Nicotine, WTA, and some TYRANNY!

[Kookie]

I will have to take a nicotine test for a new job soon. I am preparing with some research. I have to ask this question: Is there anything in WTA that is directly relatable to nicotine? I am going to have to quit cold turkey soon to pass this test. I have quit the snus which will just make me vape more, but I’m trying. I will become so unbearable it’s not funny. Miss my snus already. I figure I probably get more nic from snus than vaping, so I thought I’d quit that early.

I will be getting more data on the test itself soon. (Holiday weekend here.) I assume it tests strictly for nic. I’m just curious if WTA has anything that will also affect the test. I suppose the point is moot since I have to quit and try to purge as much nic as I can before the test, but like I said, I’m curious.

I looked at my favorite Aroma ejuices w/o WTA (never looked at that page) and it looks like there is no 0 nic. (I know… it seems silly.) Thought it might be cool to vape what I like and am used to. Too bad. Any suggestions for decent tobacco favored eliquid at 0 nic? My favorites are Beatle juice, Sahara, Turkish, GI Joe, and Virginia. Something like that at 0 nic.

I think it might be important to at least vape at 0 nic. Maybe trick my brain and not go so nuts. Actually I am a little frightened to do this, but I just really need to get paid decently for my work. I need this job. Well, I need the pay. The job will be a bit soul crushing as implied by the freakin' nic test.

 

[snork]

Boy, I hope Jerry sees this and responds, a good answer to this is right up his alley (as I put him on the spot).
Seems to me I read that (some, all?) nic tests actually test for a substance produced after nicotine is metabolized. Could be dead wrong though. Whether minor alkaloids enter the equation...?

 

[lctrc]

If the test is strictly for nicotine, maybe not. But for determining general tobacco use I would suspect that the minor alkaloids are tested for as well since they aren't present in NRT products.

 

[Kookie]

NRT? I prefer not to guess what that could mean please. "Lucy! Splain'?!"

 

[homeprogreen]

lol I think I would just walk in for test vaping away and tell them i don't smoke so you can stuff your test

 

[snork]

NRT= nicotine replacement therapy. Patch, gum, etc.

 

[radiokaos]

Boy, I hope Jerry sees this and responds, a good answer to this is right up his alley (as I put him on the spot).
Seems to me I read that (some, all?) nic tests actually test for a substance produced after nicotine is metabolized. Could be dead wrong though. Whether minor alkaloids enter the equation...?

give me 2 hours to give a nice response.

I have to make a drive to the warehouse to deliver product and update our inventory.

When I get back to my house I will be sure to address Kookie's questions.

 

[Kookie]

Well, then I wouldn't get the job. (And the much needed pay bump.) It is based on the results of the test. NO NICOTINE. No patch, no IV bag of nic, no NTR what so ever (thank you for the definition), no nothing. They only test this at hire. So, I can do whatever afterwards as long as I pass the test. I believe it may be for insurance reasons but not exactly sure. I agree, oppressive and not progressively looking at alternative solutions to a perceived problem.

Opps that was a reply to HomePro. This is going fast lol.

Thanks Jerry.

Also, I am working on getting more information about the parameters of the test. I have some friends in the lab.

 

[radiokaos]

Well, then I wouldn't get the job. (And the much needed pay bump.) It is based on the results of the test. NO NICOTINE. No patch, no IV bag of nic, no NTR what so ever (thank you for the definition), no nothing. They only test this at hire. So, I can do whatever afterwards as long as I pass the test. I believe it may be for insurance reasons but not exactly sure. I agree, oppressive and not progressively looking at alternative solutions to a perceived problem.

Opps that was a reply to HomePro. This is going fast lol.

Thanks Jerry.

Also, I am working on getting more information about the parameters of the test. I have some friends in the lab.

There are a lot of parameters to look at.

I know this sucks but employers have the right NOT to hire applicants that are nicotine users (including gum, patch, and ecig).

There are a few variables to look and the levels of cotinine (anagram of nicotine thanks wiki).

My guess is that they will do a blood draw but I could be wrong. Urine and Hair are a little different. If its Hair expect to refrain for at least 90 days.

I'm not a expert in this but I have friends who had this testing.

I had it in the past for life insurance and stopped during about 3 months before testing (yes it was hell).

I don't want to even suggest other alkaloids since they could result in a false positive result. Best way to pass the test is to refrain on all nic products.

I know thats not what you want to hear. Let me talk to Dr. Fred to get more info.

 

[peterforpats]

so if you quit long enough to pass some test what happens when you resume using and they find out(and they will find out)? and if you quit long enough to pass a test why not stay quit? I love aroma and their magic elixir, but if I could walk away from the vaping I would. it was hard enough to give up smoking after 45 years but I don't see me quitting vaping anytime soon. at some point I may try, but I am having too much fun spending money on gadgets and juice. a habit is a habit after all, this just seems a little healthier and a lot more fun!

 

[Mr.Mann]

Fellow Detroiter here. This is mostly what I sent you in a PM, but if you check here first, I wanted you to see it. I hope you don't mind me chiming in, but I wanted to run a few things by you.

First of all, as others have said, you are going to have to remain abstinent from nicotine products: any level of nic juice, WTA--which is majority nic--second hand smoke (in close quarters for extended periods), handling eliquid/ old attys with residual nic juice, etc., for as long as possible, or at least until after the test.

I have several one-step cotinine tests (a test for nicotine) that I can send you, or hand to you, so you can do a cursory check on your results. I made a post about mine: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1319-vapers-newborns-infants.html#post9388208 If they take plasma samples, I wouldn't fret further for (as far as I know) the test wouldn't be any more sensitive than urine samples as urine and plasma have similar excretion rates of the metabolite of nicotine, cotinine.

A couple questions: When is your test? How long has it been since you vaped any nicotine?

Now, I can't say what this job is going to do, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just a piss or blood (plasma) test--actually, I know the DMC does plasma tests for nicotine as they now have a "no nicotine" policy (notice the wording is not "no smoking") for new hires (previous employees were grandfathered in, which is why you'll still see employees of the hospital outside smoking). The reason I think it won't be hair is because a) hair testing, in this scenario, is usually for research purposes on usage/exposure--meaning, obviously, nicotine can get into hair through passive exposure and render test results with "false" positives, and b) hair tests are more costly and take more time. Actually, prolonged second-hand smoke can provide "false" positives in urine, but I imagine it would need to be considerably more exposure to second-hand smoke to produce those results than the case for hair.

Having said that, it could be a hair test but let's hope otherwise. But if it's the hospital I am thinking, it'll be plasma.

Just stay away from nic, and I mean even handling eliquid or old attys as nicotine can be absorbed through the skin--even if that's extreme, the goal is most important. As boring as it may sound, err, look, you could get away with just vaping straight VG or PG/VG--I've done it and it's really not half bad--but make sure to use new attys and clean your contacts (vaping residual nicotine juice on contacts or coils would not be total abstinence). Zero nic juice would be fine, and I know most vendors do their best for QC, but I've had mislabeled juices and/or wrong bottles sent to me and without me checking to make sure, I was either vaping the wrong juice or the wrong nic level--no need to risk it with such high stakes (IMO).

I think you should be safe after a week of abstinence (as long as the the test is piss or plasma), but the longer the better.

Here is a link to a free pubmed article about The use of the signs of nicotine in their hair as a tool for the assessment of exposure to tobacco smoke (You are going to have to set your screen to translate to English)


p.s. You may want to lay off cauliflower, eggplant, potatoes, and tomatoes as they all contain nicotine and could, themselves, render a "false" positive. I wonder if next they'll ban consumption of veggies???

The Nicotine Content of Common Vegetables (New England Journal of Medicine)

 

[snork]

Yep, best advice is abstinence. Safe no-brainer.
I'm interested in whether the minor alkaloids themselves would trigger the test. Not that that would happen, we don't have minor alkaloid juice Curious whether any of them metabolize identically.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yep, best advice is abstinence. Safe no-brainer.
I'm interested in whether the minor alkaloids themselves would trigger the test. Not that that would happen, we don't have minor alkaloid juice Curious whether any of them metabolize identically.

From what I have been able to understand from research--anatabine, nornicotine (the more plentiful minor tobacco alkaloids) and anabasine, all have varying excretion rates. They are also markedly lower in concentrations (obviously), and I don't see (as you point out) how one would get those in their system without accompanying nic. Would the minor alkaloids trigger the test? I think if for some reason they showed up, but not nic (if they have longer half-lives than nic, which a couple do), they could possibly be used as a biomarker, or a type of circumstantial evidence, for tobacco usage--but that's only a guess.

 

[radiokaos]

I hope everyone can understand its a little hectic here today. However, I will try to get in touch with a toxicologist in Rochester, MN to see what he says.

I'm in no way a expert on this and don't want to offer incorrect advice.

Glad to see Mr.Mann here offering some help.

 

[Kookie]

Oh I am really sorry about not replying for what has it been, A MONTH!? Man, I just became a super..... because I basically quit cold turkey shortly after this post. And I mean that! All of my relationships are certainly strained. Here in week four I am STILL craving a cigarette like a MF’er. To boot, I am not that much closer to getting a job at DMC.

Let me splain.

Here in week four I hardly touch my PV anymore. Sometimes I grab it while at work and that craving hits me hard. I went to the drug store at first to get some straight VG. That sucked hard for me. I got online some flavor extracts. That helped but my choices sucked.

The thing that is getting me is my super sweets cravings. Yes, I have tried the healthy ways, but I will need candy so hard I could cut someone’s throat with a spoon. Actually, been eating ....ty overall. I think I am going to gain back all the weight I lost working here at the airport. (The airport can be an awesome work out every day.)

I am still a bit absent minded too. I was super stupid two weeks ago. The heavy dizziness has gone away. I still get a minor spell every so often. I am still extra dumb.

Also I got some quantitative nicotine tests to see how I might be coming along. Yikes, not all that well, but not bad as well considering I have smoked for a very long time. Here are some pics of the test I did at week three:

As you can see I had failed. I think I will retest in two to three weeks from that test. So, in a week or two. DMC stated that the minimum is 5ng/ml. Seems incredibly small. I am, from the test, between 200 and 500ng/ml still. It seems quite high for not touching any nic for three weeks. (I may be able to sneak a test from DMC to see officially what my level might be. Mhaha.) Here is the test quantities:

Here is a link (if it works in ECF) to the PDF where I got the chart for the test. If you’re interested, it has further data: http://www.testcountry.com/NicAlert_Instructions_and_Studies.pdf

Gee, if I can’t get my levels low enough in another two weeks I don’t know if I want to pursue this.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Wow, I had a feeling it was the DMC.

PM sent.

The testing is done through the DMC's occupational health. That department is pretty centralized, but I would suspect that if you can manage to stay completely off nictoine/away from second hand smoke in closed quarters, you should be fine soon enough.

That said, you have to stay completely abstinent! Yes, completely.

 

[Kookie]

Yeah what do they call it, 4k? I know, I've become that ... hole ex-smoker where I get pissy when someone lights up near me. In my defense, I am trying to get a better job and also I am quite jealous, damn it!

 

[homeprogreen]

that blows. I do wish you luck getting the job though

 

[div]

wow...totally sucks and wishing you all the best with this. I seriously have to consider if I can go the same route....been itching for a new job and well you know, these same questions are likely to come up....sigh

 

[Mr.Mann]

Yeah what do they call it, 4k? I know, I've become that ... hole ex-smoker where I get pissy when someone lights up near me. In my defense, I am trying to get a better job and also I am quite jealous, damn it!

You're almost near the finish line. Just a few more laps. You can do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And when you do it, go home and vape yourself silly! It'll likely only take a few puffs with that much abstaining though. LOL