We Vapers are Screwed!
- Thread starter tonyorion
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I'm emailing my insurance Rep for my existing plan information. As of last year, there was no clause in the mix for any anti-smoking, e-cig, lozenge, gum, etc... forms of nicotine replacement/treatment. With Obamacare in the mix for those of us within the U.S.A, I'm curious to see what they come back with. Until then...vape on.
If you had bothered to read the rest of the thread instead of stopping at just the link to the so called "article", you'd know that these types of letters are common from Health Canada and the majority of shops that receive them ignore it and continue doing business. Businesses that fight back never get a follow up letter from Health Canada because they can't back up their rhetoric.
Kids have always smoked before they were legal age to buy cigs, and the law hasn't kept them from starting.
Sure, if they listened to me they wouldn't start vaping or smoking either one. Not as kids, and not as adults.
But if they are going to start, they should start vaping and skip smoking. Yes, I expect to see more and more places make laws against selling vape-gear to those under 18, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea, and I don't believe it will have any real effect on whether they can get the stuff. Prohibition doesn't work even when the item isn't available to anyone, much less when any adult can get the item easily.
I think it's a mistake to say "This is happening in Canada, therefore it is going to happen in the US". Canada has had major limits on nicotine for a long time, and not many places in the US, if any, have similar laws.
Sure, if they listened to me they wouldn't start vaping or smoking either one. Not as kids, and not as adults.
But if they are going to start, they should start vaping and skip smoking. Yes, I expect to see more and more places make laws against selling vape-gear to those under 18, but I'm not convinced it's a good idea, and I don't believe it will have any real effect on whether they can get the stuff. Prohibition doesn't work even when the item isn't available to anyone, much less when any adult can get the item easily.
I think it's a mistake to say "This is happening in Canada, therefore it is going to happen in the US". Canada has had major limits on nicotine for a long time, and not many places in the US, if any, have similar laws.
If enough kids find vaping cool they may be able to legalize it in some states after the gov't bans it.
Mike,
I know the date because I purchased some bits and pieces and still have my credit card receipt. Do I know the young lady's name? No. It was just a casual conversation with a stranger. Do I know what she looked like? Yes, blonde, blue eyed, tall, fairly attractive. Then again, this is Grand Rapids, and everyone is blond, blue-eyed and tall because of the heavy Dutch influence. I do not want to get into a legal entanglement, because I would have to go through a lot of effort to prove it since I do not have any documentation.
I am also not prepared to go in there with a spy camera and microphone to record another incident to satisfy you. Open your eyes, drive by any high school bus stop and observe. Walk into every B&M and observe.
What you can conceive of is irrelevant. There is absolutely nothing illegal about what the shop did since there are no restrictions on selling ecigs to someone under 18-still considered a minor in Michigan. It would be a voluntary restriction on the part of the shop owner not to sell to someone under 18. Are you naïve enough to think that a businessman would walk away from a legal profit opportunity, or that all shop owners are reputable? Especially in this brutally competitive marketplace where prices can vary by as much as $30-$40 on an item under a $100! People do stupid things when they need to survive. One shop has already closed here as well as two mall kiosks I know of.
One of the first states to consider restricting the sale of ecigs was NY. The reason? A state senator saw a mall kiosk clearly selling to minors and proposed legislation to regulate ecigs.
I know what I heard from this young lady. If you do not believe me, that's your problem.
I know the date because I purchased some bits and pieces and still have my credit card receipt. Do I know the young lady's name? No. It was just a casual conversation with a stranger. Do I know what she looked like? Yes, blonde, blue eyed, tall, fairly attractive. Then again, this is Grand Rapids, and everyone is blond, blue-eyed and tall because of the heavy Dutch influence. I do not want to get into a legal entanglement, because I would have to go through a lot of effort to prove it since I do not have any documentation.
I am also not prepared to go in there with a spy camera and microphone to record another incident to satisfy you. Open your eyes, drive by any high school bus stop and observe. Walk into every B&M and observe.
What you can conceive of is irrelevant. There is absolutely nothing illegal about what the shop did since there are no restrictions on selling ecigs to someone under 18-still considered a minor in Michigan. It would be a voluntary restriction on the part of the shop owner not to sell to someone under 18. Are you naïve enough to think that a businessman would walk away from a legal profit opportunity, or that all shop owners are reputable? Especially in this brutally competitive marketplace where prices can vary by as much as $30-$40 on an item under a $100! People do stupid things when they need to survive. One shop has already closed here as well as two mall kiosks I know of.
One of the first states to consider restricting the sale of ecigs was NY. The reason? A state senator saw a mall kiosk clearly selling to minors and proposed legislation to regulate ecigs.
I know what I heard from this young lady. If you do not believe me, that's your problem.
You should call or email the shop, and let them know how unprofessional that is, and that you won't be back. Please, don't support a shop like that.
Last edited:
I wouldn't buy from any shop that would sell to a minor..That being said, who's to stop them from buying online?
I guess nobody could as long as it was shipped to am adults mailbox. If they want something bad enough no matter
their age, they will find a way to obtain it.
The more I think on this issue, the more I lean towards no age restrictions on vaping. Even on nicotine liquid.
We keep claiming it is no more harmful than caffeine, right? So are we then proposing an age limit on caffeine?
And I keep thinking about all those under 18 who already are smoking. We all rave about how e-cigs have been a godsend for us to quit, but we want to deny teens the same chance? Why? To keep others teens from starting? Isn't that the same argument that is used against us?
I think age restrictions entice more non-smoking minors than it discourages. Nothing is more tempting than forbidden fruit.
And our submission on this issue just gives opposers of all stripes (nicotine, sugar, etc.) the impression that they have our permission to decide what's best for us, and that the fight is just about the details.
We keep claiming it is no more harmful than caffeine, right? So are we then proposing an age limit on caffeine?
And I keep thinking about all those under 18 who already are smoking. We all rave about how e-cigs have been a godsend for us to quit, but we want to deny teens the same chance? Why? To keep others teens from starting? Isn't that the same argument that is used against us?
I think age restrictions entice more non-smoking minors than it discourages. Nothing is more tempting than forbidden fruit.
And our submission on this issue just gives opposers of all stripes (nicotine, sugar, etc.) the impression that they have our permission to decide what's best for us, and that the fight is just about the details.
Not for me it isn't Traver -- My opinion is to treat vaping products containing nicotine at the same standard used for tobacco
products. IDs required to avoid selling to minors. Kids get addicted to alcohol also but to make it less cool to drink wouldn't mean
lowering the drinking age to 12 would it? Common sense has to be used in these matters where kids are concerned.
I don't think having no age restrictions on sales of juice would benefit anyone. Mods or PVDs would fall into the same category
as a shot glass or beer mug. Like a pipe or cigarette case, anyone of any age should be able to buy those. Just my opinion.
I guess this could get pretty complicated if you think about it.
The Liberals would have a field day on Vape Banns for sure if that was the case imo.
Hold on a minute here<< TO THIS DAY HEALTH CANADA HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO SHUT DOWN ANY E-ECIG STORE IN CANADA>>...
This is just the media...
Here is a quote from a letter an E-cig store sent back to Health Canada in response to their letter...
This has been going on for a few years now.. Vaper's in Canada are multiplying and organizing.. and will not go down without many battles.. as I see you Americans doing the same... Life goes on..
Fight the good fight....
We need to define what the purpose is behind the law.
We don't ban alcohol to minors because they can get addicted. We ban it because it is a mind-altering substance, and used in excess can cause instant death by overdose, and over time can cause liver and other damage. Age restrictions make sense here.
If addiction is the standard, then why single out nicotine. Why not sugar and caffeine too?
Age restrictions on cigarettes, based on the addiction argument, is a red herring now that nicotine can be consumed without smoking. Keeping age restrictions on cigarettes because of smoking makes sense.
I really don't understand the whole, "e-juice should be regulated the same as tobacco" argument at all. The reasons for regulating tobacco are because of the harm caused by smoking. We need to separate tobacco products from the activity of smoking. Age restrictions on 'smoking' of anything, whether it's tobacco or tea leaves makes sense.
Although I have to admit, that age restrictions on anything are impractical. As we all know, 'kids can get anything they want'. Not an argument not to have restrictions, but more an argument for having a good reason, and I don't see a good reason yet for restrictions on vaping.
I stayed in a country with no alcohol age limit. A baby could drink whisky legally. Of course Mom has the sense not to put whiskey in that bottle. The net result seemed to be those kids were less interested in drinking than USA kids.
I don't think your analogy holds up. We ban alcohol to minor because we think it is bad for them. We are agreeing to a ban on vaping by minors because it is good for us.
I realize it isn't that simple.
My own position to hold my nose and not oppose banning for minors but I won't support it either. This is one of those situations where I would rather leave it to parents.
Good point..Well here in the US we have what is known as the "Nanny State" The government treats us all as if
we were children incapable to make sound decisions for ourselves. So they make them for us. Ikr..it's stupid isn't it?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
