When is a "limited edition" not limited?

[Absintheur]

I am almost surprised that many folks believe the term "limited edition" should be applied to some PVs. A limited edition is an edition of something that is limited in the number produced. Changing colors or decorations does not make an item a limited edition. Winchester tried this years ago pumping out so many limited editions of the 94 lever action that collectors have pretty much washed their hands of them. Most sell for the same price or less than a standard 94 today.

A good example of a limited edition is the Kenny Pipe by Gepetto, He opened a list for ten and will not make the same model again. He won't just change the color and call them another limited edition.

If a PV manufacturer released a specially colored and decorated PV once or even twice a year I could almost see calling it a limited edition, but to release one twice a month...that places them in the same category as the Bradbury Mint Star Trek Plates. I am honestly amazed the flippers in the classies are able to realize such big profits for these faux limited edition PVs. I find it interesting none of them post the price they paid for them in their ads unlike people posting things like AMP tanks, ZEN mods, and such are willing to do. I do think it should be mandatory to list retail price in all classified ads here on the forums.

Once people realize that if they quit paying inflated prices for these PVs then the second hand prices will fall to where they should be, no higher than ten or twenty dollars over retail. All people have to do is stop feeding the flippers and profiteers and they will be able to buy these PVs for fair market value.

I did not name any maker in this thread, there are several that fit the description and they are not to blame for the second hand pricing, profiteering, and flipping other than peripherally. The use of the term "limited edition" is a stretch however.

Caveat emptor

 

[crxess]

Thought someone was asking a question............... ended up in a class room

 

[Trick]

If you're referring to what I think you are... The PV's not limited, but the parts are. And if people are willing to pay insane prices for them, then that's what they're worth, whether that price is justified any other way or not.

Personally, I think they're paying way too much and becoming victims to hype, but that doesn't effect me any... I just don't buy them. There's just nothing to get upset over. You obviously just don't value some things to the same degree others do.

 

[Fury83]

So let's say we're talking about ihybrids because we're talking about ihybrids. I'm not big into different colors and a engraved design making something worth more money, their retail price reflects that. As with any item, the market value is dictated by how many people want them.

I generally don't do a lot of collectors editions, if I somehow purchased an ihybrid le...it would be simply to purchase an ihybrid. If there was a standard currently made, I'd never even consider buying an LE. I'd pay retail for one if I magic'd my way into being able to purchase one through normal avenues.

If people want to pay that much for them, they can go right ahead. It'll work itself out over time. Eventually people will realize their special edition is cool because it looks cool but not 400-500 dollar cool. Maybe there will always be people willing to pay that but the audience will shrink the more the number of editions that come out.

What really irks me is the "why is all the good stuff sold out?" threads.

I posted a reply to one a month or so ago that Gus stuff, EA's, Super T stuff, Zen (atty and hybrids), Cobras, Dingos/Rollers and Legacy's were all available...which they were all at that time.

They responded that wasn't what they were looking for, I would guess it was because it was available. Until people want to buy the good stuff out there rather than get robbed for the "limited" or off production stuff in the classies, you'll see these prices paid. There is almost always high quality mechs and genny's available, people have just convinced themselves they aren't as good as the ones they can't get. Maybe not as particularly suited to exactly what you want but there is a hell of a vape to be had.

edit...sorry this is a bit all over the place

 

[Sero]

ihybrids LEs are technically still being produced even if its a different color/engraving every month. They are currently exempt from the retail + 20% max price rule on the classifieds because they are "limited/out of production" items.

Every time a new LE comes out, a week later you see some come on the classies for 90% more than these people paid for it. It makes it so much harder for someone who doesn't have one to get one. It isn't a price justified by "supply and demand." That's not the only thing at work here....

 

[tc1]

If someone is dumb enough to pay $500 for an aluminum mod that could be worth less than 1/5 of what they paid in a year or two .... let them. If a person has the extra cash to spend more than retail on an item ... let them.

Granted, it sucks when someone who really wanted one gets the shaft because of a scalper. But id rather be the guy who never could buy one than the guy who over valued the hype and didn't think about future mods lowering the value of old ones.

 

[Absintheur]

My main point was not the silly pricing...that was secondary...my point was these are not limited editions...and definitely not a real collectors item. My advice about pricing was included because some people may not realize this and end up being sorry about spending the money at a later point down the road.

There were 10 of these made...there won't be anymore...ever. That is a limited edition and a collector's item...and I am still sick I missed getting on the list

 

[tc1]

Anything that has a set run number is limited edition, even if it is a simple cosmetic change.

They've done this with vehicles for decades. There are makes and models out there where the limited edition factor is nothing more than a custom color or decals ... everything else being equal to the standard factory model.

So while the device might function and perform the same ... that "look" is in fact limited and not reproduced.

To me the biggest factor IS price, as it can falsely inflate the market and in return cause more scalping. Basically the sale and purchasing of LE mods will become similar to hedge investing.

My biggest concern would be the abuse this could cause in the future. Vendors falsifying production numbers to increase desirability and increase after market prices ... then slowly pumping them into the market at a much greater cost.

They come out looking clean because as far as the public knows ... they didn't cause the price spike ... the secondary market did. Reality being that they were behind the false economy the whole time.

Sound familiar? We see it every day ... especially at the gas pump.

 

[Trick]

So if wood is cut a certain way in a limited run, it's a "real" collector's item... but if aluminum is cut a certain way in a limited run, it's not?

 

[Mrrickyyap]

How about a 1of1 prototype? I just won this from MMV. Just waiting for its arrival. it's a POLDID (poldiac x did)

 

[gmypc]

My main point was not the silly pricing...that was secondary...my point was these are not limited editions...and definitely not a real collectors item.

I don't think that's for you to decide - the creator has all the rights to call something a LE. And even then, it is ultimately up to the free market to 'treat' it as an LE.

Just because something's labelled as an LE doesn't automatically make it collectible.

The caravela does not have the LE moniker - are you ok with how people are selling them for 3-5 times the original price?

My advice about pricing was included because some people may not realize this and end up being sorry about spending the money at a later point down the road.

Great advice and a noble effort. There is the ugly side where greedy people go in for the sole purpose of profiteering.

But we can only go so far trying to protect unsuspecting/uninformed people. If this is your intent, your original post and title could focus more on people being more educated and level headed when going after their dream mods - and not on whether something can be called a LE or not.

Just my 2 pesos

 

[Fury83]

So if wood is cut a certain way in a limited run, it's a "real" collector's item... but if aluminum is cut a certain way in a limited run, it's not?

It's a collector's item if people collect it.

That said, I don't think ihybrid listed editions are significantly different from each other. Just my opinion though.

I'm ok with people paying what I consider silly prices for them though. It doesn't effect me if someone thinks they are extra special.

Plenty of good stuff coming out and plenty of good stuff for normal prices in the classies.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Trick]

It's a collector's item if people collect it.

That said, I don't think ihybrid listed editions are significantly different from each other. Just my opinion though.

I'm ok with people paying what I consider silly prices for them though. It doesn't effect me if someone thinks they are extra special.

Sort of my point, really. I'm not trying to prop up iHybrids by any means... I think they're all hype, myself. I'm not a fan at all, and mine was sold off long ago (at what I paid for it -- I illogically felt guilty about charging a lot of money for what I considered a very sub-standard $250 PV). But some people love them, and collect them, and they've got real monetary value.

Sure, the only difference is a little engraving (and I'll withhold my opinion on what I think about the aesthetics of the engraving on most of them) on a metal tube (and I'll also withhold my opinion on the quality of those tubes), but there are people who place a very high value on those, and they are available in very limited quantities. Whether the OP likes it or not, they're sought after by a large number of collectors. They are, clearly, collector's items. Ranting about whether it's deserved or not won't change that.

 

[jjallen57]

Recently watched a documentary on Netflix called 'Kicks' or something like that. Check it out if you get a chance. (about insane prices for LE shoes, aftermarket mods, re-issues, etc.)

Highly recommended.

 

[Fury83]

Sort of my point, really. I'm not trying to prop up iHybrids by any means... I think they're all hype, myself. I'm not a fan at all, and mine was sold off long ago (at what I paid for it -- I illogically felt guilty about charging a lot of money for what I considered a very sub-standard $250 PV). But some people love them, and collect them, and they've got real monetary value.

Sure, the only difference is a little engraving (and I'll withhold my opinion on what I think about the aesthetics of the engraving on most of them) on a metal tube (and I'll also withhold my opinion on the quality of those tubes), but there are people who place a very high value on those, and they are available in very limited quantities. Whether the OP likes it or not, they're sought after by a large number of collectors. They are, clearly, collector's items. Ranting about whether it's deserved or not won't change that.

I guess collectors items is the best way to put it but I consider them, and this may sound weird, less limited due to their lack of differentiation beyond color/engraving. The one with the dragon on it being limited doesn't mean much to me since to me it is still the same device. Obviously others assign a different value to that bit of differentiation.

Someone hand creating ten unique wood pipes is more what I think of when I think of limited edition and if I wanted something like that off the classies, I'd expect a markup.

People do love their ihybrids, really any hybrid that isn't a zen seems to drive ridiculous prices. I saw Nobles up for some ridiculous prices and I had felt bad about charging what I paid+paypal+shipping for my unused one.

 

[WillyB]

...There is the ugly side where greedy people go in for the sole purpose of profiteering.

Just my 2 pesos

Here in the USA buying low and selling high is the cornerstone of the whole economy. I have bought many, many things in my lifetime simply for the sole purpose of turning them over for a profit. And how the term "profiteering" applies to some silly and totally unneeded battery holder is beyond me.

 

[ClippinWings]

I don't see the LE ihybrids as limited edition in the sense of being special... It's just what they are... In fact I would rather own a standard ihybrid... Because I find them to be much more unique and special, due to the abundance of the various LE models.

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Sent using psychic mind control powers... and Tapatalk

 

[sachavaca]

I don't see how any pv is a collector item, I see people using more as statis item (im cool).
do you really think in 50 years they will be worth all kinds of money?.
If so I would not want you as a finance advisor, your retirement is doomed

 

[TheSneakerHoarder]

Simple--don't buy it.

After a while, crap stuff, even LEs get cheap. Anyone buying something "LE" and turning around to sell at profit is pitiful. The person that buys it at full asking price is just as bad. Especially the gennie stuff. It is a SS wick and wire--weak and simple design.

 

[tc1]

...There is the ugly side where greedy people go in for the sole purpose of profiteering.

Just my 2 pesos

Here in the USA buying low and selling high is the cornerstone of the whole economy. I have bought many, many things in my lifetime simply for the sole purpose of turning them over for a profit. And how the term "profiteering" applies to some silly and totally unneeded battery holder is beyond me.

Absolutely. But if there was an insulin shortage and someone bought an entire case, then tried to sell it at twice the cost on a diabetes community forum ... some people might take issue with it.

Not the best analogy but I understand where people are coming from. Many people see this forum as a community site designed to educate, share, and help others. Many feel that the initial purpose of the classifieds was to allow people to easily buy, sell, and trade vape gear ... often used at a lower price.

Some people now see it as becoming a free and easy way for people to make substantial resell profits ... like Craigslist or Ebay (without the seller fees). Meanwhile the vendors who actually make the product at its retail pricing must pay a fee in order to participate on the forum as a vendor.

I think some people have a problem with the intent of some resell members and feel they are taking advantage of a system that they originally saw as one designed to give more access and less exclusiveness. In short ... they see this as a community forum about helping fellow vapers ... not denying others access for the sake of making a profit.

I don't dare say I speak for those people but that certainly is the vibe I get from them and their frustration.