What is the consensus here on extremely sub ohm builds?

[ReigntheGamer]

Because they had no way of knowing that it was a "bad choice".

No different than buying a defective baby crib or car seat. You won't know that it was a "bad choice" until it's to late, unless someone tells you that it's a bad choice.

Not so much. With all the resources online you can learn just about anything with a little common sense and searching multiple sources. And these devices aren't defective when sold, they are doing exactly what they should under the given circumstances. What is defective is the operator's understanding of the device.

If these devices were failing because of manufacturing defects not known to the public I would agree completely but this is not the case.

 

[beckdg]

Bad Ninja, I have to disagree with you on what is taught in school. I am the same age as you. I'm gifted in science and took the honors classes. I did not learn Ohm's Law and DC electronics until physics in 12th grade. I also attended a high school where 90% of the graduates go on to college.

Shop class hasn't existed for many years now. More rigorous academic standards have forced schools to remove it from the curriculum. And of course girls were strongly discouraged from taking it back in our day. I did take wood shop in 8th grade instead of home ec, but trust me, that was a battle to earn my right to do so.

Not all students take physics. Its not required to graduate or to go to college.

Which is embarrasing.

I'm 38.

I had the lesson bad ninja speaks of in 4th grade.

The teacher sat us down with planks with a AA battery cradle, a 9V cradle and a light bulb cradle with some wire leads and alligator clips. Then he gave us a potato, a dead AA battery, a good AA battery and a 9 volt. Then he wrote a diagram on the chalk board explaining how electrons moved by being pulled from the negative contact to the positive contact. He used the dead AA battery to illustrate what happens when the electrons had equalized between the anode and the cathode. Then we lit the bulb with increasing intensity from the potato to the 9V.

In 4th grade.

People shouldn't be able to obtain a driving license without some understanding of a lead acid battery and at the very least enough information to keep them from deploying their air bags while peering under the hood IMO.

Tapatyped

 

[jseah]

The lowest I've gone is 0.06 ohms....but that was with a dual nickel coil build.

 

[tj99959]

Not so much. With all the resources online you can learn just about anything with a little common sense and searching multiple sources. And these devices aren't defective when sold, they are doing exactly what they should under the given circumstances. What is defective is the operator's understanding of the device.

If these devices were failing because of manufacturing defects not known to the public I would agree completely but this is not the case.

Until such time as hybrid top caps use something other than the 510 connection, the problem will continue. Manufacturers already know what the problem is!!!, but the general public obviously doesn't.

To be blunt, if these top caps were about dog food or baby cribs, there would have already been a recall!
It only took 5 Colgate electric toothbrushes exploding for them to be removed from the market.

 

[Paradicio]

I only build with Kanthal and the lowest I go is .3 (dual coil) on my RDAs (running on mechanical mods). My RTAs all run at .7 or 1.2 (single coil) on regulated mods, depending on whether my device uses 1 or 2 18650's. I've got one RDA running on a VW device (Hexohm), and it's built at .45. In all honesty, these builds are my vape "happy place". I see no reason to go lower or higher on any of them.

 

[edyle]

That's a bold, incomplete and uneducated statement.

Alkaline, nicad, Nimh and lithium hybrid AA, AAA, C, SUB C, D and 9V batteries all have the potential for explosion.

The same as any energy storage device encased in metal.

It's all about the care needed vs. The abuse given to each chemistry.

Tapatyped

a 2000 mAH 18650 IMR battery has something like 10 watthours of energy.

How much energy does a Size D Alkaline Duracell battery have?

Lithium batteries can run into a thermal runaway condition, essentially an explosive chain reaction.

Battery energy storage in various battery sizes

Battery
Type Avg. voltage
During discharge milli-Amp
hours (mAh) Watt-hours
Wh Joules
J
Alkaline
Long-life 1.225 17000 20.83 74970
Carbon-zinc 1.1 4733 5.21 18743
Nickel-Cadmium 1.2 5000 6.00 21600
NiMH 1.2 9500 11.40 41040

Ok, that's a bit of a shock:
Alkaline long life: 20 watt hours !

 

[beckdg]

a 2000 mAH 18650 IMR battery has something like 10 watthours of energy.

How much energy does a Size D Alkaline Duracell battery have?

Lithium batteries can run into a thermal runaway condition, essentially an explosive chain reaction.

Put it in your hand tightly then let it explode. Can you lose a finger from any of these options?

Yes...

Still dangerous.

Still explosive... The battery... because of the case... pressure builds up then boom.

The reaction isn't explosive.

It's a thermochemical chain reaction that creates gasses in an enclosed metal casing.

The fact that it pressurizes the case is what makes THE CASE explosive. For which that explosion is a one shot deal.

Though the thermochemical reaction might continue, the explosion is done the very instant the casing let's go.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Ok, that's a bit of a shock:
Alkaline long life: 20 watt hours !

That's correct. A D cell alkaline has approximately 2.5 times the stored energy as your 8 watt hour (2000mah*4V) 18650 limn example.

Tapatyped

 

[HighPlainsPuffer]

I love how new regulations will always save lives. It's never been the government's job to save us from ourselves... Not until the last 20 years at least! MOST folks that purchase something that could have consequences through misuse will do the research to LEARN about how to avoid said consequences. Be it guns, cars, chainsaws or lawnmowers, responsible folks will educate themselves to know how to use whatever they're buying, at the very least reading the owner's manual. You can't force education on people, and by passing regulations you remove the burden on the self to get educated, and rather just assume everything is totally safe cause someone else is telling you it's safe. THIS IS MORE DANGEROUS!!! Remove regulations, allow folks to know life might just be dangerous, let them make their own decisions, and fewer accidents would happen in everything.

 

[tj99959]

Put it in your hand tightly then let it explode. Can you lose a finger from any of these options?

Yes...

Still dangerous.

Still explosive... The battery... because of the case... pressure builds up then boom.

The reaction isn't explosive.

It's a thermochemical chain reaction that creates gasses in an enclosed metal casing.

The fact that it pressurizes the case is what makes THE CASE explosive. For which that explosion is a one shot deal.

Though the thermochemical reaction might continue, the explosion is done the very instant the casing let's go.

Tapatyped

A thermal nuclear reaction isn't an explosion either

Sorry, but a rapid expansion of gas is an explosive expansion of gas, just like an A bomb.

 

[beckdg]

Lithium batteries can run into a thermal runaway condition, essentially an explosive chain reaction.

The reaction isn't explosive.

It's a thermochemical chain reaction that creates gasses in an enclosed metal casing.

A thermal nuclear reaction isn't an explosion either

Thank you for clearing that up, I guess.

But I'm not aware of any mod size batteries that work on that chemistry.

Can you provide me a link?



Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

ROFL
Workin on it

Technically ANY rapid release of energy is an explosion. Even a match "explodes" into flame.
A runner "explodes" from the starting blocks.

 

[beckdg]

Sorry, but a rapid expansion of gas is an explosive expansion of gas, just like an A bomb.

ex·plo·sive
ikˈsplōsiv,ikˈsplōziv/
adjective
1.
able or likely to shatter violently or burst apart, as when a bomb explodes.

Once the case is open, the properties that define explosive or explosion are nullified. It's just a rapid release or expansion of gases. Not capable of explosion.

Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

OK, now look up the verb.

 

[wheelie]

I have enough worries in my life to fill up my little pea brain which leaves no room to worry about what others are doing. Most times people bring trouble on for themselves. "Have at it" if that's what you want to do. Be stupid about it and I am going to laugh when you run into trouble. That's my opinion on stupid low builds, wrong batteries, over amping batteries and what have you. All the warnings are out there for people to go by. Someday a vape shop will get sued for building a super low build for an inexperienced person and that will change the game. CHEERS!

 

[beckdg]

ROFL
Workin on it

Technically ANY rapid release of energy is an explosion. Even a match "explodes" into flame.
A runner "explodes" from the starting blocks.

What defines those to events as an explosion is the sudden burst.

The runner still runs after the explosion.

The match still burns after it bursts into flames.

A Lithium cell still emits gasses after the casing bursts.

Without the casing, there's no shrapnel, pressure or explosion.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

OK, now look up the verb.

Doh!

For explosive you have adjective or noun.



Did you mean explode?

Tapatyped

 

[roxynoodle]

Which is embarrasing.

I'm 38.

I had the lesson bad ninja speaks of in 4th grade.

The teacher sat us down with planks with a AA battery cradle, a 9V cradle and a light bulb cradle with some wire leads and alligator clips. Then he gave us a potato, a dead AA battery, a good AA battery and a 9 volt. Then he wrote a diagram on the chalk board explaining how electrons moved by being pulled from the negative contact to the positive contact. He used the dead AA battery to illustrate what happens when the electrons had equalized between the anode and the cathode. Then we lit the bulb with increasing intensity from the potato to the 9V.

In 4th grade.

People shouldn't be able to obtain a driving license without some understanding of a lead acid battery and at the very least enough information to keep them from deploying their air bags while peering under the hood IMO.

Tapatyped

Yeah, we did that stuff. But, we weren't using Ohm's Law and the Power Law and working problems with AC and DC circuits.

 

[tj99959]

Yes, the word has three forms.
Explode ... verb
Explosion ... noun
Explosive ... adjective or noun

Lord, 4th grade was 65 years ago, I remember that I hated that teacher, (she had a BIG ruler) but I don't remember much of anything else.

 

[HauntedMyst]

What is the consensus here on extremely sub ohm builds?

I don't have a consensus but I do have an opinion. Within any area, it's human nature for some to explore the boundaries, some educated, some ignorant. Some will be successful, others will fail like the Hindenburg or the Titanic. Base Jumping is the perfect example. You take a dangerous sport like parachuting and amp it up to the level of stupid so spectacular it borders on incomprehension. But people are going to be who they are going to be and accidents will happen. Focusing on it will only give you a headache or an ulcer. Or if you are sadist, fits of uncontrolled laughter watching fail videos on youtube.