Why pay hundereds of dollars for a disposable DNA mod?

[beckdg]

ROTFLOL -- I took your post and p.opus reply as saying you don't throw them away, and no one should have to....maybe it was the punctuation....

well...

that's only logical. where's my coffee.

if that's the case, i'm extremely sorry, p.opus.

SMH i'm an idiot at times. excuse me while i go check myself out.

 

[p.opus]

well...

that's only logical. where's my coffee.

if that's the case, i'm extremely sorry, p.opus.

SMH i'm an idiot at times. excuse me while i go check myself out.

Exactly. If you open up a dna and you see a standard 18650 in there with leads soldered to the battery, you don't throw out the whole mod. First of all, you know exactly what replacement battery to get, and soldering the leads onto the terminals can't be that hard.

In an MVP, it's a little different. The LiPo pouch is very generic and there is not a lot of information printed on them.. I need much more knowledge looking at the LiPo pouch and trying to find an after market equivalent.

Again, not hard (google is your friend), but not as easy as opening up the chassis and seeing an AW IMR 18650 staring you in the face.

 

[caged]

Exactly. If you open up a DNA and you see a standard 18650 in there with leads soldered to the battery, you don't throw out the whole mod. First of all, you know exactly what replacement battery to get, and soldering the leads onto the terminals can't be that hard.

In an MVP, it's a little different. The LiPo pouch is very generic and there is not a lot of information printed on them.. I need much more knowledge looking at the LiPo pouch and trying to find an after market equivalent.

Again, not hard (google is your friend), but not as easy as opening up the chassis and seeing an AW IMR 18650 staring you in the face.

Not hard is a relative term. Compared to swapping out a battery on a typical mod, it's 1000 times harder at least. I'm certainly not going to solder in a new battery when it looses power at the end of the day and I still want to use the device during the night. And you have to pay a ton of money for the privilege of not being able to use the device when you want. I don't get that. Fact is, most people are not going to rip their DNA device apart to change the battery themselves. Some may send it in to the manufacturer or a third party to have the battery replaced, but that an unnecessary PIA with unnecessary costs, not to mention the time wasted.

For the MVP, why can't you just take a volt meter to see what the battery is putting out? I don't see someone who is capable of taking a device apart and soldering a new battery in not being capable of running a few tests on a battery or the built in charger.

 

[beckdg]

p.opus; with a little knowledge and understanding, even that's pretty simple. for example, the manufacturer tells you the specifics of the battery. 2600mah capacity, 20c discharge rate from a single cell. this relates directly to a 3.7v nominal, 5.2A 2600mah pack. then all you need to know is the physical size... which you would measure with calipers. then start at hobbyking and fastech and search the web until you find single lipo cells that match your specs.

if you can solder, you're probably good to go.

Not hard is a relative term. Compared to swapping out a battery on a typical mod, it's 1000 times harder at least. I'm certainly not going to solder in a new battery when it looses power at the end of the day and I still want to use the device during the night. And you have to pay a ton of money for the privilege of not being able to use the device when you want. I don't get that. Fact is, most people are not going to rip their DNA device apart to change the battery themselves. Some may send it in to the manufacturer or a third party to have the battery replaced, but that an unnecessary PIA with unnecessary costs, not to mention the time wasted.

For the MVP, why can't you just take a volt meter to see what the battery is putting out? I don't see someone who is capable of taking a device apart and soldering a new battery in not being capable of running a few tests on a battery or the built in charger.

i have to ask this. and please forgive me. i have to admit there's a possibility i'm completely overlooking something. BUT; you do realize DNA devices with built in batteries also have built in charge ports, right?

assuming you do understand that, you can use your device any time you want. well, provided you have it charged enough to use it whenever you want to. all it takes is an open usb charging port.

also... if you're willing to pay $250+ for the liberty of having a mod you never have to change batteries in, you can set the wattage and takes low ohm coils while putting out high wattage, then you can certainly afford a $25 to $30 surcharge every couple years to replace the battery whether you can do it yourself or not.

 

[p.opus]

p.opus; with a little knowledge and understanding, even that's pretty simple. for example, the manufacturer tells you the specifics of the battery. 2600mah capacity, 20c discharge rate from a single cell. this relates directly to a 3.7v nominal, 5.2A 2600mah pack. then all you need to know is the physical size... which you would measure with calipers. then start at hobbyking and fastech and search the web until you find single lipo cells that match your specs.

if you can solder, you're probably good to go.



i have to ask this. and please forgive me. i have to admit there's a possibility i'm completely overlooking something. BUT; you do realize DNA devices with built in batteries also have built in charge ports, right?

assuming you do understand that, you can use your device any time you want. well, provided you have it charged enough to use it whenever you want to. all it takes is an open usb charging port.

also... if you're willing to pay $250+ for the liberty of having a mod you never have to change batteries in, you can set the wattage and takes low ohm coils while putting out high wattage, then you can certainly afford a $25 to $30 surcharge every couple years to replace the battery whether you can do it yourself or not.

I think that people mistakenly equate the existence of an "built in" battery to the unit being disposable.

Obviously, this is not the case. In some cases it's a fairly easy proposition. The Protovapor XPV chassis, from what I understand is fairly easy to disassemble and they use standard 18650 batteries, so you would be able to read what battery to get and easily replace it with just basic mechanical and electrical skills.

Other mods, like the MVP, are not really easy to take a part, and they were not "designed" to have their batteries replaced. As a result, getting to the battery may be a little tougher and assembly and reassembly may be a little more challenging.

Charging by USB is so convenient. You can continue to vape while charging, don't need to worry about bringing an extra battery or charger around and don't have to keep swapping batteries in and out of the unit.

I'd love it if Provari made a little Lipo module that fit up inside the tube that had a Micro Usb port on the bottom so I could just charge my ProVari on the go. How cool would that be......

 

[caged]

p.opus; with a little knowledge and understanding, even that's pretty simple. for example, the manufacturer tells you the specifics of the battery. 2600mah capacity, 20c discharge rate from a single cell. this relates directly to a 3.7v nominal, 5.2A 2600mah pack. then all you need to know is the physical size... which you would measure with calipers. then start at hobbyking and fastech and search the web until you find single lipo cells that match your specs.

if you can solder, you're probably good to go.



i have to ask this. and please forgive me. i have to admit there's a possibility i'm completely overlooking something. BUT; you do realize DNA devices with built in batteries also have built in charge ports, right?

assuming you do understand that, you can use your device any time you want. well, provided you have it charged enough to use it whenever you want to. all it takes is an open usb charging port.

also... if you're willing to pay $250+ for the liberty of having a mod you never have to change batteries in, you can set the wattage and takes low ohm coils while putting out high wattage, then you can certainly afford a $25 to $30 surcharge every couple years to replace the battery whether you can do it yourself or not.

Of course. Not everyone is always tethered to a computer or a power source. Many days I want to come home from work, swap my battery, and head back out. other days I want to vape while lying on the couch. In either case, even if you could use these devices as a pass through, it's not always convenient to do so. If you can't, then you have to interrupt the charge every time you want to take a hit, then start charging again.

And yes, I could easily afford the $25 - $35 to have the battery replaced, but it just seems like a waste of money and a huge inconvenience. I wouldn't want to be without my favorite device for a couple of weeks for no good reason either.

 

[beckdg]

good points, both of you.

one thing to point out is almost all dna mods actually are easy to take apart. most are not factory assembled which means they're assembled with tools readily available to consumers and can be disassemble with those same tools. for what that's worth...

another thing is there are dna mods available (though, may be tough to get ahold of) that do offer the swap and go convenience of an 18650 tube mod. the zna and i believe the full size hana mods v3 are prime examples.

just FYI; usb charging isn't on my priority list either. i too see it as inconvenient under most circumstances. though, i am considering an mvp for myself when i start over the road trucking in the near future here. it'll likely be more convenient to plug into a car lighter on the dash than to stop the truck, go into the sleeper and get a fresh battery...

 

[p.opus]

good points, both of you.

one thing to point out is almost all dna mods actually are easy to take apart. most are not factory assembled which means they're assembled with tools readily available to consumers and can be disassemble with those same tools. for what that's worth...

another thing is there are dna mods available (though, may be tough to get ahold of) that do offer the swap and go convenience of an 18650 tube mod. the zna and i believe the full size hana mods v3 are prime examples.

just FYI; usb charging isn't on my priority list either. i too see it as inconvenient under most circumstances. though, i am considering an mvp for myself when i start over the road trucking in the near future here. it'll likely be more convenient to plug into a car lighter on the dash than to stop the truck, go into the sleeper and get a fresh battery...

It's convenient in that you don't have to tote an extra battery around. If you have a phone that also uses micro-usb, then you're set.

pbusardo shouted out a new xtar charger that's a single tray micro usb charger that I just ordered from sun vapers.

Seems to be a great travel companion. Could use my phone charger to top of the battery in the car or in the office. And when not plugged in, it would serve as a nice battery holder in my pocket.

Xtar MC1 Portable USB Charger | Sun-Vapers.com

And at 6 bucks, what's not to like?

 

[tuxracer]

I get everything you say.

If you put a battery in backwards in a charger, it won't fry the charger.

If you put a battery in backwards on a DNA chip, you'll fry the chip. Same as with the Kick 2.

Apparently Evolv has no problems telling their customers tough ..... if they are stupid and insert the battery in wrong with their Kick.

However, a lot of mod manufacturers don't want to deal with the hassle which is why they use standard batteries with soldered leads and use the USB charging. (This does not make it a throwaway as beckdg so eloquently mentioned).

Evolv doesnt put reverse battery protection in to keep people safe, the DNA boards check the internal resistance of the battery when turned on and a couple other things to make sure that the battery is safe to use, any way they would put reverse battery protection in there would ruin their battery safety that is built in to a chip. In Evolv's mind (and they are very correct) a DNA chip replacement is cheaper than a face replacement

 

[eda123]

Is that true? How would RBP ruin their battery safety? It cuts off current to the entire circuit if the polarity is reversed. Im pretty well versed in this type of stuff, how would it "ruin" the chipset?

 

[tuxracer]

its all in PBusardo's interview with Zen the first part specifically (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-xCMzDQOGg, 31 minutes in if you dont have time to watch it all) is where he talks about how the DNA board communicates with the battery, im not an expert with electronics but i know Evolv has quite a few of them. its not hard to think of a RPB switcher would interfere with the chips tests on internal battery resistance and amp limitations as the switcher would act like a firewall in a computer only allowing information/power to only go one way as it would switch on when the board tries to test the battery because it would read power going the wrong way. saftey > $50 chip

edit: im also fairly sure RPB would bottleneck the amount of current the board can pull from the battery, im sure theres a workaround for that but id figure it would make the chip significantly larger and it would definately interfere with efficiency, which im sure we can all agree is a big deal as getting the most out of our batteries is fairly important

 

[beckdg]

It's convenient in that you don't have to tote an extra battery around.

i run everything in 18650 mode. even running @ ~20 Watts, i've never been inconvenienced by having to have an extra battery with me. i have sony vtc4s, panasonic 2900mah pd's, AW 1600mah's and AW 2000mah's and a couple MVP 2s available. i'm never tethered to anything... ever. from empty to full charge takes literally maybe 10 seconds of every day.

it just doesn't get any more convenient. i never carry an extra battery with me because i never have to to get through a 14 hour day.

i normally vape at a level my provari simply isn't capable of let alone the MVP.

that being said, i don't see the convenience factor to usb charging on board unless i'm stuck somewhere stationary where said usb port is within reach all day long. hence why i'd consider an MVP for long haul trucking.

YMMV, obviously.

 

[^Top-Shelf^]

I'm just wondering why evolv couldn't just put a simple diode rated for the proper amps on there dna boards for reverse polarity protection. Is it because most dna devices use an on board charging chip?

Edit: diode could be placed after the charging contact so I don't think that's why. Maybe because it would not be as efficient but I don't think it would be by much...

 

[Laszlo]

Yep, the reverse polarity protection is typically done with a diode. Just about every circuit I've seen in my 30 years in EE is designed that way. Simple and it works.

 

[eda123]

Yep, the reverse polarity protection is typically done with a diode. Just about every circuit I've seen in my 30 years in EE is designed that way. Simple and it works.

Yep, diode is all it takes, add a MOSFET if you want to be even more careful. This will not act as any firewall as stated above... You could still measure battery current and internals without being affected. When the battery is installed right, it's a fixed known resistor in series with the voltage supply, of a very small value.

 

[tuxracer]

i dont know anything about the mosfet system, im not trying to claim i understand i know exactly whats going on in the DNA boards either. in the link i posted at the time i mentioned is when Zen is talking about why Evolv doesnt use a diode, not only would a diode rated for 12 amps be by far the largest component on the board it only allows information/power to travel one way as in you cant ensure that the battery is safe to use for high drain applications when you use a diode

 

[nightfell]

I always have more than one device on me so having one that has a built in battery is no biggie to me. Or if I'm running in and right back out of my house I can just grab another device.

 

[AntC]

Id think anybody that has a DNA device has more than one mod, and more than one they enjoy. Its not rocket science, its called pass through. If you're looking for it to be such an inconvenience, it will be. If for some reason I go all the way home just to turn right back around and leave again, I
myself would a)bring a charger,or b)bring another mod, again I have more than one I like, or
c)vape it pass through. NOT the end of the world.
I have a VaporShark DNA30 and have had NO issues. And when the battery needs replacing, I can part with my mod(again, have others),and the measly 25 dollars to replace it. I never thought of it as such a life and death "direction" mods are taking. If people dont want a dna without 18650,and this will blow some people's minds, THEY DONT HAVE TO GET IT.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

 

[nitrojuga]

Blame Evolv....

If Evolv had included reverse battery protection in the DNA chipset, we would not have this issue.

It is not reasonable for a mod maker to simply put the mod in a tube and allow joe user to put in the battery backwards and fry his board.

Zen delayed the release of the ZNA for quite some time because they had to get the "physical" reverse protection just right. And even then, people complained that the ZNA required "button tops".

I do not expect a mod manufacturer to have to deal with RMA's from dolts who don't know how to insert their batteries.

So pick your poison. A manufacturer installed battery or a requirement to use button tops.

The zna is supposed to have reverse protection, but mine and a lot of others do not. Positive screw sits slightly higher than the Deleon insulator. I'm glad mine doesn't though. Allows me to use flat top sony batts.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2. Please ignore typos

 

[p.opus]

Id think anybody that has a DNA device has more than one mod, and more than one they enjoy. Its not rocket science, its called pass through. If you're looking for it to be such an inconvenience, it will be. If for some reason I go all the way home just to turn right back around and leave again, I
myself would a)bring a charger,or b)bring another mod, again I have more than one I like, or
c)vape it pass through. NOT the end of the world.
I have a VaporShark DNA30 and have had NO issues. And when the battery needs replacing, I can part with my mod(again, have others),and the measly 25 dollars to replace it. I never thought of it as such a life and death "direction" mods are taking. If people dont want a dna without 18650,and this will blow some people's minds, THEY DONT HAVE TO GET IT.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

It's the same argument that occurred when cell phones and MP3 players started being made with non-user replaceable batteries. Everyone saw it as a harbinger of the apocalypse. Of course no one mentioned that most people actually get new stuff long before the battery breathes it's final breath.