IMR batteries: AW and "unbranded?"

[deach]

Given that test I think both batteries did pretty well. Even under that video he states the following

Please understand we do not consider ANY battery "safe"

Reconfirms what I said in my post above. One must be knowledgable of the device things they're using in them.

We routinely use Lithium batteries daily and very few think about it. Cell phones, laptops, various other devices use that technology. Most and again I say MOST....happen due to user negligence and mis-use. I am aware people have been injured doing absolutely nothing wrong and a battery just failing. Or some folks only use the cheapest things they can get their hands on.

I've read right here on this forum some people charge these batteries only outside in metal pans and such...Honestly, should you really put anything up by your face you're drawing high current out of (right at the limit) and such if you have to talk those precautions just to charge them? Sounds wrong to me. Yes I use both protected and IMR's....Yes I have AW and generic. I charge them in the house in a charger I've personally checked. ANY electronic device can fail. Most likely it will not be at a convenient time. If I honestly had to charge the things outside in a metal pan I'd NEVER put that device anywhere near my face. (or in this case the things that power it).....

What it comes down to is you have to decide. You have to educate yourself and do the research. What applies to you, may not apply to me. Your vaping habits may not be the same as mine. It all comes down to what you think any risk is worth. (kind of like driving to work every morning).

Regards,
Deach

 

[tj99959]

, especially for unregulated PVs bc they provide a more consistant voltage for longer as the battery drains, which will give a more consistant vape than a regular battery.

That really isn't the case. The real reason for IMR popularity is their ability to provide the amperage necessary to use LR atties on a REO Mini.
Good that the REO folks found a bat that works well in their mods. Safe chemestry also has it's place because we use these devices next to our face. While an IMR can still go into thermal runaway and will vent, they won't explode. However the charts show that there are plenty of bats out there that have just as flat (or flatter) discharge curve.

 

[mwa102464]

yzer this comparison may also be a good reference = 18650 battery test 2011

I believe there are also some other chart comparisons floating around which do compare the AW IMR vs other IMR Batts, BDL, MNKE, MNKE is also another well built IMR I've been using them for some time now check out there C rating when ya get a chance.

I also believe that the ECF so highly recommends the AW IMR and AW in general is because of there safety history, I dont think there has ever been an accident with AW Batts in a PV, that's not saying there never could be but I dont recall a thermal runaway happening with an AW ever in a PV, so just the safety record alone would make the AW get a recommendation, let alone there super spec's after Panasonic Batts the true leader in the Batt world.

 

[Str8V8ping]

I'd still like to see some comparative data. I'm not an engineer, so a graphic illustration of AW IMRs against IMRs from other sources would be helpful.

Im not understanding why you wouldnt want to go with a trusted name like AW . They are super cheap as is so whats the point in taking a guess of a cheaper or no name battery . 8.00 for the best 18650 battery is a steal .

 

[yzer]

I'm sold on the AW IMRs.

Thanks to all for the additional information and that great video of the short circuit test.

The problem is I can't seem to find the right size for my E-Power 14650s. Doesn't look like AW offers an IMR 14650. Folks here on ECF have tried IMR 14650s by BDL and COV and don't seem that impressed.

The protected Smoktech and Trustfire Blue Li-ion 14650s I use measure 69mm in length which is the dead maximum length my YL-103A chargers will accept.

Looking at Alibaba I see only one Chinese supplier for IMR 14650. That's Shenzhen Fest Technology and it's not clear if they are a manufacturer or trader of the battery.

 

[yzer]

The remaining question I have regards the advice to not let AW IMRs discharge to less than 3.5V. Would that mean I would have less vaping time on the AW IMR than the protected Li-ions? I can run them down to less than 3.4 volts on the E-Power with LR cartos. I'll have to check, but I may have run some of these Li-ion batteries below 3.3V before the E-Power 14650 quit.

 

[Mudflap]

The remaining question I have regards the advice to not let AW IMRs discharge to less than 3.5V. Would that mean I would have less vaping time on the AW IMR than the protected Li-ions? I can run them down to less than 3.4 volts on the E-Power with LR cartos. I'll have to check, but I may have run of these Li-ions below 3.3V before the E-Power 14650 quit.

Yes, the vape time will be shorter.

 

[deach]

What batteries are you using now in your device? Are you having problems with them? I see everyone else talking 18650 and you're saying 14650. Which brand? Protected? Thanks...

 

[yzer]

I use Smoktech labeled and Trustfire Blue 14650s. No problems with them at all but I am interested in upgrading to IMR for safety reasons. The protected Li-ions are rated 1050mAh and run my E-Power for about a day and a half before needing a recharge. No complaints about them at all except for their length. Both brands measure 69mm which is the longest length my chargers can handle. Interestingly, most protected Li-ion 18650s measure 67mm.

I mentioned the 18650 battery in these posts as an example size for comparison purposes. 18650 is a much more common size for batteries than 14650. Most tests of Li-ion and IMR batteries use the 18650 size for comparison purposes.

 

[deach]

Right and while I agree with the 18650's being more commonly being used for tests, the batteries you need are not used as often. Food for thought....if it ain't broke don't fix it. I don't think you'll gain any safety mileage going to IMR's. If you want to go up a notch in quality go to the true branded black and red trustfires. I can tell you that in real life tests (mine) they do last a bit longer and also will trip out when needed.

For instance, if I stick a 1.25 ohm dual coil in my 5 v box, it trips the protected batteries....it will NOT trip the IMR's. Now then, there's really no reason to use that carto in my box but I wanted to test it. Personally although I use both, I do still feel a bit better with the "protected" batteries in there.

Regards,
Deach

 

[deach]

OK...yes I agree the 18650's seem more commonly used in vaping from what I've read. I use both protected and the IMR's in my box. (5v) Recent testing shows a 1.25 ohm carto will trip the protected batteries (nearing a dead short). The IMR's obviously keep going but as I hold my hand on them I can feel warmth starting to build a little. Personally I'd feel better with proven protected batteries if I was not having problems with them. Also you do get a little longer life out of the protected ones with the (in my case) higher MAH ratings in the protected Batteries.

Of course in the end it is YOU that must decide which batteries to use from the information you have. (and you've tried to get here). This Battery safety issue can be confusing at times and everyone always out for "more power" isn't helping. Technology has come a long way in the ratings of these things from the early days. Still has obviously a long way to go till a 100 % SAFE battery comes along.

Regards,
Deach

 

[yzer]

deach, thanks for the great advice. The electronics on my E-Power 14650 will not allow use of cartos or attys of less than 1.5 ohms so 1.25 ohms is not a possibility for me, yet.

I have looked for Trustfire protected 14650s in the red and black or "flames" wrapper without success. The best Trustfire I can find in 14650 seems to be the Blues.

 

[deach]

OK, man that's something a quick search of all the usual battery ordering places didn't yield anything to me either. I'll keep looking however. Although I do use some IMR's, to me this equates to a circuit breaker in a house. Do you want it to vent and keep getting hot (albeit not blow up) or totally kick out. I "personally" would rather have it kick out if the device I have it in is up by my face. Any of these devices can develop an internal problem at any time. All of us (including me) tend to take this to the ultimate and want more power, longer life, etc etc. While I do understand this train of thought perfectly I'd rather change/charge a battery along the way and stay safer. Just my .02, everyone else's mileage may vary. Happy Vaping.

Deach

 

[yzer]

That's kind of the way I figure it too. If a protected Li-ion was subjected to the same external short circuit test shown in the video in post #20 not much would happen. A protected battery Li-ion battery probably would not heat up as much as the IMRs. Yes, yes, that's assuming the protection circuit works... but I haven't seen enough reports of failed Li-ion protection circuits to believe that this is a considerable issue. OTOH, if the same test was performed on an unprotected Li-ion battery the result would be spectacular, and not in a good way.

For external short circuit protection I'd rather have a protected battery.

The AW IMR voltage drop under load is impressive. It still suffers from voltage drop that stresses a battery but not to the same degree as the other batteries tested.

As far as vaping time goes I prefer the protected Li-ion batteries. They have higher capacity ratings and can be discharged to less than 3.5V.

The choice for me is either the best protected Li-ion battery (ICR) I can find or a "generic" IMR since AW doesn't produce an IMR 14650. I will consider the AW protected 14670 Li-ion (it should fit both my pv and my chargers) but I'm not convinced that it would perform any better or be any more safe than other highly ranked protected Li-ions that cost considerably less.

So, I'm going to stick with my protected Li-ion batteries for now. They do the job, safely so far. When it comes time to replace them I'll revisit the IMR and ICR choices again.