Innokin Coolfire Z80 w/ Zenith II Tank Kit Full Review - Z-Lee

[AngeNZ]

I'm playing catch up here

I wonder if the 0.3 ohm coil isn't a thinner gauge, and so the vibration is more noticeable than in the 0.8. It doesn't explain why you can't feel it at 20-25 Hz though. I don't know the answer to that - it does seem odd though.

The 0.3Ω z-coil is mesh. The 0.8Ω z-coil is round wire. And it's the same for me, at 20hz with the 0.3Ω z-coil it purrs, which is my equivalent of @Superuser187's vibration Whereas my fused clapton coils don't purr/vibrate at 20hz

Out of the coils above, the only mesh coils are the 0.5Ω Plexus and the 0.3Ω. The 0.48Ω is a plex3d which to me looks similar to mesh. So my guess is these are the only z-coils that will vibrate.

 

[Superuser187]

I'm playing catch up here



The 0.3Ω z-coil is mesh. The 0.8Ω z-coil is round wire. And it's the same for me, at 20hz with the 0.3Ω z-coil it purrs, which is my equivalent of @Superuser187's vibration Whereas my fused clapton coils don't purr/vibrate at 20hz

View attachment 952139

Out of the coils above, the only mesh coils are the 0.5Ω Plexus and the 0.3Ω. The 0.48Ω is a plex3d which to me looks similar to mesh. So my guess is these are the only z-coils that will vibrate.

Yeah i am sure the fact that is mesh makes it purrrrr like that cause the onoy time i felt purr with wire was only on dry burn an 28ga mtl rta setup...

What is wierd to me tho is only get purrrrrr from 70hz or something and more and up to 100hz cause mine doesnt go more than that....
At 20-25 that is my preferred i dont get any purrr or meow

ITS A MYSTERY!!!! *XFILES THEME SONG

 

[AngeNZ]

Also i noticed compared to to other mods this one reads resistances a little higher snd i dont know if thats why but i feel it hits harder....i am not mad ofc lol i just always use a little less wattage than my other mods.

I find this too. In f0 mode, I set my wattage lower.

2) Volts / Ohms = Amps. A higher ohm reading would lead to a lower amp draw, which would mean you could max the amps on the CDR of a battery, and achieve a higher than expected performance in wattage. For example, since this mod is buck boosted, we can expect to draw 4.2 Volts until the battery dies. To make the math simple, let's use a Z80 coil reading of 0.21 ohms. 4.2V / 0.21R = 20A. If the coil is actually a 0.18 Resistance, the Amp output would be 4.2V / 0.18R = 23.33A in a different mod. Since Amps x Volts = Wattage, this would mean you need to lower the wattage in comparison to the Z80, to get that Amp value back down to 20A, if you're using a 20A CDR battery. If you're using a 25A battery, then you're fine. But you're still achieving better battery efficiency with the Z80 than the other mod.

3) Let's say you want to use max watts in the Z80 - 80 watts. 80w / 4.2V = 19.05A (let's round it to 19A). 4.2V / (X)R = 19A. Divide both sides by 4.2V, so 1 / (X)R = 19A / 4.2V. Cross multiply to get rid of the fraction, so 19A * (X)R = 4.2V. Divide both sides by 19A, (X)R = 4.2V / 19A. (X)R = (0.22)R. Any coil used under 0.22 ohms is going to require higher than 19A if you wish to use 80w in the Z80. So the Z80 reads the coil at 0.22 ohms. Let's say the resistance of that coil is read at 0.18 ohms in a different mod. Assuming the other mod is buck boosted or its battery is at full charge, 4.2V / 0.18R = 23.33A. Multiply by 4.2V to get the wattage. 23.33A x 4.2V = 98 watts. The other mod is using 98 watts to achieve the same performance that the Z80 can achieve at 80 watts. So essentially the Z80 is squeezing out an additional 18 watts while capping out at 80 watts. I think the math is all correct here...

Your maths looks fine to me. But when I calculate battery draw for a reg. mod, I usually just:
Max wattage I'm gonna use ÷ 3.2v ÷ 0.9 (mod efficiency)

For the above:
80w ÷ 3.2v = 25a ÷ 0.9 = 27.777a

Am I doing that wrong due to the buck boost of the chip?
I got it from Mooch's blog:
Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Superuser187]

Me while i read this thread

 

[Z-Lee]

I'm playing catch up here



The 0.3Ω z-coil is mesh. The 0.8Ω z-coil is round wire. And it's the same for me, at 20hz with the 0.3Ω z-coil it purrs, which is my equivalent of @Superuser187's vibration Whereas my fused clapton coils don't purr/vibrate at 20hz

View attachment 952139

Out of the coils above, the only mesh coils are the 0.5Ω Plexus and the 0.3Ω. The 0.48Ω is a plex3d which to me looks similar to mesh. So my guess is these are the only z-coils that will vibrate.

There's a discrepancy here though - the only coil I've used in the Z80 so far is the 0.8 ohm coil, and I can hear the palpitations at 20-25 Hz. Hmmm. More X-Files music I guess.

 

[Z-Lee]

Your maths looks fine to me. But when I calculate battery draw for a reg. mod, I usually just:
Max wattage I'm gonna use ÷ 3.2v ÷ 0.9 (mod efficiency)

Nah, you're factoring in efficiency which I didn't do as I think the ratio of that is likely fairly similar in most mods. .85 to low 0.90ish I'm guessing. In my head, it makes me want to multiply by the efficiency rating though, or divide it by the inefficiency %, but in reverse that would be correct. You'd need 27.77A from the battery to achieve 25A with an efficiency rating of 0.9.

3.2V would be used for a non-buck boosted mod, and to stay on the safer side of the amp draw calculations.

Am I doing that wrong due to the buck boost of the chip?

Yeah, buck boost is going to (I'm pretty sure) supplement the battery drain to keep the mod upwards of 4.2V. I keep flipping the Z80 back into wattage mode to check what the amp draw is, and currently at a battery level of about 10-15%, it's still drawing 4.2V.

 

[AngeNZ]

Nah, you're factoring in efficiency which I didn't do as I think the ratio of that is likely fairly similar in most mods. .85 to low 0.90ish I'm guessing. In my head, it makes me want to multiply by the efficiency rating though, or divide it by the inefficiency %, but in reverse that would be correct. You'd need 27.77A from the battery to achieve 25A with an efficiency rating of 0.9.

3.2V would be used for a non-buck boosted mod, and to stay on the safer side of the amp draw calculations.

Yeah, buck boost is going to (I'm pretty sure) supplement the battery drain to keep the mod upwards of 4.2V. I keep flipping the Z80 back into wattage mode to check what the amp draw is, and currently at a battery level of about 10-15%, it's still drawing 4.2V.

I'm even lazier, for single battery mods (non-buck boosted) I usually just multiply the CDR x 3 or divide the wattage by 3.

Back on to the z80: I ordered my second. I'm gonna try a 0.8 coil in the Zenith II and I'll report back if it purrs. It better, or I will feel short-changed

 

[Z-Lee]

I'm even lazier, for single battery mods (non-buck boosted) I usually just multiply the CDR x 3 or divide the wattage by 3.

Back on to the z80: I ordered my second. I'm gonna try a 0.8 coil in the Zenith II and I'll report back if it purrs. It better, or I will feel short-changed

Well, dividing the wattage by 3 is lower than 3.2, so that's even more on the safe side, lol.

That purr do be schmexy.

 

[AngeNZ]

I very very very briefly tried the 0.8ohm coil in the Zenith II at 18.5watts and 25hz.

It purred! Kitten purr, not cat purr. But a result nonetheless. I then replaced it with a 0.3ohm and my two Zenith IIs are happy campers.

My questions:
Does this only apply to z-coils?
Has someone tried another drop-in coil tank at 25hz to test this?
Why doesn't my puny 2.5mm id ni80, 6 wrap 30*2/40 coil also purr at 25hz?!!!

 

[Z-Lee]

It purred! Kitten purr, not cat purr. But a result nonetheless. I then replaced it with a 0.3ohm and my two Zenith IIs are happy campers.

Yeah, it's definitely a kitten purr, lol.

Does this only apply to z-coils?
Has someone tried another drop-in coil tank at 25hz to test this?

I am not sure. I asked Demitris in the last giveaway and he responded with "Really just depends on resistance and setting". I've tried several tanks both RTA/RDTA and drop in, and haven't found one yet that purrs. I thought in doing some digging, I might find some differences in the wire used, but all of the Z-coils use kanthal which several of my RTAs and drop ins also use. So, it could come down to the gauge in wire that's being used assuming it isn't mesh. But this information would become inconclusive based on the information you shared above with the 0.3 ohm mesh Z-coil also vibrating.

Superuser did report that one of his rebuildables purred when dry burned w/out a wick. So it's possible, just hard to tell what conditions need to be met.

 

[Z-Lee]

Why doesn't my puny 2.5mm id ni80, 6 wrap 30*2/40 coil also purr at 25hz?!!!

Did you try dry firing this by chance?

 

[Superuser187]

I very very very briefly tried the 0.8ohm coil in the Zenith II at 18.5watts and 25hz.

It purred! Kitten purr, not cat purr. But a result nonetheless. I then replaced it with a 0.3ohm and my two Zenith IIs are happy campers.

My questions:
Does this only apply to z-coils?
Has someone tried another drop-in coil tank at 25hz to test this?
Why doesn't my puny 2.5mm id ni80, 6 wrap 30*2/40 coil also purr at 25hz?!!!

I had no purr with any of rtas mesh or coil i tried and only on dry burning an mtl 28ga round wire at high hz i could feel lots of vibration and sound purr

I dont have a hugeeee vape device collection but...
For sure tho to me seems i get better flavour with every atty i tried and i am not a fan of any manufacturer so it is not affecting my judgement...also since its a bit overpowered compared to my other mods i always dial a bit lower wattage so its a fair comparison...

I am looking forward for a 21700 with fourier for my higer wattage vapes....there is a kroma z 21700 that will come and i hope has a nice 510adapter and i think i heard for another 21700? I guess this fourier will be in all mods from innokin now so gonna nice

For some reason anything other than 25-30hz just lose flavour to me...
Tried 3*30/38 setups 3*28/38 and 2*26/32 on fused clapton builds simple wire 28 and 24 spaced and contact builds on single mtl rda and dl double coil attys

i think that simple thinner round wires and mesh will purr more easily but it has something to do with the tighness of the cotton to the coil and the mass of coil....
just what i think so far ofc

I dont get any purr with 0.8ohm coil on zenith on any hz setting...only mesh could purr and on high hz....wierd...

 

[Z-Lee]

The pulsing isn't always as prevalent when I'm vaping as it is when I just fire the mod. Even at 20 Hz, it's a very quick and subtle purr. This is with the 0.8 ohm coil.
CooFire Z80 F(0) @20Hz

 

[AngeNZ]

Did you try dry firing this by chance?

Yup, purely to see if I could visibly notice any difference when dry firing a coil in f0 mode - compared to DC wattage. I wasn't listening for any difference, but I will next rewick.

I dont have a hugeeee vape device collection but...
For sure tho to me seems i get better flavour with every atty i tried and i am not a fan of any manufacturer so it is not affecting my judgement...also since its a bit overpowered compared to my other mods i always dial a bit lower wattage so its a fair comparison...

I am looking forward for a 21700 with fourier for my higer wattage vapes....there is a kroma z 21700 that will come and i hope has a nice 510adapter and i think i heard for another 21700? I guess this fourier will be in all mods from innokin now so gonna nice

I agree completely about the flavour boost in f0 mode. And I'd love to see a 21700 mod come out with this technology.

Whatever the lil genie in the f0 chip is doing, I love it.

 

[Z-Lee]

Yup, purely to see if I could visibly notice any difference when dry firing a coil in f0 mode - compared to DC wattage. I wasn't listening for any difference, but I will next rewick.

Every rewick from here on out, I will do it on the Z80 just to see if I can hear anything now, lol.

I agree completely about the flavour boost in f0 mode. And I'd love to see a 21700 mod come out with this technology.

Don't talk about a 217, you're getting me all excited.

Whatever the lil genie in the f0 chip is doing, I love it.

You gotta rub it the right way I guess, lol.