Now, now the ANTZ are our friends. Well, they would be if E Cigs were brought to market by BP.
New Vaccine for Nicotine Addiction
- Thread starter Cool_Breeze
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
In the military ... We had something called a Blanket Party
I would be all for having such a party with the ANTZ as the guests of honor.
so...there are a couple of primary issues with any vaccine of this type.
the first is that you can inject someone with the vaccine, and they'll make a few antibodies against nicotine, but antibody production really only gears up when you're exposed to the substance. So it's not likely to be very effective against people who aren't exposed to nicotine. If it were safe, the possibility exists that the vaccine would block any pleasurable effects from nicotine if someone was experimenting with smoking. It wouldn't do a darn thing for the carbon monoxide high.
However, if used by someone who has nicotine cravings, the vaccine would be one of the most miserable methods to quit that i could think of. If people who use nicotine/smoke try the vaccine, it will block the effect of nicotine, but not the cravings, and a subset of people are likely to try to use more and more nicotine to assuage the cravings. Since antibody production is also slower than nicotine intake, individuals will have some success in reducing the cravings just by taking in more nicotine - or smoking - even more. Not the most healthy option. There is/was a similar vaccine that was made against a substance that used to be in coca-cola, and it has not been very successful or widely used AFAIK, possibly because some people just used a whole bunch more of the substance.
The other more problematic part is what happens to the nicotine that is bound by the antibodies, and do the antibodies bind only nicotine? Studies on the vaccine have been ongoing for more than a couple of years. A couple of early rat studies indicated that the antibody-bound nicotine was sequestered in some tissues of the body, and none of the early studies that i looked at included data that showed that antibodies bound only nicotine and nothing else.
ETA, here's a discussion about it from a couple of years ago http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/outside/73315-anti-nicotine-vaccine.html#post1085061
the first is that you can inject someone with the vaccine, and they'll make a few antibodies against nicotine, but antibody production really only gears up when you're exposed to the substance. So it's not likely to be very effective against people who aren't exposed to nicotine. If it were safe, the possibility exists that the vaccine would block any pleasurable effects from nicotine if someone was experimenting with smoking. It wouldn't do a darn thing for the carbon monoxide high.
However, if used by someone who has nicotine cravings, the vaccine would be one of the most miserable methods to quit that i could think of. If people who use nicotine/smoke try the vaccine, it will block the effect of nicotine, but not the cravings, and a subset of people are likely to try to use more and more nicotine to assuage the cravings. Since antibody production is also slower than nicotine intake, individuals will have some success in reducing the cravings just by taking in more nicotine - or smoking - even more. Not the most healthy option. There is/was a similar vaccine that was made against a substance that used to be in coca-cola, and it has not been very successful or widely used AFAIK, possibly because some people just used a whole bunch more of the substance.
The other more problematic part is what happens to the nicotine that is bound by the antibodies, and do the antibodies bind only nicotine? Studies on the vaccine have been ongoing for more than a couple of years. A couple of early rat studies indicated that the antibody-bound nicotine was sequestered in some tissues of the body, and none of the early studies that i looked at included data that showed that antibodies bound only nicotine and nothing else.
ETA, here's a discussion about it from a couple of years ago http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/outside/73315-anti-nicotine-vaccine.html#post1085061
Last edited:
I guess you would no longer have the pleasurable effects from eating eggplant, peppers and tomatoes either then. ~sigh~
This sounds a bit sketchy.
I think I will stick to my nic addition rather than having my liver genetically modified thank you very much.
I think I will stick to my nic addition rather than having my liver genetically modified thank you very much.
I only vaccinate my dog for rabies.... because she travels with me... and because they usually cause problems in dogs I like to fore-go the ones she doesn't need. Ill pass... that is just me though.
Reminds me of the last time my elderly father was in the hospital.
Since I have power of attorney ... The nurse asked if he had a
a recent flu shot. I replied NO ... No one in our family wants to
run the risks. She said ... "I wouldn't have taken the shot either
but the hospital requires that we all employees take the shot"
Since I have power of attorney ... The nurse asked if he had a
a recent flu shot. I replied NO ... No one in our family wants to
run the risks. She said ... "I wouldn't have taken the shot either
but the hospital requires that we all employees take the shot"
CES- Thanks for the info. Took me 2-1/2 hours to realy understand it.(I hope) Interesting that at stage 3 the subjects that did not stick to substained abstinence, were only smoking about 10 cigs a day rather than the 20 before the study. Don't realy get this, because the vacine is supposed to block the nic. Could this be because of lower micrograms of vacine to some subjects? I figured they would be smoking like twice as many to get some nic past the vaccine and to the receptors. Interesting also that placebo had 6% success at 12 months. Not as high as the Nic Vax 16% but a damn sight cheeper too. Also interesting that they give counceling at target susation point.
With a projected 2.1 billion in sales of nicotine vacines in 2018 there is a lot of money in that 10% offset from placebos.
With a projected 2.1 billion in sales of nicotine vacines in 2018 there is a lot of money in that 10% offset from placebos.
hmmm. The lack of abstinence at stage 3 could have been due to not producing enough antibodies...or it could be that the nicotine effects are completely blocked, but that smoking isn't just about the nicotine. It could be the other chemicals in smoke, or just about the hand to mouth (as so many of us know through our own experiences) .
The success rate with placebo vaccine is just about that of FDA approved NRTs, so in early clinical trials the real vaccine was a bit better than the patch or gum. wonder if those projected billions in sales include the booster shots for the other 84% who the vaccine didn't quite work for.....
The success rate with placebo vaccine is just about that of FDA approved NRTs, so in early clinical trials the real vaccine was a bit better than the patch or gum. wonder if those projected billions in sales include the booster shots for the other 84% who the vaccine didn't quite work for.....
My concerns exactly, CES! This is misguided at best, pure evil at worst. Nicotine mimics acetylcholine, which is why nicotine promotes virtually all higher thinking pathways. If the vaccine goes after acetylcholine, in some way, too, this can REALLY change who a person is. I will never ever consent to a nicotine vaccine. I would like to see psych studies of those that have gotten it. The types of symptoms I can think of off the top of my head...well, thinking of what those symptoms might be would not be possible. Nor would thinking about much of anything else! Or thinking about what I want to think about. This I believe this is also the underlying reason for the horrific problems caused by Chantix.
The entire vaccine model has been shown to be an utter failure. Ask the war vets that got pumped up with vaccines...if they are still alive. the flu vaccine does not work!!! But this nicotine vaccine is now a different thing...they want to mess with the chemistry that makes us who are are. The show is truly run by vampires and ghouls now, bent on destroying our intelligence and humanity.
Exactly Kurt. Even more problematic is that acetylcholine is the neurotransmitter that is responsible for the ability to move our muscles.
the other thing that puzzles me is this result:
I'm fairly certain that nicotine is a stimulant- so why would mice receiving nicotine chill out? (Granted i haven't read the original study, but still....)
On the bright side, the chances of this particular new vaccine receiving approval for human testing anytime soon should be pretty slim, since it's delivered via a genetically engineered virus, not an easy delivery method to get approval for use in people, since it's essentially gene therapy.
the other thing that puzzles me is this result:
I'm fairly certain that nicotine is a stimulant- so why would mice receiving nicotine chill out? (Granted i haven't read the original study, but still....)
On the bright side, the chances of this particular new vaccine receiving approval for human testing anytime soon should be pretty slim, since it's delivered via a genetically engineered virus, not an easy delivery method to get approval for use in people, since it's essentially gene therapy.
Last edited:
You are right, CES, this does not make a lot of sense. Dr. K, the greek cardiologist, who ran extensive studies on both smokers and vapers, showed that vaped nicotine had an only very slight increase in the heart rate. With smoking it was much higher, since nic absorption is so much higher with smoking. I've never heard of it lowering heart rate unless maybe it is to satisfy a VERY intense craving for it, but I don't get the idea these mice were jonesing for nicotine. To make the statement that lowering heart rate is an indication of nicotine crossing the blood-brain barrier is odd, for sure. Really odd. Makes me think the study is flawed and they are trying to make it not look like it.
And yes, you are also right about Ach and muscles. I was also thinking about that when I wrote the above, but I click post before I actually wrote it. Add a new level of scary.
And the idea that this vaccine is produced from some mutant virus...well, these "people" are simply not human. This really makes my stomach crawl. What they spend vast amounts of money on is just insane. The only thing worse than a vampire is a moralistic one.
And yes, you are also right about Ach and muscles. I was also thinking about that when I wrote the above, but I click post before I actually wrote it. Add a new level of scary.
And the idea that this vaccine is produced from some mutant virus...well, these "people" are simply not human. This really makes my stomach crawl. What they spend vast amounts of money on is just insane. The only thing worse than a vampire is a moralistic one.
Please don"t throw out your Governor or Attorney General--maybe a Senator might be a good idea to throw out.
Nicotine has contradictory effects. It is considered a stimulant because it increases alertness. You know this is true if you have ever come close to going to sleep at the wheel and got a "second wind" after lighting up a cigarette. But the other effect of nicotine is that it relaxes the skeletal muscles, which gives a feeling of relief from stress.
Nicotine is the only known drug that gives both these benefits simultaneously.
Ahh, right. I'm much more familiar with the brain effects than i am with the effects in the rest of the body..
Well ...
That sure helps many understand better the reason
for that wonderful Aahhh feeling after lighting-up a smoke.
Well ...
That sure helps many understand better the reason
for that wonderful Aahhh feeling after lighting-up a smoke.
That's exactly right.
And diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, etc. In my region, these are absolutely epidemic.
But guess what I'm talking about? Food.
'nother subject entirely, I know, but take it from somebody who had a chronic illness, assorted other problems and allergies, not helped by doctors, until I got serious with a good nutritionist, who was also able to go "out there" a little with me. Full blown elimination diet, etc.
When your high cholesterol goes away completely, your joints stop aching, you never again have to take antacids or proton pump inhibitors like Nexium for reflux, and you don't feel sick and tired all the time, and then losing 45 pounds effortlessly, by not even dieting, but simply not eating "poison" anymore---------you know you're on to something.
With the new genetic stuff we are learning, we can *see* genes turning on, and off, for things like inflammation.
Cigs kill, but so does "industrial food." Just different way. Big Food is next on the horizon to receive a wake-up call, IMHO.
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
