Horchata Base Flavor (TFA) - What to mix with?

[Taledus]

I ordered 2 horchata because I have seen many posts about how good it is, but honestly did not know that it was a drink, what it tasted like, or what it smelled like. When I opened it up and smelled it I don't think it is something I want to try by itself, and wanted to get advice on what to mix with that I currently have. If nothing that I have is a good mixer, what should be good to get to mix with it?

Ordered 2x of each:
*Black Cherry Flavor (TFA)
*Cappuccino Flavor (TFA)
Coffee Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
*Creme de Menthe Flavor (TFA)
Espresso Flavor (TFA)
*Orange Cream Flavor (TFA)
RY4 Type-1 Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
*Kalua & Cream Flavor Concentrate (TFA)
*Strawberries & Cream Flavor (TFA)

Asterisks are ones I planned on trying by themselves.

All of the recipes I have found that include horchata contain other custard note flavors. I posted a blog, link in my sig, of flavors that do not contain custard notes. Unfortunately all the really good sounding flavors contain trace amounts of custard note chemicals. Until I can do more research into how bad the trace amounts actually affect users, I'd prefer to stick with ones listed in the green at this time.

That being said, I am kicking myself in the .... for not ordering a few flavors to try, mainly the mocha

 

[HeadInClouds]

That Horchata Base tastes like pure spices to me, no milk or cream. That probably explains the lack of 'custard notes' ingredients. TFA sells a flavor called Horchata Smooth that I've never tried, but it might be closer to a full horchata flavor (I haven't checked ingredients on it, though).

The best creams I've used are from FlavourArt. They're all free of the custard ingredients. Adding 1.5%-2% of FA Fresh Cream with TFA's Horchata Base makes an authentic horchata. I like it better with creamier flavor and more vanilla, so I actually prefer about 1% FA Vienna Cream instead. Of course you could use a little of each. If you haven't guessed, FA are very strong flavorings, so it takes only a tiny bit.

With the flavors you already have, adding a little Horchata Base to Kahlua and Cream is probably the best you could do. It sure wouldn't be a horchata, but it might be tasty anyway.

 

[kabalm18]

I bought some TFA Horchata based on some reviews and it was disgusting!

 

[Taledus]

Alright, I made a small test batch, 5% kahlua/1% horchata, and the spicy smell of the horchata was way too overwhelming. I added more kahlua to 9%, and more pg/vg, which put the horchata at 0.1%, and the taste of the horchata was still too overpowering where I could not even tell kahlua was in there.

This was my first actual DIY batch, and I was careful to watch how much of everything I was putting in, also using ejuice Me Up for all the calculations. Eventually I just dumped and made a 10% batch of kahlua...probably could have went to 15% though.

 

[glasseye]

I didn't have horchata base, guess it was just regular but it went nicely with juicy peach.

 

[Taledus]

I didn't have horchata base, guess it was just regular but it went nicely with juicy peach.

On the TFA site there is Horchata and Horchata smooth. I am guessing that horchata and horchata base are the same...I ordered mine from WizardLabs and all they have on there is the horchata base.

I'm not really a huge fan of peach flavors in general by themselves, but what was your ratios for mixing the juicy peach and horchata together?

 

[glasseye]

Here is a recipe from Uno Mas that I tweaked a bit since cinnamon is too strong for me. The post is #9 Ithink. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-liquid-recipes/406661-peachy-glee.html
I wouldn't go over 2% in any case even with just juicy peach. So maybe 8 or 9% JP and 2% horchata. You can always add more.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Duplicate post...

 

[LoveVanilla]

FYI, this Horchata contains coumarin. Personally, containing flavors have been retired. As background, coumarin was banned from food in 1954 by the FDA and from cigarettes in 1985. Seems fairly well accepted that coumarin is a hepatoxin and possible carcinogen. I am completely unqualified to say if any level might be "safe.”

TFA flavors that contain are Almond Amaretto, Bavarian Cream, Black Honey, Coconut Candy, Holiday Spice, Horchata, Irish Cream, Mocha, Pralines and Cream, Red Velvet Cake, Toasted Almond, Waffle (Belgian). The heaviest concentration (over >10%) is Horchata.

Also noticed all of the above have developed a distinctive reddish hue after mixing with VG and aging 3-4 weeks. Did not notice in flavors (though refrigerated) and nicotine does not seem to effect. Darkness of the hue seems to correspond to concentration (e.g. red in Horchata and light pink in Black Honey Tobacco). Check your juices or samples to see what I mean.

The reddish hue might be a useful marker for detecting coumarin in any juice or flavor. And why, though untested, Horchata Smooth appears coumarin free and RY4 Asian contains.

BTW, this list excludes containing flavors.

 

[cramptholomew]

I use it at 8%. Try it at a high percentage.

 

[Taledus]

FYI, this Horchata contains coumarin. Personally, containing flavors have been retired. As background, coumarin was banned from food in 1954 by the FDA and from cigarettes in 1985. Seems fairly well accepted that coumarin is a hepatoxin and possible carcinogen. I am completely unqualified to say if any level might be "safe.”

TFA flavors that contain are Almond Amaretto, Bavarian Cream, Black Honey, Coconut Candy, Holiday Spice, Horchata, Irish Cream, Mocha, Pralines and Cream, Red Velvet Cake, Toasted Almond, Waffle (Belgian). The heaviest concentration (over >10%) is Horchata.

Also noticed all of the above have developed a distinctive reddish hue after mixing with VG and aging 3-4 weeks. Did not notice in flavors (though refrigerated) and nicotine does not seem to effect. Darkness of the hue seems to correspond to concentration (e.g. red in Horchata and light pink in Black Honey Tobacco). Check your juices or samples to see what I mean.

The reddish hue might be a useful marker for detecting coumarin in any juice or flavor. And why, though untested, Horchata Smooth appears coumarin free and RY4 Asian contains.

BTW, this list excludes containing flavors.

...?!?!?

First there was the Diactyl warnings, then came Acetoin and Acetyl propionyl threads. At this time I have not ordered certain flavors just to avoid those 2 chemicals until I can research them better...but as I said in the original post I am kicking myself in the ..... However, even though I am not a proponent either way I still made a list for TFA flavorings that either have or may contain traces of these 2 chemicals, link in my sig...

Now you're saying to avoid Coumarin. Next it will be to avoid VG. Don't forget the fumes from the rubber pieces in the coils from dry-burning. Also, don't vape gasoline. Vaping remaining water after cleaning a tank can break down the hydrogen causing people to grow a 3rd arm.

...

@ cramptholomew - Thanks! I have nothing else to use this for so instead of letting it go to waste I think I will give it a go.

 

[AmandaD]

FYI, this Horchata contains coumarin. Personally, containing flavors have been retired. As background, coumarin was banned from food in 1954 by the FDA and from cigarettes in 1985. Seems fairly well accepted that coumarin is a hepatoxin and possible carcinogen. I am completely unqualified to say if any level might be "safe.”

TFA flavors that contain are Almond Amaretto, Bavarian Cream, Black Honey, Coconut Candy, Holiday Spice, Horchata, Irish Cream, Mocha, Pralines and Cream, Red Velvet Cake, Toasted Almond, Waffle (Belgian). The heaviest concentration (over >10%) is Horchata.


BTW, this list excludes containing flavors.

I'm really surprised that TPA sells something banned by the FDA for use in food. Are you absolutely sure about this? This company has been very forthright about ingredients they use, even going so far as to list suspect ingredients right on their webpage.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I'm really surprised that TPA sells something banned by the FDA for use in food. Are you absolutely sure about this? This company has been very forthright about ingredients they use, even going so far as to list suspect ingredients right on their webpage.

Yes, listed component.

Reading indicates coumarin is often found in artificial vanilla substitutes, typically derived from the tonka bean, and in cassia cinnamon (Cinnamomum cassia), not to be confused with true cinnamon (Ceylon cinnamon). While coumarin has "sweet odor, readily recognised as the scent of new-mown hay, and has been used in perfumes since 1882", I suspect it's more likely a contaminant from cassia cinnamon in the Horchata flavor. Notice the newer Horchata Smooth has reduced cinnamon taste and visually appears coumarin free.

We all make our own choices, but "safer than cigarettes" isn't okay for me. I also choose to avoid ingredients of known, significant harm. And hope no one is offended by the sharing of facts.

Once again, TFA has my trust, kudos, and business for making such decisions possible.

 

[AmandaD]

Thanks for the link! But, if the FDA banned coumarin for use in food, I don't understand why TFA would use it in their flavorings? Or is it about the percentage?

 

[CreepyLady]

Coumarin is unlikely to be of any danger to humans. It was banned due to its effect on rats and is used in pharmaceuticals like Warfarin (and it is used to treat cancer and to treat the side effects caused by radiotherapy). There is a lot of way more current research on it. At the time it was banned from "food additives" (it is naturally in a lot of food- like strawberries, ground cinnamon, apricots, cherries and it is allowed to exist in anything it is naturally in) it was considered potentially dangerous at a dose of 275 mg and higher (based upon the amount that rats reacted to then calculated to match human weight).

http://dcu.ie/biotechnology/abg/pdf...erapeutic_Role_in_the_Treatment_of_Cancer.pdf

TOXICOLOGY
Since 1954, coumarin has been classified as a toxic
substance by the FDA, following reports of its possible liver
tumour-producing properties in rats [28]. The FDA banned
its use, labelling as adulterated all foods containing coumarin
[12]. Due to tests performed on rodents coumarin was
referred to as a chemical carcinogen by NIOSH [National
Institute for Occupational Safety and Health]. However,
caution needs to be taken in extrapolating this information to
human situations. Various tests (Ames, micronucleus) have
shown that coumarin and its metabolites are non-mutagenic
[6]. Preliminary results from early studies indicated that
coumarin was a toxin, but it has been shown since, that the
rat is a poor model to compare with the human for this
particular metabolism [29]

(ETA - not looking to debate here - but if you want to present facts its only fair to include *current* medical research on humans)

Also - OP I would think it would be wonderful with peaches or blueberries maybe add some TFA pie crust to make it sort of a crumble!

 

[Taledus]

Thanks LoveVanilla for making this another anti-coumarin thread...if you don't like it, don't use it. I ordered it, and paid for it.

Screw this, I am going to go back to smoking!

 

[CreepyLady]

Thanks LoveVanilla for making this another anti-coumarin thread...if you don't like it, don't use it. I ordered it, and paid for it.

Screw this, I am going to go back to smoking!

Dont go back to smoking

Hopefully the current research will help folks make their own informed decisions - for me - I eat things with coumarin daily, so im not so worried.

As for your horchata flavor - I got a lovely idea, do you have/like coconut flavors? I would imagine it could also go well with coconut and tfa vanilla cupcake

 

[stylemaster2001]

I have a "Peachy Horchata" recipe that I first tried smaller, and then mixed a 60 ml batch. I personally LOVE the taste horchata puts in anything fruity, so...ymmv

Juicy peach 7%
Cantalope 7%
Rasberry 1%
Horchata 4%
Sweet Cream 1%

All flavors TFA. I started out with a recipe off of ejuicemeup calculator and then "modified" it to my preferences....it's really good, to me. Let me know if you try it!!!

 

[LoveVanilla]

Thanks for the link! But, if the FDA banned coumarin for use in food, I don't understand why TFA would use it in their flavorings? Or is it about the percentage?

Don't believe it was intentional; and until the GC analysis nobody knew (except the guy upstream who sold TFA's supplier inexpensive cinnamom that was actually Cinnamomum cassia). All hypothetical, of course.

Apparently there's is an ongoing issue in the flavoring industry where Cinnamomum cassia keeps getting into the food chain -- no doubt driven by profits and greed. Indeed Europe recently issued health warnings about eating too many cinnamon buns.

Also read somewhere TFA's analysis was at 98% versus FDA's 95% purity. So flavors with low percentages were likely not detected previously. Whether upstream suppliers intentionally diluted (i.e. for profit) is only conjecture e.g. 1% of a very large number is still a large number.

Of course, our lungs are significantly less protected and protective than our stomachs.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Thanks LoveVanilla for making this another anti-coumarin thread...if you don't like it, don't use it. I ordered it, and paid for it.

Screw this, I am going to go back to smoking!

"another anti-coumarin thread" Are there others?

And -- no, no, no! That is not a wise choice! I'll .... out but think we should all push for a product that is as safe as current knowledge. Cheers!