Why Vaping won't ever convert the masses (of smokers)

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sofarsogood

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Here's the thing.

You'll flame me. You'll say TL;DR...

But there's a number of points I need to get off my chest...

I love vaping, by the way. I still have the occasional analog (crazy term but still). I've recently got into sub-ohm vaping because:

1. My ....ty ego batts and clearomisers were just, well, crap.
2. I 'accidentally' bought a Kanger Subox Mini

So as you see, I never planned for subohm, I just got a box mod as basically a better vaping device, as someone who might upgrade from a Ford Focus to a BMW 3 series.

Then problems started occurring, which made me realize that for all the bad longevity of the ego, they were, at least, maintenance-free. Now I was trying to fix leaks, taking pieces apart, re-wicking coils. I needed to set aside a mini workshop in my home just for the maintenance. To the forums, I thought. Surely no-one else has to put in this much effort just to vape, right?

Wrong. You all do, but more surprisingly, you all seem to love it. Rather like if you drive a car, as most of us do, but have little technical knowledge about it, and how we occasionally venture to a car forum. You'll often hear people saying "oh it's the rear axle manifold, but it's easy to do yourself. You just blah, blah, blah". Fine if you have the time, an empty garage, etc, etc. Fine if you love fixing up cars, right.

But with smoking, I never 'loved' smoking, not the concept at least. I just had to smoke. I didn't go around with paraphanlia dedicated to smoking, prosletyzing ways of keeping tobacco fresher or going to smoking conventions. I just smoked. Now of course 'some' smokers are like this, but the majority aren't.

Vaping, sadly, is a steep learning curve for the non-initiated, and whereas I expect most of you to disagree with me, I feel there is a silent majority who may stumble across boards like this, read diagrams of how to convert pi's theorum of fibonacci numbers so you get the right balance between 'balancing your ohms' and causing the device to blow a hole in your face (more on that in a bit), that I bet most people who have lives, but who happen to smoke in them, just think, "erm... okay. I think I'll stick with smoking then".

When I tell friends that I've managed to give up, but talk about RBAs and introducing liquid into Japanese Cotton through a dropper, they glaze over and say "wow, you must really love vaping then". Thing is I don't. I wanted something to replace regular cigarettes, not a 24/7 craft hobby.

My fear is, even though most of you will vehemently defend your love of tinkering, eternally pursuing that perfect 'hit', I am right in saying that a lot of people will just find it too much effort, that even a working piece of kit will fail after a few weeks unless you learn about maintenance, cleaning and a lot of stuff I could do without.

Then there's the whole safety thing...

I preached for months to friends (and even strangers) that were smokers and non-smokers alike, telling them there was this new thing that allowed you to feel like you were smoking but was PERFECTLY SAFE. There were a lot of nay-sayers, let me tell you, but I won through for the most part in that I argued that however bad these eliquids could be, could they really be worse than the contents of a real cigarette (or analog, w/e)?

Unfortunately it was never the liquid we should have feared. It was the hardware.

The fundamental problem with all e-cigarettes, the ones that 'do the job' correctly, the flaw that will always be the thorn in it's size.

...is China.

You may call me racist, I have nothing against the Chinese. But let's put the cards on the table. They aren't known globally for their standards. You read stories every day about people dying over there, or being horrifically injured by machinery that has failed or gone awry due to their poor (or non-existant) safety standards.

All the box mods, it appears, without exception (please someone tell me I'm wrong. PLEASE!) are made in China.

So then I was on another forum, or maybe it was this one, I don't know, and someone posted a list of e-cigarette accidents...

Now bear in mind this isn't like "singed an eyebrow" type ..... This is like scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, scrolling through events and then realizing you are still in April 2016, casually looking at the scroll bar on the right, not being able to see it, then seeing a pixel-wide line, still close to the top of the screen.

But not all these incidents are bad, right? For this list to be so long. Right?

Kinda. It reads sorta like.

1. 3rd degree burns on leg, scarred for life
2. 3rd degree burns on arm, scarred for life
3. Entire front teeth blown out, scarred for life.

Ah but that's not too bad right

4. Child loses eye while staff DEMONSTRATE an ecig to him at a mall.

HE'S NOT EVEN BOUGHT THE ....ING THING YET!

Aha, but before you rebut, I already know what you're going to say. It will echo the comments that usually follow news stories like this.

"Ah yeah but I bet he was using a calibrated mechanical with a dripper with a non-compatible 510 without calculating his ohm resistance using pythagoras' equation of Lancelot's Diversion and failed to think about the solar flare activity that day. ....ing noob."

Yeah he probably was. ....ing noob is right. In fact is there another hobby that people can just wander into, with so many self-proclaimed experts, that can be so cruel to the uninitiated? Failing DIY base-jumping, that is?

The point I'm trying to make is if vaping now is so fraught with potential danger, and it's necessary to have a certain amount (oh, who are we kidding, quite a reasonable amount) of knowledge about the subject, what not to do, etc, then how can it hope to attract smokers that weren't tobacco-fetishists, you know, the normal, everyday people who just happened to smoke.

I mean I used to enjoy smoking most when I was drunk. Now I can't dare vape if I'm drunk. What if I need to change a coil mid-way? Well not too much, as I have that 'reasonable' degree of knowledge. But what about first-timers? Maybe those bomb disposal outfits that armies have should come with?

But the worst thing has to be the elitism I've found amongst the most hard-core vapers on forums. They will offer no sympathy to the uninitiated, and resent people who just want to get on with things without any effort (you know, like regular smoking) and try to either tell them they should invest more of their time to achieve what used to be so simple, and then shunning said questioner if they point out that they don't have the time, the willpower, etc.

Oh yeah, when I bought my Subox, the site in question said on the order page "this doesn't come with a battery... it needs THIS battery... would you like to buy THIS battery from us as well as the boxmod?"

I said "sure, why not". It came. I charged it. I used it. Then there was a product recall about two weeks later. "Buy this one from us" they now said. "okay, I said".

They sent me an E Fest 18650. You know, the kind that are now generally known as being slightly more stable than carrying around a pack of C4 in a bag full of hammers...

So yeah, had to become an expert in batteries now too. Just so I could scour forums, spend hours on search engines trying to find which battery wouldn't take a limb from me, or knock a six inch hole into my neighbor's house. No really. I'm loving this new hobby.

In fact I'm looking forward to the next part. Maybe my tanks are leaking because they're plastic? .... it, lemme learn glass blowing and I'll make my own Pyrex ones. Ultimately there'll be no time for anything but this, I may as well quit my job.

Or, as new initiates will find, simply go back to smoking...
It sounds like you're having a panic attack, cigarettes are calling out to you. You raise too many issues but one stands out, Chinese products. I work in an industrial automation build shop. We do machining, welding, building, electrical and have in house designers. I'm looking at machined parts all day every day. The build quaity of the chinese vaping hardware I buy is generally excellent and considering the price it is amazing.

I'm a free trader at heart. The age of empires is over because trading is more profitable than conquest Let everybody make and sell what they are good at. Nations have to draw some lines in the sand for national security, strategic materials, energy, food supply, etc. but after that let the market sort things about.

I believe vaping will crush smoking, end the Tobacco Age. It will do that because of the price advantage. I'm getting a quality vape for less money than the cheapest quality cigarettes available in any nation ($10 a carton in Cambodia) All our dear governments need to do is shut up and .... out.
 

skoony

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Nahhh.... all that we need is the FDA to standardize the base,
IMHO the FDA need do nothing. The industry,courts and us will work this all out
just fine with out them and, at no cost to the taxpayer.
And they are too lazy to bother with learning battery safety...
There may be as you say some lazy people. It is my observation that the majority of
vapers almost all of whom do not visit e-cig forums are not lazy. They are busy living
their lives. Working to make ends meat. Raising chillin'.Volunteering. Checking up on
grandma. Chauffeuring the kids to practice. Paying bills. They know about battery
safety. They learned it by using their cell phones,portable game payers,MP3's,all
the way back to the walkman. Since car batteries became maintenance free battery
issues have faded from the general public's radar until recently with these e-cig incidents.
Your average buyer of mods today is not the average buyer of mods of a few years
ago. Back then the state of the industry was still in a developmental stage. Makers,
vendors and buyers all participated and shared their knowledge. Most everyone
was on the same page and understood and was aware of all the nuances involved
when using a mod.
Today mods are just another consumer good. Newer buyers are unaware of the
history and development of the product they are buying and quite frankly do not care.
Put the battery in the box or tube. Fill the tank with juice. Put it up to your lips.
Press the button and inhale. What could possibly go wrong?
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 

Vaslovik

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There may be as you say some lazy people. It is my observation that the majority of
vapers almost all of whom do not visit e-cig forums are not lazy. They are busy living
their lives. Working to make ends meat. Raising chillin'.Volunteering. Checking up on
grandma. Chauffeuring the kids to practice. Paying bills....

I'm busy doing all that too, but I learned battery safety when I got my first mech. To say that today's mods are just another consumer good, casually used is only to make excuses for those who the bad things happen to. That they do not care I will agree with. Sadly not caring can cost you a lot.
 
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skoony

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I'm busy doing all that too, but I learned battery safety when I got my first mech. To say that today's mods are just another consumer good, casually used is only to make excuses for those who the bad things happen to. That they do not care I will agree with. Sadly not caring can cost you a lot.
They are just another consumer good. 30 to 50 % off,on sale at a lot of B&M's around
here. Get em' while there hot.
I am not making excuses. I'm just pointing out there are a lot of reasons we are
seeing what appears an increased amount of these type of accidents. Laziness
is not close to being the number one reason. It's on the list somewhere but there are
other reasons. The number one reason being the attitude of the purchaser. You can tell
them about safety all you want. they don't want to hear it or,ignore it. They have got
a pretty good bead on things,don't you know. Why would they be concerned? Their Bic
lighters never exploded. Well there was that one time in the woods with the campfire
and all that. That's besides the point.
:2c:
Regards
Mike
 

Lessifer

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The main problem is that the dangers of batteries is not common knowledge.
That will be rectified over time as more people suffer severe injuries.
Right, it probably should be common knowledge, and may have at one time been common knowledge, but it doesn't seem to be very common now. I didn't know much, if anything, about batteries when I started vaping.

We do live in a world where people need to be reminded not to use their hair dryers in the bathtub. I've also seen pictures of people setting up things so they can use their laptops/watch Netflix while in the tub. Foolproof is an oxymoron.
 

BreSha6869

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This "hobby" can get messy, time consuming and fairly technical. I personally ain't the brightest and within a month of vaping I was making my own juice and coils and fully understood all of my gear and how to use it properly. Not that difficult.

For those who don't want to spend the time or just don't care, that's what Vuse, Juul and Blu are for.

Laziness is no excuse to not stop smoking and start vaping IMO.
 
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rico942

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I used to buy analogs in the hard pack, and really hated it when the little flaps on the cover would come unglued and stick out ... :mad:

The soft packs were even worse, when the cellophane wrapper would fall off ... :-x

Nothing more frustrating than a nearly full BIC lighter with a busted flint ... :censored:

Never happens anymore with my vape ... :D
 

BillW50

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I believe vaping will crush smoking, end the Tobacco Age. It will do that because of the price advantage. I'm getting a quality vape for less money than the cheapest quality cigarettes available in any nation ($10 a carton in Cambodia) All our dear governments need to do is shut up and .... out.
Wow! How do you vape equivalent of 2000 smokes for just 10 bucks? I spent about $250 a month for the first 6 months on vaping. Hell one of my favorite juices is 50 bucks per 120ml and that only last a month while I mostly vape the cheap 15 buck per 120ml for most of the day.
 

beckdg

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Wow! How do you vape equivalent of 2000 smokes for just 10 bucks? I spent about $250 a month for the first 6 months on vaping. Hell one of my favorite juices is 50 bucks per 120ml and that only last a month while I mostly vape the cheap 15 buck per 120ml for most of the day.
Not difficult.

Tapatyped
 

beckdg

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Not for me it isn't. Even at 18mg of nicotine, it is hard for me to get enough.
@ 50mg, my joose DIY still comes in @ around $6/120ml.

$10/10 carton equivalent doesn't seem very off, if at all.

May be a bit exaggerated after running the numbers. But likely not as ridiculous as one might think.

Tapatyped
 

GeorgeS

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    Wow! How do you vape equivalent of 2000 smokes for just 10 bucks? I spent about $250 a month for the first 6 months on vaping. Hell one of my favorite juices is 50 bucks per 120ml and that only last a month while I mostly vape the cheap 15 buck per 120ml for most of the day.

    Easy:
    51sOlf4w5lL._SY450_.jpg

    1QT = 946.353mL, $10.93

    (120ml of 100mg nicotine base)
    $15.99

    (to keep it simple, with a target mix of 12mg, the nicotine is good for 10 120mL bottles or 1200mL of juice. If we buy 2x bottles of VG then total cost (without shipping) comes to approx $22+$16=$38 for 1200mL of unflavored juice. ($0.03 per mL))

    If you wind your own coils and mix your own juice Vaping offers a compelling cost advantage to smoking. However many of us are questioning how much effort john/jane-q-public is willing to expend on vaping.

    While there is surely a portion of the population that is willing to spend more on healthier items I don't believe this is the 'norm' and most would rather save a few bucks on a less healthy item.

    To reach the masses:
    • batteries/mods need to be at least as safe as Cell phones
    • the atomizers need to be less fiddly and more reliable
    • maintaining a cost advantage (after taxes) would help

    IMHO/YMMV.
     
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