From Newsweek writer re. BAT Vype e-cigarette

[Simon Akam]

Hello,

My name is Simon Akam and I am a contributing editor at the European edition of Newsweek magazine. For the past few months I have been working on a major story about electronic cigarettes, in particular looking at how large tobacco companies are responding to the technology. My prime focus is British American tobacco, who are marketing the Vype product in the UK. I have had extensive access within BAT's next generation products venture.

I am interested to hear the experiences of users of Vype, both the larger ePen and smaller eStick variants. What is is like? How effective is it? How does it compare to other products in the market, especially those from independent producers/mods etc? What about price point, availability etc?

Also, how influenced would you be by a product with a medicines license, as BAT's forthcoming Voke inhaler will have?

I need to hear feedback by the end of next week.

Cheers, and happy to answer any questions about the piece etc. Likewise my first time on this forum so apologies for any breach of etiquette etc.

Simon

 

[Shirtbloke]

Hi Simon. Don't have any experience of Vype stuff myself and I suspect most of the forum members here haven't either.

The people on here are something of a self selecting bunch and tend to be pretty knowledgeable about vaping matters - the Vype seems to be a consumer orientated ecig appealing to the new and inexperienced vaper so I don't know how much feedback you'll get - especially as it's a "Big Tobacco" product which most round here seem to avoid on principle. We've already given them tens of thousands of pounds over the years each and there's a certain amount of resentment about giving them any more.

I have seen the Vype ePen advertised on TV and they must be spending a fortune to promote it though for a starter kit the price isn't bad.

Just had a look at their website and I'm put off that they don't tell you the battery capacity, nor how much liquid the cartridges hold for the ePen. The eStick is just a generic "cigalike" as they're contemptuously known round here.

As for medical licensed stuff - the vaping industry is an incredibly fast moving and innovative market, there's new and better devices coming out literally every month and I suspect medically licensed gear is going to find itself frozen in time due to the costs of licensing and won't be succesful for that reason.

I look forward to reading the report. Good luck.

 

[twgbonehead]

Hi, Simon, Welcome to ECF!

You may want to read Smokey Joe's review (and the comments to it) here:

http://vaping.com/blog/bats-vype-e-cigarette-review-first-thoughts

(Smokey Joe is the founder of ECF).

 

[djsvapour]

Hi Simon.

I desperately hope you come back.

Facts;

1) products that look like a cigarette are often bogus, sham products. Lorillard (tobacco) company have recently released their research into the YIELD from e-cigs. Normally, I wouldn't trust them, but there is something very interesting in their findings.

Nicotine is found at levels 85% less than tobacco smoke. What this means is the a product like Vype which declares it's total nicotine content at 16mg per unit is actually giving the user about 2.4mg of Nicotine. That is about 3 normal cigarettes. (many brands are 0.8mg)....

Which is a beautiful segue into my next comment.

2) products that look like a cigarette are, for the most part, unfeasible expensive and, in reality under normal user conditions, little more than a PLACEBO.

The British public have been ripped off for too long by the likes of E-Lites and Nicolites, Njoy and Vype, because the product is next to useless and a massive money making scheme. They are not good enough to help most smokers quit 100%.

Very few existing vapers are likely to jump ship to medically regulated devices unless forced to do so by EU legislation.
Very few vapers consider even the larger versions of Vype (et al) to be worth a try, because, yet again, it's about the money.

Basically, Vype is a joke. The products are just a load of hot air (or is that hot steam).

Sure, they will corner the market with their adverts and glossy marketing, but they're not going very far other than to continue the mass brainwashing of the general public who can't be bothered to invest even 10 minutes of time on the internet to find out the truth about these products.

Most people who buy a cig-a-like in their local supermarket are either doomed to failure and return to smoking or look for something better.

£10 says you disregard my entire post. 3 years of my life, this is what I have worked out. It ain't rocket science.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Bump just because I'd like to hear people's views on this.

 

[Maytwin]

I'd pretty much agree with Shirtbloke and djs. I don't have any experience with Vype but they look much like the 510 cigalikes I tried first and which entirely failed to get me to quit smoking (but perhaps that's BAT's intention ). I suppose they could be seen as an introduction to the world of vaping for some as the 510s were for me, or useful for those who don't actually want to quit smoking entirely but can use one in No Smoking pubs for example. I've got absolutely no wish to use anything made by any tobacco company (particularly as BT is waging a war on vaping as I know it), and as to medical licensing, I would not be influenced by that at all - I'm not ill

 

[Shirtbloke]

I'd pretty much agree with Shirtbloke and djs. I don't have any experience with Vype but they look much like the 510 cigalikes I tried first and which entirely failed to get me to quit smoking (but perhaps that's BAT's intention ). I suppose they could be seen as an introduction to the world of vaping for some as the 510s were for me, or useful for those who don't actually want to quit smoking entirely but can use one in No Smoking pubs for example. I've got absolutely no wish to use anything made by any tobacco company (particularly as BT is waging a war on vaping as I know it), and as to medical licensing, I would not be influenced by that at all - I'm not ill

That's a good article you link to, though the guy called Gregory Bennet who's all over the comments is a complete and utter .....

 

[Maytwin]

Thanks Shirtbloke - off now to look at the comments

 

[Simon Akam]

Hello, thanks very much for all these responses - extremely interesting and I would be keen to hear more.

In answer to a couple of the points raised. The product that BAT have received a medical license for is the Voke, which is not yet at market. It's not electronic, rather powered by compressed gas, and uses HFA (found in asthma inhalers) as the vehicle to carry the nicotine, rather than propylene glycol, glycerol etc. My understanding, though I may not have been given the full picture, is that there is not a push towards medical certification with Vype.

As a medical/NRT type device it will also be eligible for reduced VAT of 5 %.

However, when BAT bought CN Creative one of their in-development products was called Nicadex, and that is an e-cig designed to potentially meet medical regulation.

I would be interested to hear in particular from users here about the Vype ePen, the larger model, which the company says offers mod-like performance. How does that compare with experiences here? Also, what about price point, given that it can only use BAT's proprietary cartridges?

Again, thanks for the lucid responses and look forward to continuing the discussion...

Simon

 

[Jwaterski]

I can't speak for every one here, but I know many of us would like a small simple device to vape. Most of us have discovered that any of the cig-alike devices just don't offer the performance we need though. You may have noticed you're currently in the "new member" section of this forum, but most of the questions and discussion even here has little to do with what most would consider "starter" kits or cig-alikes. The few you will find are almost always looking for something better. There is also a fairly strong distrust of big tobacco, so many here would not even consider a product promoted by them even if it turned out to be a good product. As for myself, after all the negative publicity vapors have received in the press, it trust them even less. At least the tobacco companies warn their customers their products are dangerous and addictive. Seems the press is willing to print almost anything without any research.

 

[klynnn]

I have been vaping in the US for quite awhile. One of the first things I quit using were cartridges, they never held up very long at all and are really old tech these days. I would not buy/use anything with proprietary cartridges or threading. All that does is keep you hooked to one supplier creating a monopoly.

 

[Shirtbloke]

I would be interested to hear in particular from users here about the Vype ePen, the larger model, which the company says offers mod-like performance. How does that compare with experiences here? Also, what about price point, given that it can only use BAT's proprietary cartridges?

Trouble with the proprietary cartridges is that you're locked into one manufacturer, with only them as a supplier and only those flavours/strengths that they deem acceptable. Many vapers point out that it's the variety of flavours that help keep them off cigarettes - and you aren't getting that with this system.

Big Tobacco is once again trying to jump on the vaping train and missing the mark completely. I suspect that they're just too monolithic and bureaucratic and as a result too slow to be able to keep up with the much smaller and quicker businesses who are innovating in the vaping industry.

 

[klynnn]

I commend the op for at least coming to the source for some info. I have read a great many articles on vaping, but very few of them have ever been interested in the what the actual vaper has to say. Just how much do you really think a person who has never smoked nor vaped knows about the subject. Very little from what I've seen.

 

[djsvapour]

I would be interested to hear in particular from users here about the Vype ePen, the larger model, which the company says offers mod-like performance. How does that compare with experiences here? Also, what about price point, given that it can only use BAT's proprietary cartridges?

I thought about buying a Vype pen.

£7.99 for 3 refills. They say 360 puffs per refill, I'd be surprised if that is accurate. (Happy to be wrong).

It can't (mathematically/scientifically) match a 'mod' for performance, not unless they have harnessed a technology that can turn a basic battery into a variable volt/watt one that can compete. No mention on the battery size (mAh), no mention of power (volts). Just the typical run-of-the-mill marketing comments about x,y, and z without any data/specifications to back it up.

On the surface, if one refill is £2.66 and does, say, 250 puffs (realistically) then we need to compare that to the price of refilling with liquid. They would say the beauty of the product is not refilling.

Well, E-Lites promised us that 4 years ago. Vaping 2ml a day using E-Lites was £3,200 per year. I spend about £1 a day, which is £365 per year.
Vype is clearly cheaper than E-Lites, which is good. They don't specify how much liquid each refill holds, so again, we are sailing off into the wind with no way of knowing the price comparison.
However, used at the higher power setting, one can safely say 200 puffs is going to be about the most one could hope for. That's going to be getting on for £1,000 per year with a fairly ineffective Nicotine yield.

I think I understand vaping and vapers - most smokers are going to need more than 1 refill a day. If they try to get away with just one, it is a 100% certainty they will have nicotine cravings. If you read my previous comment, I referred to the Lorillard Study that vapour contains (perhaps) 85% less Nicotine than tobacco smoke.

So - CONCLUSION.

It might be a perfectly acceptable vaping device. It might not seem overly expensive at first glance. BUT, the bottom line will be exactly the same as all these products.
To get enough Nicotine to be an alternative to smoking, you are going to need to spend a lot of money on the refills (I would guess 2-3 per day to deal with cravings) or suffer Nicotine withdrawal.

- - -

I have less interest in "medical device" products. I expect the NHS can ill-afford to pay for prescriptions for smokers who want to quit. The NRT gravy train had over a 90% failure rate, in reality. I expect a tobacco company is rubbing it's hands in glee at the possibility of paying a few million for a license and then recoup multi-millions for prescriptions and/or private people using these products as opposed to them giving millions a year to the Pharmaceutical companies.

NRT was an epic fail. e-cigs could be an epic success. Rumour has it BOTH tobacco and pharma want to see an end to e-cigs as we know them. They will lobby governments to reach that end goal; I for one think they will succeed.

 

[realsis]

Hi there, I can't speak for everyone here, only myself. First I've not had experienced vype however when I first tried to quit smoking I tried a similar cigalikes and was NOT able to quit smoking with them. I was however able to quit with a set up a lot like I have now. I've been smoke free for almost a year now. Let me compare cigalikes to what I use now. The cigalike battery does not last maybe a hour or two, my current set up batteries last 3 days before needing charged. The cigalikes (as I call them) have hardly any vapor and a bad taste. My set up now I make my own coils for my tanks and get plenty of vapor and have litterly hundreds of flavors I can choose or make myself. The cigalikes cartridges were extremely expensive, with my set up now I can make many many many tank coils for much less with a spool of kanthal wire. The cigalikes has zero customazation ability. With my set up now I can vape from 7 watts to 150 watts . I'm using a box mod that goes to 150 watts. The tanks I use are all rebuildable. My ejuice I make for pennies on the dollar. Once I had the freedom that my current device gives I was able to quit smoking. It's almost been a year for me. I just don't see myself going back to something I can't customize that will cost five times as much and offer less flavor and little vapor with no lasting battery life. I hope I explained this alright. I think it's about customazation and the ability to have many choices. That's what I love about my current set up. I have invested in many different rebuildable tanks that each offer a little different vape with each tank. However they can be rebuilt and reused indefinitely. Which is very cost effective. I'm not at all interested in the cigalikes when I can have a custom vape with my current set up. I hope this helps your study. Just to clear things up, I call any electronic cigarette that looks like a cigarette, a cigalike. Just wanted to clear that up. I think most vapors are looking for something that satisfies and saves money and something they can customize.

 

[Bunnykiller]

just to add to the mire...

seems as if any mass produced product coming from a big tobacco source is lethargic in flavor and delivery, the cost is close to being equal to smoking, the quality/longevevity of the product is minimal... Blu is one of the "more popular" units in USA and the "throw away" version is just terrible... I had bought several and they were already dead when I opened up the packaging...

 

[SunshinePete]

People in this forum are almost all declared vapers, who won't be the target market for Vype. I just want to comment on the 'medical licence' point; I don't trust the nanny state to determine what I may put in my mouth, and view this joining of forces by big business and government in much the same way as I view the connections between the banking industry and politicians. I smell a big fat rat with a well-stuffed wallet.

 

[Susan~S]

Hello, thanks very much for all these responses - extremely interesting and I would be keen to hear more.

Hello and welcome to the forum Simon. Glad to have you here!

It's refreshing to see a reporter who is interested in going "right to the source" to get opinions on this topic. I've been vaping 8+years and so I have seen (and experienced) the development of this industry.

I have a lot to say, but will hold off until I get a response back from Vype on the following questions I have on the ePen.

1. How large is the battery (in mAh)?
2. What is the voltage in the two different settings?
3. Can the atomizer (the coils) be replaced when it no longer works or performs well?
4. Can I use my eliquid purchased at a vape shop to refill the cartridges?

Since it's the weekend, I don't expect a response back until sometime next week. I would be really surprise if customer service has the answers to these questions at their fingertips.

Will post again once I hear back from Vype.

 

[Chrissie]

Hello & welcome Simon

I started of with a ciggie lookalike (7 years ago in July). It helped me cut down drastically, but it wasn't till I got better kit & e-liquids that I managed to completely give up smoking.

I would never recommend Vype, in any shape or form, to anyone. There are far better & cheaper alternatives available.

 

[Shirtbloke]

Hello and welcome to the forum Simon. Glad to have you here!


3. Can the atomizer (the coils) be replaced when it no longer works or performs well?
4. Can I use my eliquid purchased at a vape shop to refill the cartridges?

I'd put money on the answers to those two being no and no.