Is Big Tobacco really an issue?

[dog man]

I bring this subject up since I'm constantly seeing tobacco Co's being bashed as the bad guys.
Hey a lot of facts to that but wait aa minute. tobacco Co's have been buying into the whole of the vaping Products via Disposables. Thus I see them as a tool to fight Org's like the FDA , ALA and Others who are petitioning Vapings demise via paying off Politicians and thrusting rules and regs at us..
They have the funds and the know how to fight these entities.. I consider them in allegiance with us especially considering (maybe) 50% of all Vapers are using Disposables.
Tobacco Co's saw the handwriting on the wall. Their sales were dwindling and people went over to the original Cig Like disposables. They glommed on to the idea and went into buying ownership with these Co's. Now we have some fantastic disposables...(I don't use em and prefer refillables, but I digress)

So personally I think we need to rethink who our enemies are. Tobacco Co's aren't the entity to be condemned.
(for their decades of the past... yes)
It's the Gov't led Entities we need to go after.

 

[Darksand]

Do not underestimate the power big companies (any big company) have in the Government.

In my country, the biggest looser, if everyone would quit smoking, would be the state. The State earns most on smoking. However Tobacco companies also loose big. There will also be losses in medical spending's, that is also a lot of money. And I bet there are more losers.

In a whole, everything should be fine, but the Government, Tobacco companies and the Medical world, there are many people with different views, ideologies and motivations. And there is a lot of money and entanglement.

In the government, choices are made by ideology and motivations and these entanglements. If there is a lot of money around, motivation (and ideology) can be bought.... even legally (not sure if ethical).

So In my opinion, they all are to blame. None should be deemed save. Actually nowadays, I don't trust most big companies.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

To call big tobacco a friend of vaping is completely asinine. They are as evil today as they have ever been.

And government? The people get what they vote for. People should become more educated before voting for imbeciles.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I did note the OP is from North Carolina, where some 260 million pounds of tobacco were produced in 2023.

"North Carolina had a total of 340 tobacco establishments employing 9,546 employees across three primary segments: raw materials, components and final products, and distribution (T2a; T3a)."

https://ncglobaleconomy.com/tobacco/workers.shtml

 

[Darksand]

I did note the OP is from North Carolina, where some 260 million pounds of tobacco were produced in 2023.

"North Carolina had a total of 340 tobacco establishments employing 9,546 employees across three primary segments: raw materials, components and final products, and distribution (T2a; T3a)."

https://ncglobaleconomy.com/tobacco/workers.shtml

Entanglements, entanglements everywhere

And government? The people get what they vote for. People should become more educated before voting for imbeciles.

Be careful, Don't think these are Imbeciles. These people are very smart but evil. If you think they are stupid, you lost already.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Entanglements, entanglements everywhere

Yes Sir!!!

I do enjoy reading and learning about quantum science and entanglement.

What Is Entanglement and Why Is It Important?

Caltech scientists explain the strange phenomenon of quantum entanglement in everyday language.

scienceexchange.caltech.edu

Science, gotta love it.

 

[Darksand]

Yup, also very interesting, spooky action at a distance, but not what I meant

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Yup, also very interesting, spooky action at a distance, but not what I meant

I know what you meant.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Be careful, Don't think these are Imbeciles. These people are very smart but evil. If you think they are stupid, you lost already.

Yes, there are some smart ones, but not all are, and not all are evil (debatable).

Here in the USA I could give you a very long list of idiotic imbeciles the people voted for. People who are not playing with a full deck and who should never be in politics. But that would be a post/thread far better suited for the Outside. Their lame records and spewed ignorance truly speak for themselves.

 

[WorksForMe]

I have to agree with the OP that Big Tobacco is not the entity that is destroying vaping as we know it. They are doing what all big corporations do, which is to do whatever they have to do to maximize the profit they make for their shareholders. If our corrupt politicians and bureaucrats had stayed out of the way, BT would have had to compete with the rest of the vape industry, and we wouldn’t be in the dire straits that we’re in now.

Having said that, even if Big Government had minded its own business, I think BT would have eventually taken over most of the vape industry. They would have bought out a lot of smaller companies and out competed the rest. The big difference would have been that they would have had to sell products that consumers want. That’s how capitalism is supposed to work.

BTW: Just because I live in Virginia doesn't mean I like BT anymore than I like any other big company.

.

 

[dog man]

Likewise, since I'm from NC doesn't mean I'm tainted by Tobacco's influence.
As bad as they have been they are now in alliance with us wether we like it or not.
They are suppliers of Vape and Vape products.

 

[WorksForMe]

Likewise, since I'm from NC doesn't mean I'm tainted by Tobacco's influence.
As bad as they have been they are now in alliance with us wether we like it or not.
They are suppliers of Vape and Vape products.

Well, I don't think they are in alliance with us. Actually, I'm sure BT sees the rest of the vape industry as their direct competition, and the best way to increase their market share is to destroy the competition. They've been lobbying state governments to pass laws that will make it illegal to sell anything not approved by the FDA. While I don't think they're our biggest enemy(that would be our government), they're not our friends either.

.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I don't worry about BT, I worry about BG.

 

[dog man]

Works for Me...
To a point I agree to another thought not so much. Smoking Products have been losing market share for a few decades. Wether it's a push against tobacco or vape being introduced in ''cig like'' format, They were under scrutiny by Gov't, ALA FDA and a slew of lawsuits. Then they saw the handwriting and bought into the whole Carto Style businesses and started re-marketing.

So what I'm seeing is Yes, They did us harm but it's an Unholy Alliance were in with them. They are pushing the Disposables.... Most of us have gone the direction of Refillable Hardware and fluids with more options.

But we better give them some Kudo's since without their knowledge of Lawsuits and attacks they've endured, we likely wouldn't have what we now use.
So to me, they are (currently) not our enemy. Gov't and their funded entities like FDA, ALA Pharma are our biggest threats.

 

[WorksForMe]

Here is a Vaping360 article about the laws that BT is trying to get a lot of states to pass.

Urgent Consumer Action Needed to Stop PMTA Registry Bills

More than a dozen bills have been introduced this year in state legislatures that would establish "PMTA registries" for vaping products.

vaping360.com

"A new kind of restrictive vape product law is rapidly gaining traction in state legislatures. So far this year, over a dozen so-called PMTA registry (or directory) bills have been introduced. The bills are promoted to state lawmakers by tobacco companies seeking to protect themselves from competition."

.

 

[zoiDman]

I bring this subject up since I'm constantly seeing Tobacco Co's being bashed as the bad guys.
Hey a lot of facts to that but wait aa minute. Tobacco Co's have been buying into the whole of the Vaping Products via Disposables. Thus I see them as a tool to fight Org's like the FDA , ALA and Others who are petitioning Vapings demise via paying off Politicians and thrusting rules and regs at us..
They have the funds and the know how to fight these entities.. I consider them in allegiance with us especially considering (maybe) 50% of all Vapers are using Disposables.
Tobacco Co's saw the handwriting on the wall. Their sales were dwindling and people went over to the original Cig Like disposables. They glommed on to the idea and went into buying ownership with these Co's. Now we have some fantastic disposables...(I don't use em and prefer refillables, but I digress)

So personally I think we need to rethink who our enemies are. Tobacco Co's aren't the entity to be condemned.
(for their decades of the past... yes)
It's the Gov't led Entities we need to go after.

Works for Me...
To a point I agree to another thought not so much. Smoking Products have been losing market share for a few decades. Wether it's a push against tobacco or vape being introduced in ''cig like'' format, They were under scrutiny by Gov't, ALA FDA and a slew of lawsuits. Then they saw the handwriting and bought into the whole Carto Style businesses and started re-marketing.

So what I'm seeing is Yes, They did us harm but it's an Unholy Alliance were in with them. They are pushing the Disposables.... Most of us have gone the direction of Refillable Hardware and fluids with more options.

But we better give them some Kudo's since without their knowledge of Lawsuits and attacks they've endured, we likely wouldn't have what we now use.
So to me, they are (currently) not our enemy. Gov't and their funded entities like FDA, ALA Pharma are our biggest threats.

I'm just curious... But How Long have you been following all this?

The reason I ask is Your Views seem to be based kinda on a Snap-Shot of the way things are Today. And that these things have always been like this.

You can say that BT is somehow our "Ally" because there is a Greater Evil out there in BP (Big Pharma). This is debatable. The part about BP being a Greater Evil that BT that is. Because that is a Very Close race. But what Isn't Debatable is that BT is somehow on Our Side. On... Anything.

Remember: Just because someone isn't currently Kicking Your Dog, that Doesn't mean that Your Dog hasn't been Kicked.

Also remember, BT couldn't care less about the e-Cigarette Market. In fact, they would Love to see it Burned to the Ground. Because they are the ones who sell the things that We use e-Cigarettes to stay off of. And make a Tidy Profit doing it.

So yeah... That Dude in the suit with a Gas Can and a Road Flare might say that he is your Friend. But He Really Isn't.

 

[dog man]

zoiDman
near 30 years since the inception of the e-cig.
In fact I was selling e-cigs when they were cig look alike in color and size.. sold the cartos and batteries... First of the products inception.

Note the Cig industry will never recover to it's past (um) glory. Their sales are down buy (dunno) 50-60%. Thus they entered into a different Nic market... E-cigs. Thus in a way an ally.
Wether we like or agree with their tactics, they are part of our reality in that they are also profiting from the e-cig market and would HATE to see it dissolve,... They fight the FDA and ALA as well as Gov't.. Wether we like the direction they are going, without them this whole delivery system likely would be dead right now... But they are invested, so no. They will loose financially as well.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

it doesn't matter...... to me ......how you are choosing to view this via rose colored glasses

it is very well understood that...........

BT is not a friend, or an ally, of vapers...... they never were nor are they today

that's the fact, undeniable and unassailable

i for one would like to see a single shred of actual proof that BT is...... somehow ......an ally of vapers

please post factual links to support your "opinion"............
<<< ummm, you won't find any >>>

 

[zoiDman]

zoiDman
near 30 years since the inception of the e-cig.
In fact I was selling e-cigs when they were cig look alike in color and size.. sold the cartos and batteries... First of the products inception.

Wow... 30 Years is a Long Time. And I thought I was a Dinosaur having started with a RN4081.

Anyway... If you want to believe that BT is somehow in your corner when it comes to e-Cigarettes, don't let me stop you.

I wish I could be the Same way. But Unfortunately, I have seen Too Much. And No Amount of Kool Aid can wash that from my mind.

 

[zoiDman]

...
BT is not a friend, or an ally, of vapers...... they never were nor are they today

that's the fact, undeniable and unassailable

...

Like those kids with the Baseball Cap on sideways and the Sunglasses on indoors used to say...

"WORD Up Homeie"