Our Elected Officials are Ignorant Concerning E-Cigs!

[Berylanna]

Cool!
My opinion is you are not without bias when doing either journalism or acting as scientist.

Duh, we're homo sapiens. Nevertheless, bias comes in different degrees, and ignorance makes it easier to be extremely biased on any subject.

How might I demonstrate otherwise to you?

Your comment that we have already lost makes this irrelevant.

I have no program in mind. If the conversion thing to any degree is a nuke, then the battle is already over.
eCigs will be regulated as much, likely more, than smokes and vapers will have to deal with that.
I still think vapers can 'win' in a sense, but the free / open market is dead (if conversion of any sort is seen as a nuke).

I think the odds are 90% that you are right. I NEED the remaining 10% chance. Converting NON-SMOKERS is a nuke. They're already shooting those at us, I am pleading with you not to implement friendly fire.

I'd be willing to buy on the black market, even though I've never done that with anything in my life, but I am concerned that the vendors I depend on will NOT sell on the black market. And I don't know how to get more than .3% nicotine or any WTA's into vapable form without quitting work and going back for a Ph.D. -- something that would nuke my unemployed family members who are making me furniture and cutting my hedges to keep eating.

 

[Jman8]

Your comment that we have already lost makes this irrelevant.

Just wish to be clear that my comment that we have already lost is in response to idea that non-smokers must always be discouraged from vaping. If that is the case, the market will be limited, and will die at some point. Add in FDA and ANTZ and I say it dies sooner than later, with that stipulation at work.

Fortunately, I don't believe that'll happen and the market for vaping will be alive and well for at least the next 25 years, possibly the next 2025 years.

I think the odds are 90% that you are right. I NEED the remaining 10% chance. Converting NON-SMOKERS is a nuke. They're already shooting those at us, I am pleading with you not to implement friendly fire.

Even if I did nothing, which is pretty close to what I've done with regard to non-smokers, I believe eCig community will convert the non-nicotine users. Entice them. Encourage them. All positively spun articles, ads and commentary on eCigs do this. A person (over 18 or not) could rather easily come to a vape forum, make a few false claims and have dozens of vapers suggesting great products, great eLiquid and promoting the heck out of vaping. So, in reality, Jman need do nothing and the eCig community will be taking care of converting non-nic users into nic-users while exercising a sense of deniability around the fact that they are.

I'd be willing to buy on the black market, even though I've never done that with anything in my life, but I am concerned that the vendors I depend on will NOT sell on the black market. And I don't know how to get more than .3% nicotine or any WTA's into vapable form without quitting work and going back for a Ph.D. -- something that would nuke my unemployed family members who are making me furniture and cutting my hedges to keep eating.

I hear what you're saying here, but the thing with 'black market' is it is very very challenging to describe what that experience will be like, other than to use other things that are currently on a black market and all of which are far less tame than nicotine. I'm guessing many black market dealers will have very little hesitation being dealers with the only exception being - how do I know for sure this person I'm selling to is over 18 and/or is not some undercover anti-type person. Which incidentally is a current problem in the gray (or open) market that exists now.

 

[Berylanna]

Just wish to be clear that my comment that we have already lost is in response to idea that non-smokers must always be discouraged from vaping.

Although on the forum we generally discourage them, if they came to the forum they already got mostly-converted, we did not go looking for them. And I am actually NOT asking you to discourage them on this forum, but I'd rather you answered in a more-or-less neutral manner than encourage them where the FDA and ANTZ could see it and cut-and-paste it.[/QUOTE]

If that is the case, the market will be limited, and will die at some point. Add in FDA and ANTZ and I say it dies sooner than later, with that stipulation at work.

Totally different time frame. I'm asking for caution throughout 2013, and by September or so we'll know whether or not the next year or two require caution. Considering the size of the cigarette market worldwide, I see NO danger that the ecig market will wither in my lifetime (which I admit might be a lot shorter than yours) and by then we'll have had time to do research into the usefulness of vaping for treating obesity, senility, etc. Either the market will die with the last smokers on Earth or people will eventually accept a ban on combustible cigarettes BASED UPON the continuing availability of e-cigs. Either way the market would remain if it is needed.

Fortunately, I don't believe that'll happen and the market for vaping will be alive and well for at least the next 25 years, possibly the next 2025 years.

It's already dead in Australia, Singapore, Brazil, probably about to be assassinated in Europe, and if the FDA limits us to sealed prefilled cartos with flavors chosen by BT, I'll end up smoking. So, frankly, if WTA's are banned because vapers passively accept severe restrictions on product availability, y'all can just die with me. I'll start fighting for a TOTAL ban.

ven if I did nothing, which is pretty close to what I've done with regard to non-smokers,

Thanks for that!

I believe eCig community will convert the non-nicotine users. Entice them. Encourage them. All positively spun articles, ads and commentary on eCigs do this. A person (over 18 or not) could rather easily come to a vape forum, make a few false claims and have dozens of vapers suggesting great products, great eLiquid and promoting the heck out of vaping.

If they come TO US, then we didn't entice them. However, if they come TO US before 2013 is over with, even the cut-and-pasteable appearance of enticing them could kill me.

 

[Jman8]

If they come TO US, then we didn't entice them. However, if they come TO US before 2013 is over with, even the cut-and-pasteable appearance of enticing them could kill me.

My point is that advertisements, articles, blogs may entice them. We may encourage them. I think we do promotion, of sorts, as well here. I am enticed to try the umpteen hundred products that are made known on this forum. A lurker can easily be non-smoker and gather enough info from our posted messages to become a well knowledgeable vaper.

I have no active plans to go off forum on some conversion campaign, so you can rest assured on that count. But if non-nic user came to me in person, I might encourage them. As I have done very little of this so far, this isn't something I'm hell bent on doing, but I won't make the claim that it is by far better to discourage all non-smokers / non-nic users of vaping. I believe it is better for the market to have more vapers, not fewer.

 

[Berylanna]

My point is that advertisements, articles, blogs may entice them. We may encourage them. I think we do promotion, of sorts, as well here. I am enticed to try the umpteen hundred products that are made known on this forum. A lurker can easily be non-smoker and gather enough info from our posted messages to become a well knowledgeable vaper.

I have no active plans to go off forum on some conversion campaign, so you can rest assured on that count. But if non-nic user came to me in person, I might encourage them. As I have done very little of this so far, this isn't something I'm hell bent on doing, but I won't make the claim that it is by far better to discourage all non-smokers / non-nic users of vaping. I believe it is better for the market to have more vapers, not fewer.

You want a fast ramp-up of the market? You want people that really care what we are doing? So far I have found close relatives amd spouses of smokers about 1000% more interested than smokers, non-smokers, or anybody else.