watching the program "This Morning" and they were discussing the e-cigs apparantly. Also, she said they had the Pub, club etc chief of licensing on and he was saying that they are banning the use of the e-cigs in ALL pubs and clubs etc because of the impression they will create. Anyone caught using one will be asked to either "put it out" or leave the premises and if they argue the fact it's not a cigarette, the police will be called to escort them off the premises.

Now, I for one actually welcomed the smoking ban because it meant that I would smoke less on a night out and therefore it would benefit me. However, I am appaulled that those of us trying to quit or just comply with the law by using an e-cig instead are clearly being discriminated against, I think it is bang out of order.

They banned smoking, why not ban alcohol, it is just as harmful. They sell non alcoholic drinks in pubs etc so why not allow non tobacco products to be "smoked". A person smoking a cigarette or e-cig is not likely to lose control of ones self or cause harm to others. A person drinking alcohol can become incredibly stupid, irresponsible and downright nasty and a danger to the public. Where's the justice I ask!!

I would be interested to hear what other people think of this. I haven't actually seen the program myself but if anyone has, it would be interesting to know if my friend got her facts completely right or not.

Look forward to hearing from you all and hope this is the right place for posting this.

Alison

 

[leaford]

See, this is why I want more people to know about these things; it's alot easier for this guy to do this when the vast majority of the public don't know anything about it, and hence don't care.

 

[Oliver]

Do you know any more about who this guy was?

Yes this is the right place to post it but I am going to copy it into the general discussion area to make sure that more people see it.

SJ

 

[trog100]

i cant say as i am surprised.. officialdom will see it as a crack in their defences..

being as you favoured the real ban but object to the e ban.. i smell a whiff of hypocrisy.. just bear in mind not all will know its not real smoke and some are offended by the mere thought or sight of "smoke".. the secondhand killer smoke aguement as been very effective..

plus the biggy.. it creates problem as regards whats real and whats not.. how does the publican know at a distance whether its real smoke or fake smoke.. he doent neither does the average anti smoking bigot.. so it gets banned.. the easy way out..

ultimately the desire to make these things look like real cigarettes is a mistake from a pubic acceptance point of view.. fake gun.. real gun.. fake ciggy real ciggy..

just doing the devils argueing for him..

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

And you are dead-on, Trog. This is exactly why bars in Arizona began banning e-smoking when the things popped up out there from njoy and Crown 7. The customer at the end of the bar doesn't know the person at the other end is e-smoking. Big problem! So e-smoking was just banned. Problem solved.

It WAS a mistake to mimic real smoking devices. And it was customers (myself included) who demanded big clouds of vapor, when China said invisible might be better. They were right.

Your gun analogy is right on, too. It would not be smart to whip out that fake handgun in a police station, where real guns abound. It's not smart to whip out a fake cig where real ones were smoked not long ago. Acceptance of e-cigs, if it comes, will be a slow process of educating and winning over the masses who despise smokers now. Not an easy task.

 

[squeezes]

I suppose it is a temporary measure until e-smoking gets known. After all, Sedansa makers were wise when they decided to put a green light

Here in my country we still can smoke in bars. There is a law that allows it in bars SMALLER that 100 sq meters :roll: And the vast mayority of the bigger than that ones just break the law.

 

[trog100]

I suppose it is a temporary measure until e-smoking gets known. After all, Sedansa makers were wise when they decided to put a green light

Here in my country we still can smoke in bars. There is a law that allows it in bars SMALLER that 100 sq meters :roll: And the vast mayority of the bigger than that ones just break the law.

in the UK we have no-smoking enforcers.. dudes employed by the local authorities to go around and report "smoking" offences.. anywhere designated as a "work place" or public building.. a group of smoking drinkers huddling on the pavement outside UK pubs (and work places) has now become the norm..

in fact the external "huddling" is now part of the night out.. he he he

we are run by fools.. but they were voted in by fools so its to be expected.. he he he

trog

 

[Stephy]

trog100 wrote:
plus the biggy.. it creates problem as regards whats real and whats not.. how does the publican know at a distance whether its real smoke or fake smoke.. he doent neither does the average anti smoking bigot.. so it gets banned.. the easy way out..


I've been trying to esmoke publicly for the last couple of weeks since I first got my cigs (which I'm loving by the way - real smoke free for two weeks with minimal cravings!).

Two of my locals (I have a number of them, I haven't tried all of them yet.) have agreed to let me esmoke (as has my local kebab shop).

One of them is a live music pub. They have agreed I can smoke on their premises when there is no band on and when the pub is quiet but when they are very busy they're worried that anologue smokers will see me smoking and spark up the real thing. Their problem then is hunting down the real smoker among the esmokers.

At the moment I'm the only esmoker that frequents their establishment but, as more people begin esmoking, as they are in my town, it will become more difficult to tell which of us are law breakers and which aren't. I am good friends with the landlord and lady so I know they are genuinely concerned and not just going for the easy option.

I am very concerned that those of us that are responsible enough to want to deal with our addiction in a considerably more sensible and considerate way are already being thwarted and treated like we have leprosy (as real smokers are). My point is that most publicans have suffered as a result of the smoking ban and they are nearly all for a way to allow their punters to "smoke" in the comfort of their establishment. I sympathise with their predicament as they are liable for some hefty fines if they're found to be breaking the law. If all ecigs had a funky coloured light on the end to set us apart from the crowd it would be very easy to see who's breaking the law (red light, get out!) and real smokers are less likely to confuse esmoking with the real thing. Sometimes the simplest ideas can make the biggest difference.

 

[Philip]

I went to a casino in London yesterday and they are actively promoting e-smoking. They had a poster on the reception desk with big letter heading "Now you don't need to go outside to smoke" and then an advert selling the Gamucci classic.

I asked the receptionist if it was okay to smoke these inside and she said "Yes of course".

So for the next couple of hours as I was playing blackjack I was able to get my fix from my e-cig and no-one battered an eyelid. They also had plenty more of these adverts around. I guess the smoking ban has hit them hard and this is their way of trying to combat that.

 

[TropicalBob]

That's excellent. Crown 7 reportedly did the same thing in Nevada. It hammered out agreements with some casinos to allow e-smoking. Not sure what the present situation is, but that sounded good to me. We need a "fun" way to introduce e-smoking in close proximity to non-smokers. Gambling is one way. Cruise ships would be another (they are clamping down hard on all tobacco smoking). Only later will get e-smoking viewed as "tolerable" in present no-smoking areas.

 

[RatInDaHat]

Well, not sure about the rest of Nevada, but in Vegas smoking is still allowed on the gaming floor. So smoke or e-smoke it up there.

 

[katink]

A dutch forum has had the idea of making a few thousand small sticky-signs for on windows. A local sedansa-dealer kindly sponsored it. On the left side a red circle with in it a burning cigarette (with a bar or cross through it); next to it, slightly overlapping, a green circle with an e-cig (penstyle for the difference) and 'e-smoking allowed' as text. At the bottom in small letters the forum-url, so anyone seeing it knows where to go for info.
Forum-members have them in their pocket when going about, and leave them behind wherever they find a place where the owner allows it or welcomes it.
I think a second dutch forum is starting on the same idea now too, so hopefully soon a lót of bars, shops and whatever will be having these signs on their doors or windows.

Idea for here perhaps too, something like this?

 

[dnakr]

by katink

A dutch forum has had the idea of making a few thousand small sticky-signs for on windows. A local sedansa-dealer kindly sponsored it. On the left side a red circle with in it a burning cigarette (with a bar or cross through it); next to it, slightly overlapping, a green circle with an e-cig (penstyle for the difference) and 'e-smoking allowed' as text. At the bottom in small letters the forum-url, so anyone seeing it knows where to go for info.
Forum-members have them in their pocket when going about, and leave them behind wherever they find a place where the owner allows it or welcomes it.
I think a second dutch forum is starting on the same idea now too, so hopefully soon a lót of bars, shops and whatever will be having these signs on their doors or windows.

Idea for here perhaps too, something like this?

What a great idea. I wonder how many places would allow us to do this in the United States?

 

[RatInDaHat]

Not sure, but i do think it is a good idea.

 

[Oliver]

I absolutely want to do this in the UK...........Stay posted!

SJ

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Be interesting to cost this. I'd be willing to contribute and distribute. But I get the feeling that we might run into problems here in the UK, as most pubs are owned by huge chains and the manager on site usually has little say in company policy. Likely responses would range from "more than my jobs worth" from the honest cogs, to "get out of my pub and take your filth with you" from the drones who call themselves "landlord" when they're no such thing.

Could be worth sending some literature explaining our devices and proposing the stickies to the marketing departments of the major breweries - they've gotta be feeling the pinch since the ban hit and luring us muck-suckers back inside has to be high on their agenda - particularly since the secondhand smoke yowlers banging on about being finally able to use pubs never showed up.

That Catweazle nutter who runs Wetherspoons has the reputation of being open to new ideas, particularly ones that .... a snook at the establishment (although with nearly 700 pubs his firm is a fairly substantial chunk of it).

Another great idea on the forum. Thanks Katink

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

Hi Katink

As I'm not very familiar with bars in the Netherlands, could you answer a question? Are the bars usually owned by the person running the place? I'm asking because if you are able to ask the owner to place the sticky, then you have a good chance of a positive reply. Here in the UK there are very few independent pubs so it's the old problem - getting good information to people who have the power to make use of it.

Emp

 

[TheEmperorOfIceCream]

particularly ones that c&") a snook at the establishment

my first censorship - and I wasn't even swearing!

 

[Mr.Darcy]

ive seen the dutch stickers,they look good.and a great idea too.

 

[katink]

Hi Katink

As I'm not very familiar with bars in the Netherlands, could you answer a question? Are the bars usually owned by the person running the place? I'm asking because if you are able to ask the owner to place the sticky, then you have a good chance of a positive reply. Here in the UK there are very few independent pubs so it's the old problem - getting good information to people who have the power to make use of it.

Emp

Divided is the answer; there are chains, and there are 'own owners'. Rough guess: 40%/60%. But that doesn't make all that much difference in the Netherlands; and it might not make much difference in UK or US either. You could search for their (hmm, lacking english word here..) organisation that represents all of them (?) towards government etc.
In the netherlands, thát organisation is trying to find ways to live through all those bans; and that organisation has published that they think all pubs etc should allow the e-cig; with an explanation along with it, why e-smoking simply cán't be forbidden under the anti-tobacco-laws.
Dutch forum-members have that piece of the top-organisation typed out and on them; if they meet some hard-head, they ask him to read the paper made by his own branch-organisation (ha, thát's the word I was looking for!).
So it would seem wise to look through publications from such branchorganisations; and if nothing shows up, perhaps go to them first?