Kanger Protank Airflow Fix

[Alter]

The restricted airflow in the new kanger products is the crappy opaque clearish positive insulator they are using in their boxed protanks and heads. Yes it squishes if it overtightened by a little bit, also it becomes very slick and soft if there is juice on it so IMO by shaving part of the insulator off its not solving any problem. Kanger crapped the bed on their insulators to the point that I will not use the ones that are in the box. The blister pack heads are still whitish and more rubbery looking and perform much better. I also have a few of the fasttech evod heads around and their insulators are a bit bigger than the protanks, so a insulator swap and they seem to work, but I got several boxes of older PT blisterpack heads around so it hasn't become a problem for me yet. I've read many, many threads and posts about airflow issues and without diving in and learning a little DIY your going to be dead in the water.
There is no real solution to the airflow problem so many are having other than removing the head, pulling down the pin a ioda, rerounding the insulator and pulling it down too and NOT tighten the atty on too tight. With the tital wave of clones and knockoff PV's that have crappy, soft 510 threads on them and those threads wear out real quick and force you to tighten the atty on more and more so your PT is not loose then your going to eventually have to tighten too much that it will squish the insulator thus blocking airflow.
I've been rebuilding my own PT heads for a while now and came across these substandard insulators(opaque clearish) when I received my first PT2 and had the exact airflow issue so many talk about but in the same order I received blisterpack of heads that had different colored(whitish) insulators in them.

 

[Trayce]

[...]I've been rebuilding my own PT heads for a while now and came across these substandard insulators(opaque clearish) when I received my first PT2 and had the exact airflow issue so many talk about but in the same order I received blisterpack of heads that had different colored(whitish) insulators in them.

FTR, the new cloudy-white-clearish insulators are not "sub-standard," they are an upgrade to medical/food grade silicone vs the old chemical rubber insulators. The rubber grommets (insulators) add a horrid flavor to the vape for many. When heated they release fumes, and when charred they'll make you puke your hit out. Those fumes cannot be healthy to vape. Food grade silicone is inert, so even if it heats up it won't release fumes or flavor your vape. It is a much safer material that improves flavor by not interfering with it. I applaud Kanger for making the switch. I hope all other manuf's follow.

That said, silicone is a more pliable material and so this air flow issue has come up with PT2s, (though it isn't so much of a problem with eGo base devices which have better air flow). I'm sure Kanger will work it out over time and the technology will keep evolving... nothing is perfect at this point, which isn't surprising for a fairly new industry in what amounts to its infancy.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

FTR, the new cloudy-white-clearish insulators are not "sub-standard," they are an upgrade to medical/food grade silicone vs the old chemical rubber insulators. The rubber grommets (insulators) add a horrid flavor to the vape for many. When heated they release fumes, and when charred they'll make you puke your hit out. Those fumes cannot be healthy to vape. Food grade silicone is inert, so even if it heats up it won't release fumes or flavor your vape. It is a much safer material that improves flavor by not interfering with it. I applaud Kanger for making the switch. I hope all other manuf's follow.

That said, silicone is a more pliable material and so this air flow issue has come up with PT2s, (though it isn't so much of a problem with eGo base devices which have better air flow). I'm sure Kanger will work it out over time and the technology will keep evolving... nothing is perfect at this point, which isn't surprising for a fairly new industry in what amounts to its infancy.

Wow, Thanks for the info, I haven't seen the new grommets/insulators yet. I been doing rebuilds on all my old heads with the old rubbers.

I agree, And I hope all the other manufacturers follow Kangers lead, There is always room for improvement.

Vape On!!!

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

The restricted airflow in the new kanger products is the crappy opaque clearish positive insulator they are using in their boxed protanks and heads. Yes it squishes if it overtightened by a little bit, also it becomes very slick and soft if there is juice on it so IMO by shaving part of the insulator off its not solving any problem. Kanger crapped the bed on their insulators to the point that I will not use the ones that are in the box. The blister pack heads are still whitish and more rubbery looking and perform much better. I also have a few of the fasttech evod heads around and their insulators are a bit bigger than the protanks, so a insulator swap and they seem to work, but I got several boxes of older PT blisterpack heads around so it hasn't become a problem for me yet. I've read many, many threads and posts about airflow issues and without diving in and learning a little DIY your going to be dead in the water.
There is no real solution to the airflow problem so many are having other than removing the head, pulling down the pin a ioda, rerounding the insulator and pulling it down too and NOT tighten the atty on too tight. With the tital wave of clones and knockoff PV's that have crappy, soft 510 threads on them and those threads wear out real quick and force you to tighten the atty on more and more so your PT is not loose then your going to eventually have to tighten too much that it will squish the insulator thus blocking airflow.
I've been rebuilding my own PT heads for a while now and came across these substandard insulators(opaque clearish) when I received my first PT2 and had the exact airflow issue so many talk about but in the same order I received blisterpack of heads that had different colored(whitish) insulators in them.

Not sure I agree that the average vaper should learn to rebuild or just give up? and if they pull their existing grommets they chance loosing the leads, at the cost of even more money and frustration?

Look man, I'm not trying to bust your nuts here, I also rebuild my heads, But... I also understand not everyone is so inclined to do so.

Therefore I tried to come up with a simple and cheap solution to the issue for the "Average" vaper, Or even people that are just looking to fix the issue without buying more parts... I think I covered this in the beginning of the post!!!

Edit: There is actually a more permanent but risky fix and I don't recommend it, On devices with a Non-adjustable center pin, I guess if you want to risk ruining your device you cold just grind that pin, Again NOT recommended!!!

Also at time of the original post the "Clearish" silicon grommets didn't exist in my collection, Not that this would have effected my problem solving capabilities. But I really have no knowledge about these new silicon grommets so can't form an opinion about them, I can't even say if this fix will work on them yet.

 

[Scott Campbell]

Al my insulators are solid white...have yet to see the silicone heads (mine are genuine Kanger heads from Discount Vapers). Where can I find the "new" silicone insulators? Have folks been having a better experience with them?

 

[Trayce]

Al my insulators are solid white...have yet to see the silicone heads (mine are genuine Kanger heads from Discount Vapers). Where can I find the "new" silicone insulators? Have folks been having a better experience with them?

AFAIK the new silicone insulators by themselves are not available as spare parts (yet?). One member in another thread said he found the new heads with the silicone grommets and no-res legs available at his local vape shop for $3.95 EACH (he admits they overcharge) and that he liked the improved flavor.... of course if you are someone who never noticed the horrid rubber taste, then you might not be able to tell a difference. It's only a matter of time before they are available everywhere, I trust.

In the meantime I swapped out my rubber insulators for silicone tubing. I couldn't even use my tanks with those stinky rubber insulators. The tubing has some of the same issues as the silicone grommets, in that it can be compressed and block air flow in the PT2, if tightened. But I can use my tanks again, thankfully. Silicone eliminates the STINKY RUBBER FLAVOR so all you taste is pure juice.

PBusardo reviewed the new heads (sort of) on his website on Oct 4th: tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/2013/10/04/nothing-like-some-new-heads/

(Won't let me add the live link for some reason..)

 

[Rickajho]

hey ZOMBIE!!!,

this is what I’m thinking
being the 510 connection of the Protank / Unitank
the insulator/center pin is capsulated INSIDE the 510 connector
not sure how it could be 'over' compressed...

now looking at the bcc's with ego threaded skirts, the possibility is there,
however, I (yet) don't think there is enuff grommet to squish out
and make a seal around the inside circumference…

the theory is there (I like it a lot), but I need more convincing…

I had to look at Zombie's graphic more than once but the overall concept of how airflow works in a PT base is there. And we do know there have been reports on ECF of a totally blocked PT - like sucking on a closed straw. If what Zombie found is true then I have to agree with crxess - there have to be some really bad, out of spec knockoffs out there. On my OEM Kanger coils there just isn't enough exposed center post insulator to cause that kind of a problem - no matter how hard I try to squoosh it. And I'm talking trying to compress that sucker way above and beyond what someone could ever do over-tightening a PT onto a battery. I have wondered what on earth could cause a vacuum lock in a Pro Tank as they have been described since air flow into the tank goes right through the middle of the center post. Based on observation of my coils, fitted to a PT base, and installed in a PT, I couldn't understand where the potential source of the blockage could be. An oversize center post insulator would do it.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

I had to look at Zombie's graphic more than once but the overall concept of how airflow works in a PT base is there. And we do know there have been reports on ECF of a totally blocked PT - like sucking on a closed straw. If what Zombie found is true then I have to agree with crxess - there have to be some really bad, out of spec knockoffs out there. On my OEM Kanger coils there just isn't enough exposed center post insulator to cause that kind of a problem - no matter how hard I try to squoosh it. And I'm talking trying to compress that sucker way above and beyond what someone could ever do over-tightening a PT onto a battery. I have wondered what on earth could cause a vacuum lock in a Pro Tank as they have been described since air flow into the tank goes right through the middle of the center post. Based on observation of my coils, fitted to a PT base, and installed in a PT, I couldn't understand where the potential source of the blockage could be. An oversize center post insulator would do it.

Well I totally disagree with crxess, Knowing and guessing are two different things, Because I know where the heads came from and also know how to asses the situation and take proper measurements, Therefore I know the parts are genuine, The differences are minimal and the final outcome is simple!

Anyone can stand in front of a broken down vehicle and tell you it's broken when asked whats wrong with it.
Where as an intelligent man will say I'm not sure yet, But let me look and I'll try to figure it out!!!
But an idiot however will state in fact that it's out of gas before even looking!!!
So to state it's an out of spec knockoff grommet without knowing...
well I think we get the picture.

(Revised to be more specific)

This fix is for (KangerTech Heads) on and for (KangerTech Protanks).

Also This Fix Is To Cover The "No" Airflo issue... "Not" The Airy Draw Issue

(This thread is for a specific Brand (KangerTech) and (The Kanger Protank Line made by KangerTech)
(Excluding the Mini Protank, As this issue can't effect them seeing as the grommet is fully exposed)

I use only authentic KangerTech parts on my KangerTech products.
If you are using 3rd party parts, knockoffs, clones or a different item all together
(ADDED) "or if you'r not having the issue and know nothing about it"
then Please ignore this thread and start a new thread for your specific item and issue.

Sorry about the NEW opening to this post but I needed to clear up a few things since on my original post for this fix some people got confused somehow)
(I also added a larger image)

Thank You and Please Continue!!!​

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

Here... Please watch the video...
(The fun starts at around 9min into the video for those of you with short attention spans)



Now keep in mind a dumb week old noob figured this out the first day with his shiny new ProTank II!!!
Really tired of explaining this to you know it all veteran vapers!

Really wish I could delete this thread, Wish even more that I could ignore it all together...
It wasn't worth my time to even post it considering what took me 5 min to figure out has taken weeks to try and get across to some of you!!!

The crazy thing is that even after the issue is pointed out, Explained and broken down, People aren't able to take that extra step in completing the full analysis of the issue to determine the cause and effect...
But then again what does a dumb noob know about vape gear right?

My heads came just as PBusardo's did, Right in the box with the tanks, I really need to know one thing...
Why the hell do I have to keep explaining this to you people!

But here we go one more time...
The pin... Your contact on top of your device in the center of the 510 connector that delivers power to your atomizer, If this pin is to long it will cause the issue to appear on some of the heads, "SOME" The reason is
(Can't believe I'm explaining this again)
the grommet gets compressed and bulges out, Look guys I know you hate reading directions, But stop looking at the damn picture and read what is written... It goes into the tube!!! The pin does not sit flush on the bottom of the tube because if it did the device would short out!!! It goes inside!!!

The difference of the grommets that do this is minimal, Hard to see, It's almost more of an issue in the density of the rubber/silicon, Not that I even give a $#!^ because there is alot to be said about density here!!!
Makes me laugh to know a dumb noob understands exactly what's going on here, meanwhile you guys just keep trying to figure it out even after it has been pointed out!!!



And just to avoid any further confusion... Yes I am laughing at you!!!
As for all the intelligent people out there, Feel free to laugh along with me, Or just smirk contently.​

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

AFAIK the new silicone insulators by themselves are not available as spare parts (yet?). One member in another thread said he found the new heads with the silicone grommets and no-res legs available at his local vape shop for $3.95 EACH (he admits they overcharge) and that he liked the improved flavor.... of course if you are someone who never noticed the horrid rubber taste, then you might not be able to tell a difference. It's only a matter of time before they are available everywhere, I trust.

In the meantime I swapped out my rubber insulators for silicone tubing. I couldn't even use my tanks with those stinky rubber insulators. The tubing has some of the same issues as the silicone grommets, in that it can be compressed and block air flow in the PT2, if tightened. But I can use my tanks again, thankfully. Silicone eliminates the STINKY RUBBER FLAVOR so all you taste is pure juice.

PBusardo reviewed the new heads (sort of) on his website on Oct 4th: tasteyourjuice.com/wordpress/2013/10/04/nothing-like-some-new-heads/

(Won't let me add the live link for some reason..)

Oh wow, So they really went after that burnt taste in the heads then, I been making my own "resistance to non-resistance" wire to do my coils and stop some of that burning taste, I have to give kanger credit for always trying to step up the game, even though I think they failed a little with the BDC design, Only because it's not interchangeable on other products of theirs.

 

[Trayce]

@ Green Zombie, I can understand why you are frustrated but I would kindly offer that letting your anger out on the forum by being disrespectful in your reply to the veterans (or anyone) might make it hard for you to get all you can get out of this forum in the future. The veterans do have a lot of expertise and their contributions on EFC are significant and help many people. But everyone can make a mistake once in awhile, or get something wrong. We're all trying to figure this out together as we go... not just on this thread, but in general.

Everyone has an opinion and theory and because all this gear (or most of it, unless you have a Provari) is made in China, the quality control and specs can be all over the place, which means people genuinely have differing experiences with the same equipment. Kanger can hire one manuf to do a run once time, and another to do a run another time, and the "same authentic" Kanger heads/grommets/whatever can have variances. On top of that, they started using new silicone insulators and not everyone realizes that yet.

I am also a newbie but when the silicone grommets I made compressed, bulged out, and completely blocked flow to the PT2... until I unscrewed the tank a bit (much like Busardo) ...I also figured out what was happening and arrived at the same conclusion you did, though I hadn't seen this thread. And it IS that a flared or bulging post insulator (I call them grommets) can and will block airflow on the PT2. This happens more with the new silicone grommets because they are softer than the old rubber ones... the old ribber ones had to be "out of spec" (fatter than they should be from the start) to cause a problem. Silicone is so soft, it can look perfect when installed in the head, but once you put on the device, as soon as the pin starts pressing up against the mod pin, you have compression. For people who screw their tanks on a little further than others, the problem is worse... and then the grommets might not all be exactly the same and we're talking a very small variance here needed to block airflow.

At least one person here understandably didn't get how a flared grommet could cut off airflow when the head has a center pin hole, meaning the air should be getting pulled up through that hole in the pin. Well, the channels cut in the bottom of the head pin seem to pull air in from around the head in the base, and when the head is completely sealed off in the base because of a flared grommet, it's like sucking on a blocked straw.

I have learned with my makeshift silicone grommets to stop screwing on the PT2 as soon as I get a little resistance, then I stabilize it there by using an air flow controller which has a top ring reverse-threaded, so it can wind up and lock itself against the base of the PT2.

And again I'll mention this is not a problem with eGo cone bases, because the airflow design of that base is very different from the PT2 base design, so a little flared silicone won't interfere, though if I crank those thanks down all the way (which I never do, but did to test it), it also blocks most of the airflow. The eGo base is just a lot more forgiving and tolerant than th4e PT2 base, where this specific problem is concerned.

Finally, it really doesn't matter if anyone believes you when you know you're right... they might have a different experience and so can't relate (they might be using the old grommets and just don't get what you're saying),. or they might for some other reason just not run across this as a problem and so have a different theory. It's ok if we don't all agree. We are all of us, just trying to help. If something we say helps another, great... if it doesn't, no harm done and we move on.

Peace, brotha.

 

[Trayce]

I had to look at Zombie's graphic more than once but the overall concept of how airflow works in a PT base is there. And we do know there have been reports on ECF of a totally blocked PT - like sucking on a closed straw. If what Zombie found is true then I have to agree with crxess - there have to be some really bad, out of spec knockoffs out there. On my OEM Kanger coils there just isn't enough exposed center post insulator to cause that kind of a problem - no matter how hard I try to squoosh it.

You are probably using the old rubber grommets which are harder material and don't compress significantly, even with pressure. But new devices are being shipped with the silicone grommets. To compare the material, consider the cup on top of the head stem... that cup is made of silicone.... it is a soft, pliable material. The rubber grommets are harder and stiffer.

So it's true that the only way a rubber grommet could block airflow is if it was WAY out of spec... which is certainly possible, but more likely that people with this problem have the new silicone grommets, (and some don't even know it). So it's like the Tower of Babel where everyone thinks they are talking about the same thing, but they're not.

EDIT: After further reading it appears there might very well be some old rubber grommets that are indeed way out of spec. Probably several suppliers of these to the e-cig makers, and some are in spec, and some are just enough off to cause problems.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

@ Trayce... Well I'm not going to apologize, This stuff really is just common sense and simple mechanical engineering on top of a battery... Yeah yeah I know, w/ some VV & VW chip sets too... but that's a whole different conversation aside from whats going on here, Not that I don't understand it... But it's beside the point and would seem a bit over most of their heads and just lead to more dumb questions, statements and pure confusion.

Guess my point is I made this simple enough for anyone to understand... Or so I thought, I underestimated just how simple some of the crowd was going to be, I just figured being a noob I couldn't talk over their heads... I was wrong!!!

And I am also using the old white hard rubber grommets.

 

[Trayce]

And I am also using the old white hard rubber grommets.

In that case I suspect that as e-cigs have grown in popularity the Chinese manufacturers like Kanger, etc, are being courted by plants over there to supply the various pieces that go into these heads... and it's not unthinkable that one or more suppliers for these grommets are providing 'slightly off-spec' insulators that are just a shade fatter than they should be ... probably going into aftermarket heads as well. Other suppliers might be providing a "closer to spec" insulator... so that it becomes a crap shoot when you buy heads with the old rubber insulators, if they will be in spec or out.

Then on top of this is the new silicone grommet situation... so again I return to the Tower of Babel. Everyone "buying genuine Kanger heads" arguing their own experience.... but when the product has inconsistencies, we can only expect our experiences to also be somewhat inconsistent.

That's the most logical explanation I have anyway.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

In that case I suspect that as e-cigs have grown in popularity the Chinese manufacturers like Kanger, etc, are being courted by plants over there to supply the various pieces that go into these heads... and it's not unthinkable that one or more suppliers for these grommets are providing 'slightly off-spec' insulators that are just a shade fatter than they should be ... probably going into aftermarket heads as well. Other suppliers might be providing a "closer to spec" insulator... so that it becomes a crap shoot when you buy heads with the old rubber insulators, if they will be in spec or out.

Then on top of this is the new silicone grommet situation... so again I return to the Tower of Babel. Everyone "buying genuine Kanger heads" arguing their own experience.... but when the product has inconsistencies, we can only expect our experiences to also be somewhat inconsistent.

That's the most logical explanation I have anyway.

Damn, I knew I liked you, Yes my thoughts exactly... I just didn't wanna go there, it's just simple manufacturing defects and lack of quality control, these heads are in so many different devices that keeping up with demand must be a chore in itself, Not only do they have to keep up with the demand for their own products but the countless others on the market also.

 

[Uno mas]

Moved thread to appropriate sub-forum...

Carry-on

 

[Alter]

I only seem to have the blocked airflow problem with those new insulators and not with the older whitish ones. So your telling me Green Zombie is that all my PV's have over extended pins in them and its causing the airflow blockage. Funny cause since I stopped using those new insulators I have no problems. I'm not about to start arguing about whats right and wrong, but I only said what works for me. The bottom line is that I don't give a guano to who listens, uses, passes on or disagrees with me cause what I post is from my experience and what works in my situation. What I write is my opinion and an opinion is like an azzhole...we all got one. The new silicone insulators might be the new technology but with the protank heads IMO they don't work, yes I sometimes I get the burnt rubber taste and that means there is something wrong with my build and I have to fix it. I have PT heads with 20+ rebuilds of them and I haven't burn't the rubber insulator and some I have burnt, but I'll take the occassional bad build that has a bad taste rather than wonder each and every time I add juice to my protank to weather I'm going to crush the insulator putting it back onto my PV.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

I only seem to have the blocked airflow problem with those new insulators and not with the older whitish ones. So your telling me Green Zombie is that all my PV's have over extended pins in them and its causing the airflow blockage. Funny cause since I stopped using those new insulators I have no problems. I'm not about to start arguing about whats right and wrong, but I only said what works for me. The bottom line is that I don't give a guano to who listens, uses, passes on or disagrees with me cause what I post is from my experience and what works in my situation. What I write is my opinion and an opinion is like an azzhole...we all got one. The new silicone insulators might be the new technology but with the protank heads IMO they don't work, yes I sometimes I get the burnt rubber taste and that means there is something wrong with my build and I have to fix it. I have PT heads with 20+ rebuilds of them and I haven't burn't the rubber insulator and some I have burnt, but I'll take the occassional bad build that has a bad taste rather than wonder each and every time I add juice to my protank to weather I'm going to crush the insulator putting it back onto my PV.

No worries, I can't agree or disagree with you because I have no experience with the silicon grommets, as far as that goes... I have no opinion because like I said I have no experience with that new grommet, Although I do want to try them for the cleaner flavor.

 

[Trayce]

I only seem to have the blocked airflow problem with those new insulators and not with the older whitish ones. [...] The new silicone insulators might be the new technology but with the protank heads IMO they don't work, [...] I'll take the occassional bad build that has a bad taste rather than wonder each and every time I add juice to my protank to weather I'm going to crush the insulator putting it back onto my PV.

In time you might not have a choice, as I imagine the rubber grommets will sell through and only the silicone will be available. But that's probably some time off. And hopefully Kanger will redesign their bases or make some other adjustments to fix this issue. Again, the technology is evolving. In the meantime, unlike you, I would much rather pay closer attn when I install my tank to have rubber-free, non-burny vapor.

I also have to disagree with the bit about only bad builds causing a rubber taste. Some people can taste that rubber regardless. After I replaced my rubber grommets with silicone I could still detect a nuance of rubber in my vape.... then I realized the Vamo's center pin sat on the same rubber grommet used in heads, and when the pin gets hot, rubber fumes go right up the head pin's airhole. So I took apart the Vamo and replaced that rubber grommet with a silicone gasket, and finally, no more nasty rubber notes in my vape. Everyone's sensitivity to taste is different.

And again... to each his (or her) own.

 

[Alter]

But as for speaking generally that nasty rubber taste is due to coil leg(s) getting hot thus burning the top flange if the insulator, its evident in the burn mark on the insulator. The cause could be things like a bent leg or a kink in the wire.
I do agree with the rubber on the PV insulator getting hot and could taste like rubber cause my PT to PV connection gets much hotter faster with microcoils than it does with just regular coils. I don't subohm so I can't say what happens with a coil lower than 1.5 ohms to what it does to the PV insulator.