Why pay hundereds of dollars for a disposable DNA mod?

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Credo

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The popularity of those very expensive dna mods with permanent batteries confuses me. Without a user exchangeable battery, these mods are pretty much disposable. Not only that, when you run out of power you can't simply swap the battery and keep going, you have to wait for it to charge. I can see using a permanent battery in a device costing under $50, but for the sometimes well over $200, I don't get it. The permanent battery seems to be a big step backwards, and contradictory to one of the big selling points of going with a mod in the first place. Why are these "mods" so popular?

Relax...someday we'll all be walking around with induction charged LiPo like packs in all our 'stuff'. Such packs will not need to be removed, and they'll charge themselves and automatically bill you (or even allow you to opt in and sell your unused mah to others) as you interact in the world. Some folks will invest early in greener tech in hopes that it'll help speed up, or at least encourage the more logical progression of technology evolution. In short...producing millions of little metal wrapped cells that only last 400 charge cycles and are pretty messy/expensive to dispose of or recycle is NOT the best that humanity can do. Chargers are also a factor...these day's it's certainly possible to integrate charging circuits into every battery powered device and still use less Earth resources than having separate bulky charger units with drawers full of hard wrapped cells in every consumer's home.

Money is imaginary, and theoretically infinite in abundance. The Earth's natural resources on the other hand, have some pretty hard limits (or at least very long and costly cycles to convert things into the next 'usable' state). The battery tech that ultimately wins out will depend on lots of factors...like production/energy cost, environmental impact, safety, and of course consumer choices.

The cool thing about Evolv boards is that they are currently the Arduino like system of the Americas for building your own vaping device. It's just a platform in which you can envision and build all sorts of mods around. The 'battery type' and charging system is up to you!

Why do people pay $200 or more for such a thing already shaped into a useable device?
Because they want one :)

It's true, you could build one yourself for a good bit less than $200 in terms of parts costs, but if you're making it by hand, or ordering up a prototype from a company that builds them for you, there will also be a considerable investment in time and tools (if you don't already have them). So....if you're not set up to tinker with electronics and/or machining/modeling...$200 may well be a bargain.

As supply catches up with demand...you'll see prices go down some, and you'll also see more 'choices' out there for DNA configurations. You'll also see more new models, tools, and kits come out as the platform 'Evolv's.

When I get done with mine, it'll be induction charged (no need to plug in anything...just set it near an induction pad) and all solid state. It won't have any 'buttons' (these days you can get low cost pre-programmed capacitive touch ICs for about the same price as a good quality mechanical button). The DNA board itself will be less than $60 shipped and mounted. I'll probably give myself a choice of battery boxes just to experiment and see which one I like the best. In the long run however...I'd like it to be the best balance between performance, consumer cost, and 'green' minded. Yes, I expect to have lots of problems with it...but the long range goal is to make it all work with LESS physical materials and greater efficiency in the 'total energy consumption' equation of the device's entire lifespan (from production to all the days it get used, to junking/recycling).

To 'me', this is the whole point of the DNA series. It's a starter platform to inspire people out there to try different approaches and platforms for the vaping community....a pre-programmed controller chip all ready to go. Developing and programming your own board like this would cost months of research and wouldn't be exactly 'cheap' to prototype on your own. Yes...you could get an IC programmer's kit and do your own circuit and custom tweak your design to suit your needs...but there's no way you could do it in such a small and neat package for less than $50 as an individual or small company.

Give it time...if you don't want a DNA that uses LiPo, you'll certainly be able to get one that uses what ever batteries and switches you might prefer. If it's still too expensive for you...that's OK too...there will be plenty of last year's tech to buy for much cheaper.
 
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caged

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It's the same argument that occurred when cell phones and MP3 players started being made with non-user replaceable batteries. Everyone saw it as a harbinger of the apocalypse. Of course no one mentioned that most people actually get new stuff long before the battery breathes it's final breath.

It's still a valid argument. I am not going to pay a lot of money for a phone that I can not change the battery in or install an SD card or other form of removable memory. And no, an external drive does not cut it (I don't want to physically carry around yet another device).
 

Credo

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It's still a valid argument. I am not going to pay a lot of money for a phone that I can not change the battery in or install an SD card or other form of removable memory. And no, an external drive does not cut it (I don't want to physically carry around yet another device).

The bigger picture is that sooner or later, it'll be less expensive, and beneficial to all mankind to just give people 10 times what they'll ever need or use up front in terms of 'hardware'. Commerce will commence in terms of software and other types of hardware exchange...but when it comes to semi-conductors and energy related technologies...the world is trying to go increasingly green. For what it cost in terms of energy, materials, manpower, etc...just to make the plastic chassis of an SD chip or a hard shelled battery case....along with all its 'packaging/shipping/etc', the industry could just go ahead and give you quite a few gigabytes more memory on the die, or mah of power in a battery in the first place. For what it costs to make a single battery charging unit (I.E. for 3.7v 18mm rechargeable batteries) industry theoretically can make thousands of charger ICs and build them right into devices.

Yes, in the short term, it could cut into some immediate profits or current economic and business models...so it will not happen over night. It'll take some time for prices and availability of raw materials to make it actually more 'profitable' to think green..but it's coming.

It'll be some years yet before the world gets there...but the trends are obvious enough to show that 'thinking green' is a long range goal of engineers around the globe.
 
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caged

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The bigger picture is that sooner or later, it'll be less expensive, and beneficial to all mankind to just give people 10 times what they'll ever need or use up front in terms of 'hardware'. Commerce will commence in terms of software and other types of hardware exchange...but when it comes to semi-conductors and energy related technologies...the world is trying to go increasingly green. For what it cost in terms of energy, materials, manpower, etc...just to make the plastic chassis of an SD chip or a hard shelled battery case....along with all its 'packaging/shipping/etc', the industry could just go ahead and give you quite a few gigabytes more memory on the die, or mah of power in a battery in the first place. For what it costs to make a single battery charging unit (I.E. for 3.7v 18mm rechargeable batteries) industry theoretically can make thousands of charger ICs and build them right into devices.

Yes, in the short term, it could cut into some immediate profits or current economic and business models...so it will not happen over night. It'll take some time for prices and availability of raw materials to make it actually more 'profitable' to think green..but it's coming.

It'll be some years yet before the world gets there...but the trends are obvious enough to show that 'thinking green' is a long range goal of engineers around the globe.

I do not think companies are doing this for the environment. The marketing departments get excited over built in batteries and forgoing the SD slot because they can shave a hair widths thickness off the phone and claim they are being green to their customers. The bean counters get excited because they can save a few pennies on each device while encouraging people to pay fees for their cloud storage. Cell companies get excited because people will pay for more data. The user gets screwed.
 

TheoGR

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Well, a friend of mine made a dna 30 mod with a customized box which takes 2 18650 batteries and they can be taken out. I am using 2 18650 Sony Konyos and I can either charge them with the micro usb cable or take them out and charge them with my intellicharger.
So I don't know what you are talking about :D
 

caged

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Well, a friend of mine made a dna 30 mod with a customized box which takes 2 18650 batteries and they can be taken out. I am using 2 18650 Sony Konyos and I can either charge them with the micro usb cable or take them out and charge them with my intellicharger.
So I don't know what you are talking about :D

I'm talking about those DNA devices that require tools to change the battery. I don't get them at all. DNA devices that offer a user replaceable battery as a "feature" (it seems really strange that user replaceable batteries have become a feature) are fine.
 

p.opus

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Well, a friend of mine made a dna 30 mod with a customized box which takes 2 18650 batteries and they can be taken out. I am using 2 18650 Sony Konyos and I can either charge them with the micro usb cable or take them out and charge them with my intellicharger.
So I don't know what you are talking about :D

We're not talking about one off's here.

Were talking about mods that are being marketed and sold in significant numbers. The question was asked why people were paying for these mods with "non-user" replaceable batteries.

For the most point it is due to the fact that a lot of Mod manufacturers don't want to have to deal with people trying to return their mods because they reversed the polarity of their battery and thus fried the DNA chip.

Granted a user of a DNA should KNOW better, but that would not stop them from trying to pull one over on the mod manufacturer.

Recently a member here asked for options on what to do after she inadvertently caused her VV3 to take a drink in a cup of water. Many of the respondents told her to just "return the item" even though the device was not defective.

For having the integrity to own up to her responsibility, several here bought the individual a ProVari instead. It was one of the coolest things to see here, but also one of the most disturbing.

The number of people who were willing to stick it to the manufacturer was astounding.

Armed with that type of knowledge, you either add physical reverse battery protection, or you hardwire your battery....
 

nightfell

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The only manufacture that I feel will most likely always be around or will be around for a long time is provape.

I have a zna because I feel zen will still be around to support it if I need something repaired.

I have a VS DNA 30 because I know vaporshark has been around for at least the last 2-3 years. So for me I feel when the time comes that I need the battery replaced vapor shark will be there for me.

I almost went with a Hana mini for the same reason, so far they look like they're gonna stick around.

And if not, I know people that can replace the battery for me.
 

Credo

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I do not think companies are doing this for the environment. The marketing departments get excited over built in batteries and forgoing the SD slot because they can shave a hair widths thickness off the phone and claim they are being green to their customers. The bean counters get excited because they can save a few pennies on each device while encouraging people to pay fees for their cloud storage. Cell companies get excited because people will pay for more data. The user gets screwed.

It's true that "Companies" in and of themselves are generally thinking about short term profits, but there are indeed long range goals that come from both companies and outside influences.

Today, there is some truth in your analogy, but there is also truth in mine. With population growth, fast growing economies, and dwindling energy supplies relative to these other spikes, it becomes obvious that the 'green movement' is more than just greedy bean counters.

If you can make a 3000 mah 20 amp 1,300 cycle LiPo pack with less production energy/materials than a 16000 mah 20 amp 350 cycle IMR cylinder, using metals and salts that are easier to extract from a source close to production...that will ultimately be more 'profitable' for everyone. If you can drop thousands of tiny charging circuits on PCBs using less energy and material than making a single two cell 18mm cylinder charger....then you can divert those funds into some other segment of the economy (software, financing, employee benefits, or whatever).

Case in point...
There is a finite amount of gold on the planet. It's very expensive to dig up, and causes all kinds of damage to get at it. Meanwhile, the population grows, as does the number of 'dollars' floating around to decide who gets his grubby hands on what resource, for how long, and for what purpose. This is why it takes a lot MORE dollars to buy an ounce of gold in 2014 than it did in 1914.

Case in point...
People said the same thing (bean counters just want to rip off consumers) about the shift from things like ATA, SCSI, RS232, and parallel strobing systems in our computers. Those technologies took MASSIVE amounts of copper (or some other 'wire') to do what we can now do with a fraction of the materials with things like SATA and USB. They also needed 5v - 12v, and higher amperages to get a signal across a few feet of cable. Now we can do the same with less than 3v...have 'longer' cables, and get faster transfers to boot! Even better...we can now do almost as good 'wirelessly' for hundreds of machines using similar amounts of power to what it recently took to run only a single desk-top PC...but all of that took years of FCC, ANSI, ISO, etc. encouragement and planning.

Humans consume exponentially more energy today than we did 10 years ago, and a LARGE chunk of that energy is simply wasted due to laws of conversion and general inefficiencies. Here lately, each generation of technology incorporates better material and energy management as a top design factor.

Sneeze at green thinking, but sooner or later it's going to catch up with us...like it or not...we don't have much choice. The alternative is to 'thin the population', ban or reduce the development of alot of important technologies, or somehow keep much of the world excluded from the grid...in the dark ages.
 
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ZeroOhm

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The Vaporshark battery if you can get one (UK) is so cheap $2-3 a soldering iron and you are done, but having ordered a VS back in January now to be told it might be end of April I am done with it. I will get a box mod that takes 650s and using USB charging you arent messing with the batteries and risk inserting them the wrong way round.
 

caged

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So the SX200 chip in my Sigelei 20w has reverse battery protection. From all reviews I've seen so far, this new generation of Chinese chips is every bit as good as the DNA 20. I do not buy Evolves explanation that they could not add this safety feature in order to properly read the battery and can only conclude it was either an over site or a cost cutting move. Either way, it was a boneheaded move.
 
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