Nicotine and heart disease

[DC2]

The biggest problem with the fight right now is that we haven't been given the ability to debated the ANTZ experts. We speak, and sound like whatever, and they speak and attach titles to their names. No matter what manner of horse.... they spew, some people will fall victim to the logical fault of assuming the source makes the content valid or invalid. We need to find a way to get one of our best and most educated public speakers in a one- on-one structured debate and watch them crumble.

It has happened a couple of times, but never really on a national stage...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/462779-radio-times-show-ecigs.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ds-up-talk-radio-tackling-e-cigs-tonight.html

It is unlikely that the ANTZ would participate in a debate on the national stage with anyone qualified to make them look like idiots.

 

[ennagizer]

I think I have an attitude problem........

I don't care what "they" say. "they" change "their" minds too often

in the 80's we were told to eat low fat
and
BBQ, peanut butter and coffee were going to give you cancer

then in the 2000's "they" said "oh, eating low fat made us all fat" (duh)
and coffee is good for us ...

but, antibiotics & pesticides & heaven knows what else in our food is perfectly ok

I think I'll continue to follow my own instincts!

And now vitamins. Can't leave vitamins out of the equation....

Vitamins Lack Clear Health Benefits, May Pose Risks - Forbes

 

[AgentAnia]

....It is unlikely that the ANTZ would participate in a debate on the national stage with anyone qualified to make them look like idiots.

True dat!...

 

[AgentAnia]

And now vitamins. Can't leave vitamins out of the equation....

Vitamins Lack Clear Health Benefits, May Pose Risks - Forbes

But wait a minute... Here's the conclusion of the researchers, as quoted in Forbes:

“Although available evidence does not rule out small benefits or harms or large benefits or harms in a small subgroup of the population,” the writers conclude, “we believe that the case is closed — supplementing the diet of well-nourished adults with (most) mineral or vitamin supplements has no clear benefit and might even be harmful. These vitamins should not be used for chronic disease prevention. Enough is enough.”

And another tidbit:

The authors of the editorial conclude, “The message is simple: Most supplements do not prevent chronic disease or death, their use is not justified, and they should be avoided.”

I don't know about you, but I don't take my multivitamin in order not to have a heart attack or get cancer, or because it might prevent me from dying. I take it for my general health. Nowhere (at least as reported by Forbes) have the researchers addressed this basic issue.

Media's attention-grabbing fearmongering headlines are perhaps the greatest threat to health so far!

 

[DC2]

I don't know whether or not vitamins or supplements have any clear benefit...
I just know that Big Pharma wants you to think they don't.

Someday I might start a vitamins and supplements subforum somewhere around here.
I trust the folks on this forum more than anything I'll ever read anywhere else.

 

[Tache]

I was in a health food store several months ago to pick up - vitamins! Anyway, I was struck by how similar a fight to ours they are having with Big Pharma and legislators around regulation of supplements.

In many ways I think the consumers are in the best position to "regulate" consumer products at least when they have active forums like ECF to share information and make sure we stick to "the facts". Poor quality products can not exist in such an open information environment.

The piece we can't cover, without the help of ethical scientists, is unintended chemical interactions that don't show up immediately (eg the issues with Thalydimide or more recently some birth control pills). Interesting that the only examples that came quickly to mind had to do with BP - makes you go, hmmmm.

 

[Erncig]

From what I have read, so called vitamins are synthetically made, there is nothing natural or healthy about them. It's not like they scrape the the vitamins from vegetables and put them in a tablet. Sure they can mask symptoms once you get sick, but don't fool yourself into thinking they will keep you from getting sick.

The body most likely knows whats real and whats not real, and whats not real is most likely not good for you.

If you want to be healthy, you need to eat/drink healthy, not take a magic pill.

Just my opinion, I'm no doctor

 

[rothenbj]

I was in a health food store several months ago to pick up - vitamins! Anyway, I was struck by how similar a fight to ours they are having with Big Pharma and legislators around regulation of supplements.

In many ways I think the consumers are in the best position to "regulate" consumer products at least when they have active forums like ECF to share information and make sure we stick to "the facts". Poor quality products can not exist in such an open information environment.

The piece we can't cover, without the help of ethical scientists, is unintended chemical interactions that don't show up immediately (eg the issues with Thalydimide or more recently some birth control pills). Interesting that the only examples that came quickly to mind had to do with BP - makes you go, hmmmm.

This again appears to be the protection of BP's profit centers. The battle has been on for decades and it appears to be headed into the same black hole that e cigs may fall into. A good article on the subject, FDA unleashes end game scheme to outlaw virtually all dietary supplements formulated after 1994 will show you the similarities and how the FDA will insure you live your live in BP approved chemicals.

 

[Sundodger]

From what I have read, so called vitamins are synthetically made, there is nothing natural or healthy about them. It's not like they scrape the the vitamins from vegetables and put them in a tablet. Sure they can mask symptoms once you get sick, but don't fool yourself into thinking they will keep you from getting sick.

The body most likely knows whats real and whats not real, and whats not real is most likely not good for you.

If you want to be healthy, you need to eat/drink healthy, not take a magic pill.

Just my opinion, I'm no doctor

Vitamins do work, mineral supplements work, pro-biotics do work. Vitamins and minerals are a lot like the PG/VG we all know about. USP grade ingredients, IMO are a must. Time tested rate of how fast they dissolve is another factor.

The food most people get is not good enough for our bodies without supplements. The air we breathe, the water we drink all are full of crud never intended for the human body to process. I like how the study used Dr's 65 and older in one part. Ya think they don't have a little more time and money to get the best food and eat properly, unlike the majority of families that I know, both parents working, kids having no certain schedules, school, sports, other activities. The study should have used regular people, eating what regular people have available for the time they have in their lives.

I have a knee that if I don't take glucosomine regularly blows up like a balloon, that's not psychological, that's physical, so it's not in my mind that it helps.

Years ago my oldest son had bad ear infections, Dr's poured him full of anti-biotics. Had an old nurse tell us to give him yogurt with live cultures to offset the effects of the anti-biotics. Asked the Dr about this and he said no way, that stuff can't survive in the stomach. He almost died from a perforated colon. Later we got another Dr that said yes absolutely use the yogurt and now days it is almost universally recommended to use pro-biotics for digestive health.

Just like with tobacco follow the money, push the drugs and tell the sheep that grass they are grazing on ain't no good for you, so here eat this pill that our buddies made and we approve of, oh and that will be $XXXX.XX and I'll see you again in a month, if you survive.

 

[LaraC]

More BAD science.

Did he use "pure" nicotine or CSE for his tests?
Oh...ewww...
Yeah...nothing useful here, Ming just likes his name in the news.


FUD IS FUD

Have fun
I

Excellent point, Izan.

So, I went a'Googlin' and found this little morsel in the abstract:

"We tested the hypothesis that cigarette smoke extract (CSE) modulates the structure and function of podosomes in VSMCs."

OASIS

 

[Sundodger]

Excellent point, Izan.

So, I went a'Googlin' and found this little morsel in the abstract:

"We tested the hypothesis that cigarette smoke extract (CSE) modulates the structure and function of podosomes in VSMCs."

OASIS

VERY nice find. Cigarette Smoke Extract being used, what a misleading bunch of xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

 

[Uma]

Strange isn't it how the FDA is trying desperately to ban the essentials our bodies need, from vitamins to nicotine, while the powers that be protect & promote GMO's MonSantos that is known to cause the ailments that nicotine & vitamins help to avoid. http://globalresearchreport.com/201...hrenia-bipolar/#sthash.aHf4jo3D.4vgNe5El.dpbs

 

[Uma]

Excellent point, Izan.

So, I went a'Googlin' and found this little morsel in the abstract:

"We tested the hypothesis that cigarette smoke extract (CSE) modulates the structure and function of podosomes in VSMCs."

OASIS

VERY nice find. Cigarette Smoke Extract being used, what a misleading bunch of xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

Excellent sleuthing!!!

 

[LaraC]

Thanks, but Izan had already done the sleuthing and deserves the credit. I just wanted to see it for myself...and post a link to the abstract.

More BAD science.

Did he use "pure" nicotine or CSE for his tests?
Oh...ewww...
Yeah...nothing useful here, Ming just likes his name in the news.


FUD IS FUD