The War against Nicotine Addiction

[Petrodus]

Let's admit it folks ...
Today the war is no longer "The War against E-cigarettes"

It's now "The War against Nicotine Addiction"

E-cigarettes and all other "harm reduction" products
could be proven, beyond a shadow of doubt, to be 100% safe
to the addicted user and 2nd hand vape is harmless ...
The focus today is Nicotine Addiction.

So, all the talk we do here about there's Nicotine
in (for example) tomatoes is really no longer relevant.
Those opposed to e-smoking may say Nicotine is harmful,
however, what they really mean is ... They are opposed to
Nicotine Addiction.

E-cigarettes could produce no visible vapor ...
Wouldn't make any difference to those opposed to Nicotine Addiction.

Just to go on the record here ...
"They" couldn't care less about saving lives of anyone
with a Nicotine Addiction. They are just Nicotine Addicts (period)

If you "peel back the oninon" ... You will find Nicotine Addiction
at the core ... Not e-cigarettes or any harm reduction product.

 

[DC2]

Well, we know for sure that this is how the ANTZ are proceeding, but...

Big Pharma has been providing a huge slice of the funding for the "non-profit" health groups and the many ANTZ they employ.
And Big Pharma is now working on getting into the "nicotine addiction" game themselves.

So while the true ANTZ will have a very hard time dealing with this conflict of their interest...
I think the "non-profit" health groups are going to have to change course a bit if they want to keep Big Pharma funding.

 

[tricci]

Come on guys, the FDA and Big Pharma has our best interests in mind, they gave us Chantix after all...oh wait that didn't work out so well. They gave us the patch...hmmm low success rate. Gum, lozengers, inhalers...yep they all sucked too. When will they figure out they suck at getting smokers to quit?

 

[Vocalek]

Come on guys, the FDA and Big Pharma has our best interests in mind, they gave us Chantix after all...oh wait that didn't work out so well. They gave us the patch...hmmm low success rate. Gum, lozengers, inhalers...yep they all sucked too. When will they figure out they suck at getting smokers to quit?

They might know, in their heart of hearts, but they keep pretending that they are winning the war. They were so happy to announce that the adult smoking prevalence in the US has dropped down to 19%, and ignored the fact that the absolute number of adults smokers (43.8 million) in 2011 is exactly the same number as in 1990, 21 years ago. It is only population growth that makes the prevalence appear to be dropping when expressed as a percent.

They might congratulate themselves on being nasty and cruel to smokers--sending them out into the elements, taking away protective shelters (at least in North Dakota), kicking them out of their homes, and taking away their means of making a living. But they rationalize that's OK because smokers are only dirty addicts who deserve the worst.

 

[Petrodus]

"You're Nothing but a Smoker" !!

 

[tommy2bad]

No it's not a war against nicotine addiction, thats a- ahem, smoke screen for whats really happening, nicotine capture. They want nicotene to remain the property of pharma companies and removed from general availability.

 

[Petrodus]

To simplify "the war"
The war is against all "tobacco" related products (not so much BP's quit smoking aids)
Everyone has heard of the the "evil" Nicotine (tobacco) ... nothing to do with tomatoes.
The focus of those opposed to harm reduction is an opposition to "Nicotine Addiction"
and all those addicted ... Are of no value ... IE ... "They are nothing but Smokers"
Who cares if they live or die (period)

 

[Petrodus]

Who's running the show - Governments or Corporations ??
Outstanding (food for thought) post by Rolygate on another forum (link)

"Are profits more important than lives? If not, how will the pharmaceutical industry develop new and better drugs? Can certain sections of society, or even countries, be excluded from the benefits of modern civilization? Does poverty equal death or should we be trying to ameliorate suffering universally in the modern world - specifically when such efforts are contrary to the economic interests of large corporations or whole industries? Who actually runs things now - governments or industries?"

"Does anyone have the right to live when that desire means an industry suffers reduced profits? If you answer yes to this question, where is that right protected in law? Should it be?"

 

[DC2]

Who's running the show - Governments or Corporations ??
Outstanding (food for thought) post by Rolygate on another forum (link)

"Are profits more important than lives? If not, how will the pharmaceutical industry develop new and better drugs? Can certain sections of society, or even countries, be excluded from the benefits of modern civilization? Does poverty equal death or should we be trying to ameliorate suffering universally in the modern world - specifically when such efforts are contrary to the economic interests of large corporations or whole industries? Who actually runs things now - governments or industries?"

"Does anyone have the right to live when that desire means an industry suffers reduced profits? If you answer yes to this question, where is that right protected in law? Should it be?"

Honestly, I don't think it's possible to give all people everywhere cutting-edge health care.
The amount of money it would cost to provide cutting-edge health care to everyone would cripple any economy.

So if true, where does that leave us?

It's an impossible situation with no solution but to watch people die.
Now it's just a matter of deciding who will be the ones who are left to die without exhausting all possible avenues.

EDIT: I have no proof this this is true, but I can't see how it wouldn't be.

Only the rich truly get cutting-edge health care.
Just ask Michael J. Fox and Magic Johnson.

 

[TennDave]

May be true but that doesn't mean corporations (and specifically pharm companies) have the right to lie and profit by sending people to their death-beds. It's one thing to turn a blind eye- totally different to help them along while getting paid for it. There should be laws against this with extremely stiff penalties

 

[newq]

This is an interesting topic because it is more than just healthcare and pharma involved.

My father worked for DuPont (now retired) and one big product they were working on in the 80's was a auto med clinic. Think phonebooth style atm machine which had patron come inside , sit down punch in there symptons. The machine would then administer any required tests on the spot and submit a diagnosis and prescribe any necessary anecdotal treatment up to and including administering drugs.

There were of course concerns of abuse of such a device and that was but a small hurdle. The real problem would be that people would DIE. Not from the machine but because of the machine. It would destroy modern social healthcare. It would favor working solutions and eliminate revenue derived from elongated office visits with unnecessary value added tests. It would streamline the process and create a national health database. It would reserve hospitals for true emergency care and keep the populous healthier and reduce the incidences of simple healthcare going unchecked and turning into a life threat.

For so long big pharm, industry and corporations have run the world. Even in America the most free place in the modern world, we are only as free as our money carries us. Even when working within legal means corporate money can force people to make decisions through propaganda which would otherwise benefit the populous and instead gets shot down because the bought media spins stories to the tailor of the dollar.

The healthcare industry has long thrived on inflating costs under the premise of mounting RND research, its why a .15 cent bottle of penicillin still costs 20-30 USD. Money is a modern day enslavement tool. Next time you vote for your senator or congressman realize the presidential race which gains so much national is but a small piece of the government which seems to ignore your basic human rights until it fits the model of a personal agenda they have.

 

[Petrodus]

Bottom Line
Peeling back the Onion

Nicotine Addiction is NOT at the core of the onion.
It’s simply today's "battle flag" for those opposed to e-cigarettes.

Failed battle cries of the past.
1. Harmful to the user.
2. Harmful to others (2nd hand vapor)
3. Save the Children

All agree addiction (to one degree or another) is not a good thing.
Nicotine is the primary addictive ingredient in cigarettes.
No one can think of Nicotine without cigarettes coming to mind.
Smoking is harmful ... Addiction to smoking is harmful.

Nicotine Addiction is NOT at the core of the onion…
It's simply the final layer hiding the core.

If you peel back the union all the way to its core...
You will find the core is made of pure Money.

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce
of civilized nations.
Thomas Jefferson

 

[BlueRock]

Would you fight this hard to decriminalize ......?

 

[Petrodus]

Would you fight this hard to decriminalize ......?

Precious Freedoms
If you do Not fight for them ... You WILL lose them (period)

 

[budynbuick]

agree with 99.9 of what has been said. The real war is against the people under the 'guise' of war against .....fill in the blank

 

[bubbalou32]

Not to change the subject but here is a thread on the influence of FSC as a factor is switching to e-cigs:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/362218-were-fire-safe-cigarettes-one-reasons-you-chose-start-vaping.html#post8117413
I found FSC to be the motivator in getting me to quit burning tobacco. The problem is that the chemical used in FSC has not been determined to be safe for humans but you can't buy a commercially manufactured cigarette in the US without it (other than the roll-your-own outlets, but that is DIY).

But then again, they are JUST smokers.

 

[Petrodus]

There's good reasons why the Legislation News forum
has been hot recently.

 

[Petrodus]

Lying

There's no law prohibiting the White House, our Elected Officials, BP, the FDA,
or the Media...from Lying to the public to support their agendas.

However, There is a law prohibiting a person from Lying to the Police.
Kinda sorta reminds me of Nazi Germany.

 

[Phantom309]

And they wanna figure out how to tax the heck out of it

 

[Petrodus]

And they wanna figure out how to tax the heck out of it

"No taxation without representation" is a slogan originating during
the 1750s and 1760s that summarized a primary grievance of the
British colonists in the Thirteen Colonies, which was one of the
major causes of the American Revolution.