From Newsweek writer re. BAT Vype e-cigarette

[WillyZee]

It's one of those (crappy imo) websites that loads up loads of scripts and stuff before you can actually see anything. These sites are in a pain in the neck if you're on a slow connection (like me.)

those kind of sites get blocked by ClicktoFlash on my computer ... I hate auto play stuff

thanks for the links Shirtbloke ... followed him on twitter for when he writes the article.

 

[pbxbelmar]

Sounds like I can see the same thing on the Newsweek link. Good enough.

 

[AndriaD]

Success!

Vype has responded and answered ALL my questions with regards to the ePen. Kudos to them for getting back to me.

1. How large is the battery (in mAh)? 650 mAh
2. What is the voltage in the two different settings? 3v and 3.6v
3. What is the resistance of the coil (ohms)? 2.8±0.15 ohm
4. Are the wicks made of Silica? If not, what are they made of? Silica
5. Can the atomizer (the coils) be replaced when they no longer work or perform well? Each coil is inside each ePen cap which means it is replaced every time you finish an ePen cap.
6. How many mls of eliquid is in a cartridge? 1.5ml
7. Can I use my eliquid purchased at a vape shop to refill the cartridges? No

So based on the above numbers, here is the wattage at the two different settings on the ePen.

1. Lowest setting : 3.0v @ 2.8 ohm = 3.21 watts
2. Highest setting: 3.6v @ 2.8 ohm = 4.63 watts

Will gather all my thoughts and post again tomorrow. @DJSVapor, this may help you fine tune your cost numbers (should you wish) given you are in the UK and I'm not.

I would be curious to see how the numbers & performance of ePen stack up against Joyetech's eRoll.

PBusardo reviewed the eRoll and said is was a "Perfect solution for a specific type of smoker/vaper". That was 2 years ago.

Good info. 1.5ml in each cartridge? I'd need 4 a day, at my current rate of consumption, but considering how inefficient those cigalike things are, that might actually need to be DOUBLED -- 8 a day!

I actually did quit, using the aforementioned eRoll -- that is, I was able to effect a gradual reduction in smoking as I got more accustomed to vaping, over a month's time -- but by the time that month was up and I was able to actually smoke zero, I already knew that the eRoll just didn't cut it -- the *constant* need to refill or swap out those .4ml cartridges, the *constant* need to recharge those little 90mAh batteries, and the fact that with an unregulated device, each hit subsequent to the first hit is progressively less satisfying... I knew I could never *stay* smoke-free using that technology -- on the actual 1st day I was 100% smoke-free, I got the iTaste vv3 in the mail, and with its variable wattage/voltage feature, was able to tailor the vape to my own personal preferences -- THAT is what really sealed the deal.

Couple that variability with the ability to choose my own flavor -- a tobacco flavor, Virginia, at that time -- and contrast that with these proprietary things' limitation to THEIR OWN interpretation of what an e-cig ought to taste like -- and whoever chose the flavor of Blu and Njoy was quite clearly NEVER a cigarette smoker! And then of course, after I'd been smoke-free for about 4 months, I gradually grew less and less fond of the tobacco flavor, and moved on to sweet flavors -- now I absolutely LOATHE the "cigarette taste," and that is just one more "brick in the wall" against returning to smoking, because now, cigarettes would taste EVEN WORSE.

And Rolygate's comment that the smoking addiction is comprised of a great deal more than mere nicotine -- FACT. If it was merely nicotine, then the patches and all the rest of that snake-oil would be a GREAT deal more effective. The biggest "other" in that equation is probably the behavioral aspect, the hand-to-mouth, inhale-exhale habit we've all learned to enjoy so much, but there is also the rest of the chemical cocktail to consider... and frankly, if I had not had recourse to WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloids) in my ejuice, I would never have been able to remain smoke-free; when you're basically vaping your face off and STILL having bone-deep hard cravings, clearly there is something more going on than merely nicotine addiction.

I smoked for 39 years, and puny cigalikes would never have freed me from that addiction.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

Thanks Shirtbloke. Went to the website link and it comes up blank? Is it ad loaded?

It's just slow -- I've got screaming fast internet and a 64-bit PC, and it's slow... hate to think what it's like for those with less thru-put...

Andria

 

[pbxbelmar]

 

[Susan~S]

I just did a search and SUCCESS! Have not read it yet.

May 27th - You Need to Read This Newsweek Feature

Here's the article =>> Big Tobacco fights back: how the cigarette kings bought the vaping industry

 

[Ryedan]

I just did a search and SUCCESS! Have not read it yet.

May 27th - You Need to Read This Newsweek Feature

Here's the article =>> Big Tobacco fights back: how the cigarette kings bought the vaping industry

Thanks for the link Susan. It's a very good read.

 

[john333]

I truly believe the cigalike should be banned. I know a dozen people who tried them, found them unsatisfactory for a number of reasons and went back to smoking. I don't believe for a minute cigarette companies feel they have a good product to help people quit smoking. They know they don't work, they know they are overpriced, they know they wont lose their customers in the end. Come on, it's Big Tobacco. They kill one thousand two hundred people on a daily basis. They are the leading preventable cause of death in America. What is your question???

 

[Shirtbloke]

I just did a search and SUCCESS! Have not read it yet.

May 27th - You Need to Read This Newsweek Feature

Here's the article =>> Big Tobacco fights back: how the cigarette kings bought the vaping industry

Well found Susan. It's a pretty good read and I get a namecheck. Woo and Hoo.

 

[pbxbelmar]

Thanks Susan!

 

[tvapernow]

Hello,

My name is Simon Akam and I am a contributing editor at the European edition of Newsweek magazine. For the past few months I have been working on a major story about electronic cigarettes, in particular looking at how large tobacco companies are responding to the technology. My prime focus is British American Tobacco, who are marketing the Vype product in the UK. I have had extensive access within BAT's next generation products venture.

I am interested to hear the experiences of users of Vype, both the larger ePen and smaller eStick variants. What is is like? How effective is it? How does it compare to other products in the market, especially those from independent producers/mods etc? What about price point, availability etc?

Also, how influenced would you be by a product with a medicines license, as BAT's forthcoming Voke inhaler will have?

I need to hear feedback by the end of next week.

Cheers, and happy to answer any questions about the piece etc. Likewise my first time on this forum so apologies for any breach of etiquette etc.

Simon

Haven't tried one. Going by the info, it's a closed system, grossly expensive, and a almost useless cigalike. Sorry, doomed to fail, And almost totally useless for quitting. Been a 1 to 2 PAD smoker for 40+ years. Now cancer stick free for almost 2 months. It took a tank system with spinner II large batteries, and 24mg liquid to give me enough nicotine and vapor to quit cancer sticks. Now able to drop nicotine down to 6mg, dropping to 3mg soon, with plans to get to 0. The useless government, with the FDA in the pocket of big pharma, big tobacco, and teamed up with the anti-smoking crazies, are going to have the blood of millions of smokers that could have quit using e-cigs on their hands. Don't kid yourself, it's all about the money, and nothing but the money.

 

[tvapernow]

Hi Simon,

Having read through this thread some things come to mind:

1. Big tobacco and big Pharma are putting together an entry to the ecig market in an attempt to save their revenue stream.
2. Given the obsolete technology in this device you're researching they really aren't interested in providing a viable quitting device for the masses.
3. The UK regulating vaping out of reach of the masses will create effects similar to the American Prohibition of alcohol - people will still vape, it will just go black market and create a whole new crop of 'law breakers' for the government to deal with (if they so choose). I don't know a single vaper who has quit smoking who will want to give up vaping to go back to smoking.

There are currently multitudes of simple devices more effective (both in cost and vaping satisfaction) than what BAT seems to be offering. To kill an emerging market which has such a high potential to save lives, for the sake of protecting the tobacco and pharmaceutical lobby's profits is collusion of the worst kind between government and money-grubbing industry.

Fantastic post, and true in every way

 

[tvapernow]

Scroll to the bottom of this page for a full listing of the equipment progressions:

Vaping Terminology

In general discussion, these stages are much-simplified. Usually, people say that minis were generation 1, eGos and mods were gen 2, and VV devices (now more properly call APVs, since they are clearly no longer mods) are gen 3. Using such broad groups allows anything subsequent to be a gen 3 type (including VW types, high-power boxmods, etc.).


To talk of regulatory developments means to speak of specific countries:

1. USA
In the USA, the FDA tried to ban ecigs in 2010 by means of an import ban and a pharmaceutical license requirement. This failed at law, with a landmark decision by Judge Leon that has subsequently been repeated about 6 times in EU countries. In the US, the appeal went all the way up to the last court below the Supreme Court, with universal backing from every judge in every court for Judge Leon's decision (a total of 13 judges all in favour of overturning the FDA's action).

The FDA was very soon thereafter, in 2010, given rights to regulate tobacco products, though the two things were unrelated as the tobacco issue had been ongoing for years. Congress took the decision that ecigs must be a tobacco product or a medicinal product, and as the latter was struck down by the courts, the tobacco classification would be used by the FDA. The option to remain as a consumer product was not allowed. Note that in the EU, consumer products are very strictly regulated and somewhere between 17 and 21 statutes apply to ecigs (opinion varies); although in theory the same sort of thing applies in the US, since there is no local enforcement arm as in the UK for example with the Trading Standards system and the large number of local enforcement officers, in effect consumer products are unregulated, in practice, in the USA. It is true to say (in practice) that ecigs are unregulated in the USA, when this is the opposite of the case in the UK.

In order to regulate tobacco products, from scratch - there is no precedent - the FDA had to create a regulatory system. In order to bring ecigs into this system, as they are considered 'novel' products since they aren't cigarettes (and aren't tobacco products either, to be accurate), they had to issue a Deeming Proposal, to outline exactly how they would 'deem' ecig products to be tobacco products; how they would regulate them; how they would allow new products to be introduced; and by implication, how others would tax them. This process will result in regulations being implemented that are expected to kill off the independent ecig trade due to prohibitive costs, as it will cost millions to bring a single product to market, and the trade currently bring thousands of improvements and new products to market every year. So the effect will be to give the trade to those who can afford the bar to entry - the cigarette trade - and remove any product that is suitable for smokers to switch successfully to vaping and with any cost savings. Then, over time, ecigs can be virtually removed by regulation and taxation. This is mainly to protect cigarette sales in order to protect pharmaceutical sales (the drugs for treating all the smoking-generated disease) since the FDA is the world's best example of a regulatory-captured government agency; though obviously there are very large numbers of beneficiaries, and the main loser is public health.

US States
The States are desperate to protect cigarette sales, and this is a double necessity:
a) The tobacco tax revenues are critically important to them.
b) The MSA payments are equally important, and mean the difference between survival and economic chaos - especially in the worst-run States such as California and NY.

This is why you will see the Attorneys General fighting as hard as they possibly can to get ecigs banned. They even have a personal financial motive.

The almighty dollar
The clearest aspect of US ecig regs is the huge, almost incalculable, funds available to those who will toe the pharma-tax line. The MSA funds and NIH funds are so enormous that it is hard to see who would be honest enough to reject the money. The funding creates multi-millionaire liars like Glantz, who received $6 million just for last year. If you don't understand this, research MSA funds (over $200 billion assigned up to 2023) and the NIH funds (see Rodu today for example: Tobacco Truth: NIH Funding Stifles Tobacco Harm Reduction Research and Support in Academia )

The money paid for lies is simply extraordinary: one researcher got $850,000 basically for junk science based on watching YouTube videos of vapers. This is the home of junk science, where people can become a millionaire if they are prepared to lie for money and don't care how many people die as a result.


2. EU
Tobacco in the EU is regulated by the EU Health Commission via the TPD. Commissioner Dalli rewrote this in order to ban ecigs by use of a pharmaceutical license categorisation. Dalli was sacked for corruption soon after, but the TPD rewrite remained on the books. It failed in the EU Parliament as MEPs rejected the pharmaceutical classification for ecigs (it would clearly also have failed at law).

Plan B was then revealed: in secret committees the TPD was rebuilt, classifying vapourisers as a tobacco product, and passed by the EU Council and The Council of Ministers (as this is classed as a health matter, this means a council of the 28 health ministers). The EU Parliament passed it as a compromise bill since it looked reasonable to some, and it allowed all the tobacco law changes to go through without problem, this time round.

The new TPD must be implemented by all 28 countries by May 2016. The EU law is 'transposed' or 'mirrored' into national law in this process. We cannot tell how this will be done in the UK, but it potentially allows most current products to be banned, all international web sales banned, all advertising banned, and all web advertising banned. Because ecig web advertising is banned under the TPD, it will almost certainly be used to close all ecig vendor websites, as just existing means they are advertising; if you can't have tobacco sales websites then you can't have ecig websites, as they are now 'a tobacco product'.

TW ecigs (Totally Wicked) has started the legal process to have it struck down, and their advisers are not using health as the challenge but EU law procedural issues, such as restraint of trade etc.

Again, this is going to be an effective way to kill off ecigs, perhaps not in year 1 (as a lot of enforcement procedures will need to be set up first) but certainly in later years. The very small number of inefficient products left will be given to the cigarette trade as the costs will be prohibitive for anyone else.

The goal is: retail sales only, with no advertising, and only a few of the most inefficient products left on the market, at very high cost, with taxes equivalent to (or greater than) tobacco taxes. They failed in an outright ban, but it appears that a 99.9% ban will be permitted. This is a tremendous win for the gov/pharma/tobacco/fake charity machine as they can now say that ecigs are permitted and were not banned.


3. UK
The UK is currently unique in several respects:
a) Ecig products are already strictly regulated by at least 17 laws (some say 21), and the regulations are enforced at local level, on all retailers including website operators. We are not aware of anywhere else in the world that this applies.

b) The most senior public health figures, even those in tobacco control, widely and publicly support ecigs. There are one or two notable exceptions, but they are not given too much credence even by the media, as the issues are fairly obvious (one is clearly a spokesperson for GSK pharmaceuticals). When John Britton [1], Robert West, Peter Hajek and other say that ecigs are to be supported, it is very hard for less prominent staff to disagree.

Even CRUK, a major pharma beneficiary and therefore a primary distributor of the usual lies and propaganda, has been told to shut up by these eminent professors - and CRUK have had to bite their tongue and do as told. They will have to sacrifice some pharma funds, perhaps, but otherwise their chief medical backers will pull out, and the fallout would be hard to conceal. A cancer charity accused of promoting cancer by the most eminent professors in the land would be rather amusing to see - and their current massive TV advertising drive would become a joke, remarked on even in the Daily Fail, aka pharma propaganda central.

The UK situation really is unique in this respect, and we are eternally grateful to these medics - some of the few honest members of their profession at this level.

What remains to be seen is how the TPD is implemented, if it survives legal challenge. Since the Department of (Pharmaceutical) Health does exactly as it is told by its paymasters in Geneva, the prospects are not good.


Elsewhere
That's the current US, EU and UK regulatory situation. As for the banana republics like Lithuania etc., they depend so much on tobacco tax revenues they don't even care about any apology or concealment of their actions to ban or tax ecigs out of contention in order to protect cigarette tax revenues.


The WHO
A fine collection of pharma whores, and one of the principal protectors of the cigarette trade. To discuss the detail is like discussing faeces, so I won't.


The role of the Public Health Industry
The propaganda needed to create a climate of fear in which it is seen as justifiable to tax new products that will (if left alone) remove smoking, and that are harmless when compared to smoking, is created and published by the Public Health Industry. This consists of fake charities, front groups and universities owned by pharma. Their spokespersons largely control the main media presence, often helped by the fact that the power of pharma's advertising funds is crucial to the media now. Where Chantix is advertised, no support for THR will be found.




------------------
[1] There is a clear argument to be made that Prof Britton, Chair of the Royal College of Physicians' Tobacco Group, is the world's senior tobacco control spokesman. He is the direct descendent, if you like, of Prof Sir Richard Doll, who started it all. To paraphrase Britton slightly: "If all UK smokers switched to ecigs we would save five million lives, just among those alive today, just in the UK". No one has had the temerity (or stupidity) to contradict him.

Fantastic post, concise, correct in every way IMO. I wish I had the time to write something this good. Absolutely perfect job. Now if we could get every Vaper in America to storm the gates of Congress and the FDA, demanding an end to be put to this criminal nonsense from the gubment, think of the millions of smoker lives that could be saved. I wish I could give you 10,000 likes

 

[djsvapour]

I finally got to read the article.

It mentions that some people think Big Tobacco will probably emerge as the eventual sector winner.

Now - Is that because everything else will be banned (Europe 2016), or because the Tobacco companies will market these products to the unsuspecting new user who will never get to appreciate how inferior (and expensive) what they are selling really is?

I bought 7 "Vype" e-cigs the other day. Job lot for $10 in a shop that "couldn't sell them, because they are rubbish".

Yep... well I can't vape them either. They don't actually make vapour as I understand the concept. Almost vapour free and totally flavour free as well. They are categorically the worst e-cig I have ever used. About 25% of the vapour of an eGo CE4. Yes. Really.

 

[Baditude]

My opinion is the regulatory authorities, and Big Tobacco, are pushing for "closed" vaping devices ... which are the cigalikes. Meaning... the user will no longer be able to use bottled e-liquids of their choice. Big Tobacco and the regulatory authorities want everyone to believe that vapers are too stupid to be able to choose which e-liquids to use and incompetent to fill their own "open" container devices.

We vapers can read between the lines. As former smokers, we're aware of the added chemicals intentionally added to tobacco by Big Tobacco to keep us addicted. Big Tobacco wants a monopoly on the e-cig/vaping trade. They can achieve that if regulations abolish open container delivery devices. Big Tobacco also wants flavors restricted to tobacco and menthol flavors. Well, we vapers like candy, fruit, and desert flavors, too. If I had to vape a tobacco flavor because there were no other options ....well, I just wouldn't. I'd make my own or buy off the black market. No way will I trust the e-liquid that a tobacco company manufacturers.

 

[rolygate]

You can work out what will happen, where, by looking at the pressures. An example:

Country:
USA
Region: California
Federal law: Ecigs will be regulated as tobacco products unless they make medical claims.
Financial pressures, national:
Immense pressure from the smoking economy [1] to ban or cripple ecigs. They own the law.
Financial pressures, regional:
Pressure to retain tobacco tax revenues, MSA funds, and social cost savings from early deaths; pressure from the MSA bonds imminent failure; State finances are being squeezed and the loss of cigarette sales will be crippling. State law is owned by those who need to protect cigarette sales. The health of the public is of zero importance.
Pro-ecig pressures:
Some commercial lobbying and community advocacy. A few medics in support. Nothing of any real concern considering the complete and unshakeable power of the opponents.
Expected outcomes, national:
FDA stopped from banning ecigs, 2010. FDA appointed to oversee tobacco. FDA claims ecigs are tobacco, and will be allowed to cripple ecigs - perhaps not in Year 1, perhaps not in Year 2, but soon enough: by use of the wedge principle. Start small and build up.
Expected outcomes, regional:
California will do whatever it can to remove the threat from ecigs, or face serious financial complications. They are desperate to keep taking the tobacco money. Policy hints can be gained from State AGs: when they speak strongly about removing / restricting ecigs (in order to protect cigarette sales), the AG is telling you what will happen.
Expected outcome, national/regional combined:
Don't expect to be able to buy any modern, efficient vaping products in Cali. What will be available is BT's mini ecigs, at highly-taxed prices that make vaping double the cost of smoking (or more).
Why this outcome cannot be avoided:
The State and national governments are rotten to the core. Your health is of no consequence whatsoever, they just want your money.

It's the same in Europe. Legal challenges are the only way to stop this process. If legal challenges fail, vaping goes black market.


[1] Government, pharmaceutical and tobacco industries are all heavily dependent on smoking and will protect it by leveraging their funded lobbying groups to produce propaganda in the form of junk science, press releases and policy initiatives; and then making laws to suit their joint economic objectives as a result of the climate created and enabled by their own propaganda and lobbying. This group of linked revenue sources, all deriving from cigarette sales and forming a discrete sub-economy, together with the interdependent parties and their wholly-owned affiliates (for example in the Public Health industry) who benefit from it, can be referred to as the smoking economy.

 

[Chrissie]

It's a shame that Simon Akam didn't fully quote me from my post on page one of this thread. he missed out the following -

"I would never recommend Vype, in any shape or form, to anyone. There are far better & cheaper alternatives available"

 

[tvapernow]

You can work out what will happen, where, by looking at the pressures. An example:

Country:
USA
Region: California
Federal law: Ecigs will be regulated as tobacco products unless they make medical claims.
Financial pressures, national:
Immense pressure from the smoking economy [1] to ban or cripple ecigs. They own the law.
Financial pressures, regional:
Pressure to retain tobacco tax revenues, MSA funds, and social cost savings from early deaths; pressure from the MSA bonds imminent failure; State finances are being squeezed and the loss of cigarette sales will be crippling. State law is owned by those who need to protect cigarette sales. The health of the public is of zero importance.
Pro-ecig pressures:
Some commercial lobbying and community advocacy. A few medics in support. Nothing of any real concern considering the complete and unshakeable power of the opponents.
Expected outcomes, national:
FDA stopped from banning ecigs, 2010. FDA appointed to oversee tobacco. FDA claims ecigs are tobacco, and will be allowed to cripple ecigs - perhaps not in Year 1, perhaps not in Year 2, but soon enough: by use of the wedge principle. Start small and build up.
Expected outcomes, regional:
California will do whatever it can to remove the threat from ecigs, or face serious financial complications. They are desperate to keep taking the tobacco money. Policy hints can be gained from State AGs: when they speak strongly about removing / restricting ecigs (in order to protect cigarette sales), the AG is telling you what will happen.
Expected outcome, national/regional combined:
Don't expect to be able to buy any modern, efficient vaping products in Cali. What will be available is BT's mini ecigs, at highly-taxed prices that make vaping double the cost of smoking (or more).
Why this outcome cannot be avoided:
The State and national governments are rotten to the core. Your health is of no consequence whatsoever, they just want your money.

It's the same in Europe. Legal challenges are the only way to stop this process. If legal challenges fail, vaping goes black market.


[1] Government, pharmaceutical and tobacco industries are all heavily dependent on smoking and will protect it by leveraging their funded lobbying groups to produce propaganda in the form of junk science, press releases and policy initiatives; and then making laws to suit their joint economic objectives as a result of the climate created and enabled by their own propaganda and lobbying. This group of linked revenue sources, all deriving from cigarette sales and forming a discrete sub-economy, together with the interdependent parties and their wholly-owned affiliates (for example in the Public Health industry) who benefit from it, can be referred to as the smoking economy.

Unfortunately you are quite likely correct. The only chance vapers have is to bury the FDA's ecig regulations page and your government in comments. if we don't do it, we have no complaints when they kill them.

 

[Simon Akam]

Hello,

I see it's been posted here already, but a note to say my e-cigarette story ran on the cover of the European edition of Newsweek this week. The web version of the piece is available at the link below, and the attached images show how it appeared in print.

Big Tobacco fights back: how the cigarette kings bought the vaping industry

Many thanks for your help. Always interested to hear feedback, either @simonakam on twitter or here.

Yours,

Simon

 

[Chrissie]

Hello,

I see it's been posted here already, but a note to say my e-cigarette story ran on the cover of the European edition of Newsweek this week. The web version of the piece is available at the link below, and the attached images show how it appeared in print.

Big Tobacco fights back: how the cigarette kings bought the vaping industry

Many thanks for your help. Always interested to hear feedback, either @simonakam on twitter or here.

Yours,

Simon

It would be best to keep the feedback to this thread Simon as not everyone is on Twitter