Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?

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Tekn0ph1sh

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I Compiled a list of Clearstream Tested flavors from Flavourart that show minimal signs of cytotoxicity to living cells. Nothing is 100% YMMV but I am moving towards DYI because at least I can research my suppliers and have the choice of what I choose to put in my juice and the concentrations of said flavorings. Flavourart also has their own line of ejuice called Heaven which have a few additional flavors. I listed all of them in another post in the DYI section if you are interested. I would assume that they will be the next ones tested but who knows. Looks like the majority are tobacco blends and a few fruit and nut options but they are continuing to add flavors as they are tested.

Tuscan
Black Fire
Reggae Night
Layton
Ozone
Kiwi
Green Tea
Almond
Cinnamon
Cigar Passion
Perique
Maxx blend
7 leaves foglie
Hypnotic mist
Strawberry
Virginia
Hazelnut
Shade
Classic Vanilla
Burley
Apple
Licorice
Chocolate
RY4
Caffe (Coffee) - Should the highest amount of cytoxicity but still a lot less than a cig.
 

Tekn0ph1sh

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On another note. If VG goes over 280C there is a CHANCE that it will degrade into Acetoin. The boiling point of 100% VG is 290C. Adding distilled water lowers the boiling point significantly reducing the chance of it getting too hot and VG in the water attracts moisture to it anyways so the chance of getting 100% VG is very slim anyways. But if you accidently let you atty go dry and start burning your juice you could be exposing yourself to acetoin and various other nasties you are trying to avoid. Just saying the chemicals are present in the base materials your are vaping and CAN come out just by adding heat. The more educated you are about vaping the better you can minimize the harm it may cause.
 

we2rcool

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I Compiled a list of Clearstream Tested flavors from Flavourart that show minimal signs of cytotoxicity to living cells. Nothing is 100% YMMV but I am moving towards DYI because at least I can research my suppliers and have the choice of what I choose to put in my juice and the concentrations of said flavorings. Flavourart also has their own line of ejuice called Heaven which have a few additional flavors. I listed all of them in another post in the DYI section if you are interested. I would assume that they will be the next ones tested but who knows. Looks like the majority are tobacco blends and a few fruit and nut options but they are continuing to add flavors as they are tested.

Tuscan
Black Fire
Reggae Night
Layton
Ozone
Kiwi
Green Tea
Almond
Cinnamon
Cigar Passion
Perique
Maxx blend
7 leaves foglie
Hypnotic mist
Strawberry
Virginia
Hazelnut
Shade
Classic Vanilla
Burley
Apple
Licorice
Chocolate
RY4
Caffe (Coffee) - Should the highest amount of cytoxicity but still a lot less than a cig.

'Appreciate the list! - thank you!

'Don't want to start a huge debate here (and we're not trying to discredit FA in any way) - but we do want to point out...

There are nearly 50 different/distinct cells in the lungs & bronchia (a VERY good overview on the anatomy & physiology of the lungs Anatomy, development, and physiology of the lungs : GI Motility online)...and they each are dependent on a myriad of factors within the lungs (and outside the lungs) for their health & function. ClearStream testing tests one type of cell (mammalian fibroblasts) in vitro (which literally means "in glass" - many times referred to as a "test tube" or "petri dish" test).

So while the tests tell us how one type of lung cell reacts to the specific vapor blend when the cells are outside of body, well, that's all it really tells us :( And just like in this study (that vapers typically assume "proves" that e-vapor is safer than cig smoke http://www.gwern.net/docs/nicotine/2013-romagna.pdf)...we see this very integral sentence at the end of the 'results section': These results should be validated by clinical studies. (as in, studies inside real lungs).

Again, we're not trying to discredit was is being done by ClearStream. These tests are valid and offer good information...but they are not conclusive, as they do not show what happens in actual lungs - and wethinks this is very important for people to know.

Because, (of course!) absolutely no in vitro test is proof of what will actually happen inside the body - and all researchers know this.
 

tyjames

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What I gathered from this is you cant really trust what your vaping unless specifically noted by the manufacturer that it does not include the 3 bad guys.. and maybe not them but vendors should get a straight answer from them and state that on the product details page in my opinion rather than say it behind an email or have us gamble or guess that is dont because its not a type of flavor that would normally use diacetyl. Remember its ecig flavor Vendors that are being irresponsible here, offering questionable flavors. just for starters.. there will have to be ongoing research to make a "as safe as possible" flavor for vaping. Which as we've pointed out they have no obligation to do so.. BUT doing so would no doubt get positive attention and earn trust which would earn business.. So its in their best interest to do research because we as consumers are not ignorant or careless. Seems like the vast majority of flavors being sold by vendors of FA for example are ones that are from the Kitchen line, not the Heaven vape. In fact, theres so few flavors offered by the Heaven line it just makes me wonder why they dont list other flavors.. Because they still need testing? Its annoying to think that I would have to stick to just those flavors just to be on the safe side. We all want to vape something we like in terms of flavor.

It was explained that what you vape goes directly into your blood stream and bypasses metabolism and your liver.. your liver is the most important organ you have capable of flitering an incredible amount of toxins.. So having something GRAS for food comsumption is only because your liver is so good at what it does. (Yet on the other hand its actually quite surprising we can smoke a pack a day for years and not die outright.. so there is something to be said about our bodies ability to handle toxins regardless if inhaled or ingested.)

After reading this entire thread I don't even feel like testing my mixes that I spent many hours and dollars to make because I just don't know what I have here. It is True that I feel more clear headed when vaping unflavored. What we need is a list of flavors that has been Proven not to include harmful chemicals, and by harmful I dont mean outright bad for you but the potential is still there. Its best to be safe than sorry. And Ill take proof in the form of having companies state the particular flavor does not include those chemicals on the product details page. That is something if wrong they can be sued for.

BTW I dont really trust FW.. they don't look very professional to me.
 
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we2rcool

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What I gathered from this is you cant really trust what your vaping unless specifically noted by the manufacturer that it does not include the 3 bad guys.. and maybe not them but vendors should get a straight answer from them and state that on the product details page in my opinion rather than say it behind an email or have us gamble or guess that is dont because its not a type of flavor that would normally use diacetyl. Remember its ecig flavor Vendors that are being irresponsible here, offering questionable flavors. just for starters.. there will have to be ongoing research to make a "as safe as possible" flavor for vaping. Which as we've pointed out they have no obligation to do so.. BUT doing so would no doubt get positive attention and earn trust which would earn business.. So its in their best interest to do research because we as consumers are not ignorant or careless. Seems like the vast majority of flavors being sold by vendors of FA for example are ones that are from the Kitchen line, not the Heaven vape. In fact, theres so few flavors offered by the Heaven line it just makes me wonder why they dont list other flavors.. Because they still need testing? Its annoying to think that I would have to stick to just those flavors just to be on the safe side. We all want to vape something we like in terms of flavor.

It was explained that what you vape goes directly into your blood stream and bypasses metabolism and your liver.. your liver is the most important organ you have capable of flitering an incredible amount of toxins.. So having something GRAS for food comsumption is only because your liver is so good at what it does. (Yet on the other hand its actually quite surprising we can smoke a pack a day for years and not die outright.. so there is something to be said about our bodies ability to handle toxins regardless if inhaled or ingested.)

After reading this entire thread I don't even feel like testing my mixes that I spent many hours and dollars to make because I just don't know what I have here. It is True that I feel more clear headed when vaping unflavored. What we need is a list of flavors that has been Proven not to include harmful chemicals, and by harmful I dont mean outright bad for you but the potential is still there. Its best to be safe than sorry. And Ill take proof in the form of having companies state the particular flavor does not include those chemicals on the product details page. That is something if wrong they can be sued for.

BTW I dont really trust FW.. they don't look very professional to me.

Wethinks you'll definitely want to check out this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...1-acetyl-pyrazine-diacetyl-acetoine-help.html ...as FW flavors (mixed into e-juices) have been tested by two Canadian e-liquid companies, and found to contain outrageously high levels of diacetyl or acetyl propionyl.
 

we2rcool

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Anyone notice some of the TFA descriptions and their MSDSs not matching up? That is, look at the description for marshmallow. Says it contains custard ingredients. Then pull the MSDS - no mention of any custard ingredient.

Maybe I'm just overlooking it?


Yes, we've noticed that. From what we've read, TFA is in the midst of testing, retesting, and updating the information on their site. The inconsistencies certainly are frustrating. Yet we're still grateful there's at least one company (other than FA) that's going to the time, effort & expense to ensure that all vapers have a chance to know what's in their flavors so that we can make an informed choice.

Here's a list we'd started the first week in April. The asterisk means that both acetyl propionyl AND acetoin are present in the flavor. We managed to get the actual percentages on the flavors containing only acetyl propionyl, and how much acetoin was in the flavors that have 'both'...but when we went back to fill in the blanks for the ones with acetoin only, the data was no longer available.

PRODUCTS WITH CAS # 600-14-6 : Acetylpropionyl

Apple (Tart Granny Smith) Flavor * < 1%
Boysenberry Flavor * < .5%
Butter Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Butterscotch Flavor * < .5%
Caramel (Original) Flavor * < 1%
Caramel Candy Flavor * < .5%
Caramel Cappuccino Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Cheesecake Flavor < .5%
Cinnamon Danish Flavor * < .5%
Cinnamon Sugar Cookie < .5%
Coconut Candy * < 1%
Dairy/Milk Flavor * < .5%
Dulce de Leche Flavor * < .5%
Elderberry Flavor * < .5%
English Toffee Flavor * < .5%
French Vanilla Deluxe Flavor * < .5%
Gingerbread Cookie * < .5%
Gingerbread Flavor * < .5%
Graham Cracker Clear * < .5%
Graham Cracker Flavor * < .5%
Hazelnut Flavor * < .5%
Hazelnut Praline Flavor * < .5%
Huckleberry Flavor * < .5%
Maple Syrup Flavor < .5%
Marshmallow Flavor * < .5%
Mocha Flavor * < .5%
Molasses Flavor * < .5%
Peanut Butter Flavor * < .5%
Pralines and Cream Flavor will be replaced with Acetoin < .5%
Red Velvet Cake Flavor * < .5%
Tiramisu Flavor * < .5%
Toasted Marshmallow Flavor < .5%
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Flavor >= 1% and < 10%
Vanilla Cupcake * < .5%
Vanilla Custard Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Waffle (Belgian) Flavor * < .5%

PRODUCTS WITH CAS # 513-86-0 : Acetoin

Almond Amaretto Flavor
Apple (Tart Granny Smith) Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Banana Cream Flavor
Bavarian Cream Flavor
Bittersweet Chocolate Flavor
Boysenberry Flavor * < .5%
Butter Flavor * >= 10%
Butterscotch Flavor * < 1%
Caramel (Original) Flavor * < .5%
Caramel Candy Flavor * < .5%
Caramel Cappuccino Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Cinnamon Danish Flavor * < 1%
Coconut Extra Flavor
Coconut Flavor
Coffee (Kona) Flavor
Dairy/Milk Flavor * < .5%
Dulce de Leche Flavor * < .5%
Elderberry Flavor * < .5%
English Toffee Flavor * < .5%
French Vanilla Deluxe Flavor * < 1%
Gingerbread Cookie * < .5%
Gingerbread Flavor * < .5%
Graham Cracker Clear * < .5%
Graham Cracker Flavor * < .5%
Hazelnut Flavor * < .5%
Hazelnut Praline Flavor * < .5%
Huckleberry Flavor * < .5%
Irish Cream Flavor
Jamaican Rum Flavor
Marshmallow Flavor * < .5%
Mocha Flavor * < .5%
Molasses Flavor * < .5%
Nectarine Flavor
Peach Flavor
Peanut Butter Flavor * < .5%
Pecan Flavor
Pie Crust Flavor
Pumpkin Spice Flavor
Red Velvet Cake Flavor * < .5%
Sweet Cream Flavor
Tiramisu Flavor * < .5%
Vanilla Cupcake * < .5%
Vanilla Custard Flavor * >= 1% and < 10%
Waffle (Belgian) Flavor * < .5%
White Chocolate Flavor

Update! 'just went back to TFA - 'did a bunch of 'clicking around' on the List items, and finally scored direct hits on them both. Here's the direct links to the search results:

Flavors containing acetoin ( CAS# 513-86-0 )
Perfumer's Apprentice acetoin

And here's a direct link/search for flavors with acetylpropionyl ( CAS# 600-14-6 )
Perfumer's Apprentice acetylpropionyl

If you want to find the last updated percentages on each flavor, click on the word: List (to the far right of each listed flavor), then right click, and choose "view page source". By scrolling down through the coding, you'll eventually find what is hidden (not yet updated?) by the table at the bottom of each page. I'll start updating my list above tomorrow.

'Hope this helps :)

Vape Safe!
 

downInTn

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I wrote a little python script to scrape the website > pastebin com/W6ScBK1R it depends on bs4 library so you'll need that if you want to run it. Here are my results -

Almond Amaretto Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Apple (Tart Granny Smith) Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < 1%
Acetoin: >= 1% and < 10%

Banana Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: >= 1% and < 10%

Bavarian Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Bittersweet Chocolate Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Boysenberry Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Butter Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: >= 1% and < 10%
Acetoin: >= 10%

Butterscotch Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < 1%

Caramel (Original) Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < 1%
Acetoin: < .5%

Caramel Candy Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Caramel Cappuccino Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: >= 1% and < 10%
Acetoin: >= 1% and < 10%

Cinnamon Danish Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < 1%

Coconut Candy Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: <1%
Acetoin: <.1%

Coconut Extra Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Coconut Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Coffee (Kona) Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Coffee Flavor Extra (Clear)
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Dairy/Milk Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Dulce de Leche Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Elderberry Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

English Toffee Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

French Vanilla Deluxe Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < 1%

Gingerbread Cookie
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < 1%

Gingerbread Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Graham Cracker Clear
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Graham Cracker Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Hazelnut Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Hazelnut Praline Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Huckleberry Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Irish Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Jamaican Rum Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Marshmallow Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Mocha Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Molasses Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Nectarine Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Peach Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Peanut Butter Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Pecan Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Pie Crust Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Pumpkin Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < .5%

Red Velvet Cake Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Sweet Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: < 1%

Tiramisu Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Vanilla Cupcake
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

Vanilla Custard Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: >= 1% and < 10%
Acetoin: >= 1% and < 10%

Waffle (Belgian) Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: < .5%

White Chocolate Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Not Listed
Acetoin: >= 1% and < 10%

Cheesecake Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: Not Listed

Cinnamon Sugar Cookie
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: Not Listed

Maple Syrup Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: Not Listed

Pralines and Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: Listed As True
Acetoin: Not Listed

Toasted Marshmallow Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: < .5%
Acetoin: Not Listed

Vanilla Bean Ice Cream Flavor
Acetyl Propionyl: >= 1% and < 10%
Acetoin: Not Listed
 

Pictor

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All I can say is that vanilla flavoured cartridges gave me problems within a few weeks of stopping smoking, and that was long before I knew anything about this issue.
It got worse when I started using liquids to refill clearomisers, and anything custard/vanilla gives me a problem as do a few of the fruit ones.

It's not a problem to ignore either - it makes me painfully short of breath and my throat closes!
Add that to an intolerance of high levels of PG and I've had my wings clipped a bit - still, it won't send me back to cigarettes! I'll just avoid anything that irritates my lungs.
 

Mowgli

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I spent a little time at FW's website and checked which of my flavors have "all flavors are diactyly free!" removed from their respective order page:

Absinthe
Banana
Blackberry
Blueberry
Butter Pecan
Butter Toffee
Butterscotch
Captain Crunch
Cheesecake
Cinnamon Churro
Cinnamon Roll
Dutch Apple Pie
Eggnog
English Toffee
Graham Cracker
Grape
Hazelnut
Mango
Maple Pecan
Orange Dream Bar
Pralines & Cream
Strawberry
Sugar Cookie
Sweet Cream
Teaberry
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
Vanilla Butternut
Watermelon

Some make sense that the removal corresponds to concern but some don't

Strawberry has it removed but Strawberry Kiwi doesn't
I don't see how Absinthe, Grape, Strawberry, Mango, Blueberry, Blackberry, Teaberry, Banana and a few others could be related to butter, vanilla or custard

Some others such as Whipped Cream, that I'd expect to be related still state "D Free!" on their pages

Apparently checking the page for the claim isn't a reliable method to find what they're concerned about.

bummer
 
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sahsah

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I recently found this out also and personally I've chosen to switch to unflavored juice. Yes it's sad and I'm really going to miss all the delicious flavors out there but I'd much rather vape safe than end up needing a lung transplant in 10 years. I realize this post will not be a popular one, & I don't want to turn this into a debate or get political but to me it's just common sense. The truth is nobody knows the effects this will have on our lungs in 5-10 years, the information available regarding Diacetyl inhalation and the other 4 or 5 harmful Alpha-Diketones is enough to scare me away.

Unfortunately when reputable vendors say their juice or flavoring is "diacetyl or diketone free" they are in no place to promise that. This is a substance that occurs NATURALLY in all of the above foods. So what they're really saying is, there wasn't any additional diacteyl or diketones added. What most people don't realize is you're getting it anyway. When more long term studies are published we will know more but for now, I simply know too much to just look the other way.
Seriously? Why not just ask a few of your favorite vendors if any of their juices contain diacetyl and be done with the over-worrying and paranoia based over cautioning? For instance tasty vapor was asked this very question and emphatically and self assuredly went into great detail about how none of his many juices carry any form of diacetyl. I believe there's a whole post about it on ecf. Check it out, because I'm sure vaping flavorless e liquid isn't very enjoyable. In fact, without all of the magical flavors that vaping offers I doubt most of us would have been able to make the switch over from analogues, my self included 100%
 

we2rcool

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Seriously? Why not just ask a few of your favorite vendors if any of their juices contain diacetyl and be done with the over-worrying and paranoia based over cautioning? For instance tasty vapor was asked this very question and emphatically and self assuredly went into great detail about how none of his many juices carry any form of diacetyl. I believe there's a whole post about it on ecf. Check it out, because I'm sure vaping flavorless e liquid isn't very enjoyable. In fact, without all of the magical flavors that vaping offers I doubt most of us would have been able to make the switch over from analogues, my self included 100%

Check out this thread, and you'll find how far you can trust vendors http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/543911-acetyl-proprionyl-diacetyl-acetoine-help.html How about claims of "diacetyl free", but mixed juices testing at around 1,000,000 to 1,797,000ppb...when the NIOSH recommended exposure limits are 8-31ppb?

There are countless reports of flavorings with these diketones (on ECF and all over the 'net), causing airway irritation. That may add up to "over-worrying and paranoia based over cautioning" to you (and you certainly have the right to believe & state whatever you'd like), but "direct inhalation of diacetyl/diketone laced juice causing airway irritation" adds up to something far more concerning to many other vapers.
 
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