You need to hit the "like" button at the top of the screen, then you can make comments to what's been put on the wall.
Jim
Vote for e-cigarettes over cigarettes in online doctors' poll
- Thread starter Bill Godshall
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You need to hit the "like" button at the top of the screen, then you can make comments to what's been put on the wall.
Jim
Current tally:
Increase e-cigarettes to stop smoking altogether 75.36% (211 votes)
Continue e-cigarettes but add pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 12.14% (34 votes)
Stop e-cigarettes and start a pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 12.5% (35 votes)
Still well more than double the other two options combined!
Increase e-cigarettes to stop smoking altogether 75.36% (211 votes)
Continue e-cigarettes but add pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 12.14% (34 votes)
Stop e-cigarettes and start a pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 12.5% (35 votes)
Still well more than double the other two options combined!
Good to see that!
Thanks for the update.
Jim, thanks for explaining how to leave a comment. Instead I left a lengthly comment on the other link I previously posted.
I am not really good at saying what I think but this is what I left for them to read but I think it has to be approved and so they may not post it.
My Words to them:
I am a 37 year smoker, (not 37 years old). Well, was!
After much personal research, I chose to use a personal
vaporizer(PV), known as an egic. I have been smoke free
for almost as many months as I have been using a
personal vaporizer. Not that I actually intended for
that to happen. I was looking for a better way to at
least cut back smoking since all my previous attemps to
quit smoking didn't last long term. With this system I
even sleep at night which was a real problem in my past
attempts to quit smoking. Oh wait, there is a pill for
that too: isn't there? Always more drugs to use with
all their nasty "safe" side effects and costs.
In the 3 days after starting use of a personal
vaporizer, I had quit wheezing. In a week I quit
getting up every day coughing my guts up. Oh, and did I
mention I quit smoking without losing sleep and adding
more drugs to my life. I find it easier to go for my
daily walks up a mountain behind the hospital I work at
too.
Personal vaporizers sound very toxic don't they? What
is in them? Simple nicotine vapor along with other
products we all use in our daily lives that have
already been approved by the FDA. No smoke, no fire, no
over 4000 toxic chemicals in real cigs WOW!
A select few are promoting fear with ignorance over
personal vaporizers. People should be as willing to
learn about ecigs as they are about any other drug they
are willing to put in their bodies to stop smoking
before they make uninformed decisions about personal
vaporizers.
The rate of quitting smoking long term with medications
currently used for smoking cessation is extremely low;
not to mention the cost and side effects associated
with all these methods.
FDA studies on egics have been very limited and flawed.
The studies they have done on other pharmaceuticals for
smoking cessation have proven more toxic but
"acceptable" than what has been found in ecig vapor;
vapor, not smoke. Does that make sense?
As far as this being targeted at children. Lets do some
independant thinking on this issue. PV's are very
inconvenient and time consuming to use. One must carry
chargers, batteries, atomizers, carts, stuffing, and
nic juice around. Why would any teen wanting to smoke
carry all that when all they need is a pack of cigs and
a lighter for a quick fix. Teens do not have time for
all the extra work associated with egics. There is
constant maintenance and fiddling to do.
Do some worthwhile research on your own instead of
being drug around by your nose by the media. There are
plenty of ecig forums around to find all kinds of
information at.
Go look at the FDA research for yourself. Check the
flaws. Talk to people who do use personal vaporizers.
Check the sites out that sell them. No one promotes
sales to anyone under 18. Getting these online would be
far more time consuming, have to wait for the mail,
hmm, parents will see if the child has used their
charge card, etc. Check this out for yourself!
Please just do your own research!! Also, while doing
that, since all the PV's are doing is producing nic
vapor: which is mostly absorbed though the oral tissue,
much like skoal products, just nothing laying on oral
tissue all the time as with skoal products; check out
all the possible uses of nicotine being worked on by
the medical field. ADHD, Alzheimers, etc.
Flawed information is nothing more than propaganda and
we all know how good the media is at that.
Instead of inciting fear in people, some time should be
spent researching what this is all about so people can
make informed choices that work for them. If personal
vaporizers are making people's lives better, then more
research needs to be promoted to keeping this safe as a
choice for those who need it and are far more healthier
as of now because of it.
No one is trying to promote these products to kids.
Those of us whos lives have greatly benefitted from
using personal vaporizers deserve to be heard.
The FDA and tobacco companies are looking at great
losses over these tools and we know this will cause
issues. Let's just not jump the gun and make
unwarranted assumptions. This is still America!: or is
it?
Thanks for the update.
Jim, thanks for explaining how to leave a comment. Instead I left a lengthly comment on the other link I previously posted.
I am not really good at saying what I think but this is what I left for them to read but I think it has to be approved and so they may not post it.
My Words to them:
I am a 37 year smoker, (not 37 years old). Well, was!
After much personal research, I chose to use a personal
vaporizer(PV), known as an egic. I have been smoke free
for almost as many months as I have been using a
personal vaporizer. Not that I actually intended for
that to happen. I was looking for a better way to at
least cut back smoking since all my previous attemps to
quit smoking didn't last long term. With this system I
even sleep at night which was a real problem in my past
attempts to quit smoking. Oh wait, there is a pill for
that too: isn't there? Always more drugs to use with
all their nasty "safe" side effects and costs.
In the 3 days after starting use of a personal
vaporizer, I had quit wheezing. In a week I quit
getting up every day coughing my guts up. Oh, and did I
mention I quit smoking without losing sleep and adding
more drugs to my life. I find it easier to go for my
daily walks up a mountain behind the hospital I work at
too.
Personal vaporizers sound very toxic don't they? What
is in them? Simple nicotine vapor along with other
products we all use in our daily lives that have
already been approved by the FDA. No smoke, no fire, no
over 4000 toxic chemicals in real cigs WOW!
A select few are promoting fear with ignorance over
personal vaporizers. People should be as willing to
learn about ecigs as they are about any other drug they
are willing to put in their bodies to stop smoking
before they make uninformed decisions about personal
vaporizers.
The rate of quitting smoking long term with medications
currently used for smoking cessation is extremely low;
not to mention the cost and side effects associated
with all these methods.
FDA studies on egics have been very limited and flawed.
The studies they have done on other pharmaceuticals for
smoking cessation have proven more toxic but
"acceptable" than what has been found in ecig vapor;
vapor, not smoke. Does that make sense?
As far as this being targeted at children. Lets do some
independant thinking on this issue. PV's are very
inconvenient and time consuming to use. One must carry
chargers, batteries, atomizers, carts, stuffing, and
nic juice around. Why would any teen wanting to smoke
carry all that when all they need is a pack of cigs and
a lighter for a quick fix. Teens do not have time for
all the extra work associated with egics. There is
constant maintenance and fiddling to do.
Do some worthwhile research on your own instead of
being drug around by your nose by the media. There are
plenty of ecig forums around to find all kinds of
information at.
Go look at the FDA research for yourself. Check the
flaws. Talk to people who do use personal vaporizers.
Check the sites out that sell them. No one promotes
sales to anyone under 18. Getting these online would be
far more time consuming, have to wait for the mail,
hmm, parents will see if the child has used their
charge card, etc. Check this out for yourself!
Please just do your own research!! Also, while doing
that, since all the PV's are doing is producing nic
vapor: which is mostly absorbed though the oral tissue,
much like skoal products, just nothing laying on oral
tissue all the time as with skoal products; check out
all the possible uses of nicotine being worked on by
the medical field. ADHD, Alzheimers, etc.
Flawed information is nothing more than propaganda and
we all know how good the media is at that.
Instead of inciting fear in people, some time should be
spent researching what this is all about so people can
make informed choices that work for them. If personal
vaporizers are making people's lives better, then more
research needs to be promoted to keeping this safe as a
choice for those who need it and are far more healthier
as of now because of it.
No one is trying to promote these products to kids.
Those of us whos lives have greatly benefitted from
using personal vaporizers deserve to be heard.
The FDA and tobacco companies are looking at great
losses over these tools and we know this will cause
issues. Let's just not jump the gun and make
unwarranted assumptions. This is still America!: or is
it?
I may be alone in this, but I don't see an issue even IF teens were to start vaping just flavors with no nicotine. To imply otherwise supports the idea that merely the act of inhaling and exhaling air is immoral or dangerous. I realize we cannot afford to be seen as ecouraging the use of nicotine products amongst young people, but vaping is not necessarily about that for eveyone.
The whole "adolescents are in danger" argument is baseless.
My 17 year old son just told me that 4 or 5 of his SMOKING friends tried e-cigarettes and went right back to smoking traditional cigarettes because e-cigarettes were "too much of a pain."
The logic completely contradicts in arguing that non-smoking teens will be "attracted by the fruit and candy flavors" and then switch away to foul-tasting tobacco cigarettes, which do NOT contain those flavors.
My 17 year old son just told me that 4 or 5 of his SMOKING friends tried e-cigarettes and went right back to smoking traditional cigarettes because e-cigarettes were "too much of a pain."
The logic completely contradicts in arguing that non-smoking teens will be "attracted by the fruit and candy flavors" and then switch away to foul-tasting tobacco cigarettes, which do NOT contain those flavors.
Judy: When visiting a Facebook page of an organization, you must select to "Like" the organization. Then the ability to comment becomes available.
I've noticed the same issue with twenty somethings. I've had a number approach with real interest who eventually bought one. Not one managed to continue use. I really suspect that you need to have really gone through the "journey" of years of smoking and a real desire to find an alternative. For me I wouldn't have even tried them if it weren't for that fire resistant paper they added to smokes (untested for human consumption by the way) that started giving me warning signs. I'd given up trying to quit when all of a sudden I had.
I'm sure some younger smokers may be successful getting off cigarettes, but the primary market will be older, more dedicated smoker. Also someone that's willing to spend some serious money up front to find something that works for them.
Hey now... I'm 28 and switched over right away. I think I'm at 4 months now, kind of stopped counting. Though, I did smoke for 10 years so maybe I fit in your "dedicated smoker" category. My, non-smoker, wife actually likes trying out the different flavors when I mix up another DIY test batch (all with no nic of course, don't want to waste that on a trial).
is there any market research out there on the "average" e-cig user? i would imagine it would be older (no offense!), longer term smoker, maybe more established at work? probably white, middle class. i am 42. quit on october 8th. i tried using the e-cig a couple of years ago, and gave up because of the hassles (battery life, lack of TH) of the minis. a friend introduced me to the 3.7 volt varieties (i got an eGo on her recommendation), and i've been vaping every since. best thing i ever did. as for the KIDS, please. these things aren't cool to kids. they're not "bad ..." at all. they're not dangerous. they're not rebellious. they do nothing to promote the ideas that make kids smoke in the first place.
There is research, but I'm not sure you could call it "market research." It's more like "scientific research" -- you know, the stuff that our enemies keep claiming doesn't exist?
There is no excuse for our enemies to be ignorant of the survey conducted by J.F. Etter of the University of Geneva. It was published in BMC Public Health, May 4, 2010.
BioMed Central | Full text | Electronic cigarettes: a survey of users
They may be less aware of a survey that was conducted in late 2009 by researchers from the University of Alberta. It was eventually published as Chapter 19 of the Tobacco Harm Reduction Yearbook 2010. The full book can be downloaded here:
THR2010. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
The initial Working Paper can be read here: http://tobaccoharmreduction.org/wpapers/011v1.pdf
CASAA's own Kristin developed a survey to try to put to rest some of the most persistent myths about the products. You can see raw results here. https://www.surveymonkey.com/sr.aspx?sm=HrpzL8PN5cP366RWhWvCTjggiZM_2b8yQJHfwE9UXRNhE_3d
All these surveys show that the people using ecigarettes are older and were long-term smokers. Success rates for complete smoking abstinence range from 63% to 80.5% on the three surveys. Two of the three surveys note that the majority of those who are not completely smoking abstinent have significantly reduced the number smoked. Only Kristin's survey looked at demographics such as race, education, and income. Most users are white, not very rich, but very well educated.
I believe it may be this last demographic that is proving to be a bugaboo for the antis. They are used to smokers just rolling over and taking whatever lies and abuse were hurled at them. As a better educated group, we are not about to sit down and shut up; and many of us can fight them on their own turf, such as leaving well-thought-out responses to articles published in scientific journals.
I was just looking over those survey answers and I think it'd be good to redo that survey in the near future, since so many of those folks have been vaping longer than 3 months now!
I find it interesting that the ALA says that all of the calls to their hotlines about e-cigarettes are from people looking to quit smoking, yet only 20.4% of users surveyed stated that they tried e-cigs to quit nicotine altogether. It shows the disconnect that the ALA has with smokers who want to quit - most want to quit smoking but NOT quit nicotine altogether if they dont have to and still get a "smoking-like" experience. Many of those callers to the ALA hotline probably want to quit smoking, but like the option e-cigarettes give to keep using nicotine. When they call, they ask, "Can they help me quit smoking?" NOT "Can they help me quit nicotine?" yet the ALA tells them "there's no scientific proof they can help" based on the efficacy of e-cigarettes as nicotine addiction treatment devices, not smoking cessation (ie. substitute smoke with vapor and you've quit smoking.)
I find it interesting that the ALA says that all of the calls to their hotlines about e-cigarettes are from people looking to quit smoking, yet only 20.4% of users surveyed stated that they tried e-cigs to quit nicotine altogether. It shows the disconnect that the ALA has with smokers who want to quit - most want to quit smoking but NOT quit nicotine altogether if they dont have to and still get a "smoking-like" experience. Many of those callers to the ALA hotline probably want to quit smoking, but like the option e-cigarettes give to keep using nicotine. When they call, they ask, "Can they help me quit smoking?" NOT "Can they help me quit nicotine?" yet the ALA tells them "there's no scientific proof they can help" based on the efficacy of e-cigarettes as nicotine addiction treatment devices, not smoking cessation (ie. substitute smoke with vapor and you've quit smoking.)
Kristin makes a very important point, worth repeating for those of you who are new to this scene.
The medical community says "smoking cessation" when what they really mean is "nicotine cessation." This has created a great deal of confusion.
The current treatment for smoking is based on a false premise: The only way to achieve lasting abstinence from smoking is to achieve complete abstinence from all forms of nicotine. Thus, all of the FDA-approved nicotine products 1) provide a much lower level of nicotine than people get from smoking 2) come with directions to taper off use of the product over the course of a specified amount of time --usually 12 weeks.
The problem with (what I call) the Nicotine Abstinence approach is that when the medication ends, relapse begins. In fact, relapse often starts on the very first day of medication use because the products are so low in dosage. The statistics are grim: When used as directed, the success rate for complete smoking abstinence is 7% at 6 months, 5% at one year, and 2% at 20 months. When not used as directed (continued use), the success rates may be as high as 15 to 20%.
The belief that those who continue using nicotine are always in imminent danger of relapsing back to smoking is not borne out by the facts. Of Swedish men who switch from smoking to snus (a type of moist snuff), 66% manage to become totally abstinent from smoking for the rest of their lives. Those of us who have switched to e-cigarettes as a complete replacement are not experiencing urges to light up. Many of us can stand in the smoking section, using only our e-cigarette and not even experience an urge to smoke. In fact, many who, on a whim, light up several months after quitting traditional cigarettes put it out after one puff because it just tastes nasty.
When you take away the tar, carbon monoxide, particulates, and thousands of chemicals created by the process of combustion, nicotine is relatively harmless. Not completely free of harm, but no more harmful than another popular drug found in coffee, tea, and cola. Those Swedish snus users mentioned above who switched from smoking to snus live just as long as smokers who quit all forms of tobacco and nicotine. Many public health researchers and scientists estimate that switching to a non-smoked form of nicotine reduces the risks of tobacco-related disease by up to 99%.
The medical community says "smoking cessation" when what they really mean is "nicotine cessation." This has created a great deal of confusion.
The current treatment for smoking is based on a false premise: The only way to achieve lasting abstinence from smoking is to achieve complete abstinence from all forms of nicotine. Thus, all of the FDA-approved nicotine products 1) provide a much lower level of nicotine than people get from smoking 2) come with directions to taper off use of the product over the course of a specified amount of time --usually 12 weeks.
The problem with (what I call) the Nicotine Abstinence approach is that when the medication ends, relapse begins. In fact, relapse often starts on the very first day of medication use because the products are so low in dosage. The statistics are grim: When used as directed, the success rate for complete smoking abstinence is 7% at 6 months, 5% at one year, and 2% at 20 months. When not used as directed (continued use), the success rates may be as high as 15 to 20%.
The belief that those who continue using nicotine are always in imminent danger of relapsing back to smoking is not borne out by the facts. Of Swedish men who switch from smoking to snus (a type of moist snuff), 66% manage to become totally abstinent from smoking for the rest of their lives. Those of us who have switched to e-cigarettes as a complete replacement are not experiencing urges to light up. Many of us can stand in the smoking section, using only our e-cigarette and not even experience an urge to smoke. In fact, many who, on a whim, light up several months after quitting traditional cigarettes put it out after one puff because it just tastes nasty.
When you take away the tar, carbon monoxide, particulates, and thousands of chemicals created by the process of combustion, nicotine is relatively harmless. Not completely free of harm, but no more harmful than another popular drug found in coffee, tea, and cola. Those Swedish snus users mentioned above who switched from smoking to snus live just as long as smokers who quit all forms of tobacco and nicotine. Many public health researchers and scientists estimate that switching to a non-smoked form of nicotine reduces the risks of tobacco-related disease by up to 99%.
And I might add to the previous few comments, nicotine is NOT the only reason people smoke or should I say use tobacco. There are those other alkaloids in tobacco that some of us need to feel "normal". E cigs take care of the nicotine, but, at this time, do not provide the anti-depressant aspects of tobacco that other smokeless products address.
Jefferson was wrong when he stated "All men (and women} are created equal"' We are not, physiologically. However, with the proper chemical adjustments, we can all get closer. For some, nicotine puts us on par, for others, smokeless tobacco, Some need caffeine, some need exercise, you get the idea. I'm not going to try to to tell you what you need to do to make it to the end, please don't try to inflict your "right way" on me.
I was going to end with the previous statements, but a response I got on another thread just hit me. I mentioned some radical commenters on Dr Siegel's thread and was quickly chastised. I thought about that a bit. Everybody is a radical to someone else's thought process. The one's I felt were radical don't appear to believe there is anything wrong with smoking AND feel anyone that questions that premise is wrong. I support the right of smokers to smoke knowing the potential danger. I find those that feel that smoking is not a risky behavior and attack those that do, radical. Just my view.
Jefferson was wrong when he stated "All men (and women} are created equal"' We are not, physiologically. However, with the proper chemical adjustments, we can all get closer. For some, nicotine puts us on par, for others, smokeless tobacco, Some need caffeine, some need exercise, you get the idea. I'm not going to try to to tell you what you need to do to make it to the end, please don't try to inflict your "right way" on me.
I was going to end with the previous statements, but a response I got on another thread just hit me. I mentioned some radical commenters on Dr Siegel's thread and was quickly chastised. I thought about that a bit. Everybody is a radical to someone else's thought process. The one's I felt were radical don't appear to believe there is anything wrong with smoking AND feel anyone that questions that premise is wrong. I support the right of smokers to smoke knowing the potential danger. I find those that feel that smoking is not a risky behavior and attack those that do, radical. Just my view.
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The Annals of Internal Medicine has replaced its online poll about e-cigarettes (results below as of 6PM 11/15/10) with another poll about obesity
Annals of Internal Medicine
A patient tells you e-cigarettes have helped her reduce her smoking. What would you advise?
Increase e-cigarettes to stop smoking altogether 75.08% (235 votes)
Continue e-cigarettes but add pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 11.82% (37 votes)
Stop e-cigarettes and start a pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 13.1% (41 votes)
Annals of Internal Medicine
A patient tells you e-cigarettes have helped her reduce her smoking. What would you advise?
Increase e-cigarettes to stop smoking altogether 75.08% (235 votes)
Continue e-cigarettes but add pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 11.82% (37 votes)
Stop e-cigarettes and start a pharmacologic smoking cessation treatment 13.1% (41 votes)
When I click that link I just get the main page. The results are here. Thanks for giving bringing this to our attention.
Annals Past Poll/Survey Results
The original poll question should have read:
A patient tells you that after smoking for decades and trying dozens of times to quit without success, she finally managed to stop smoking a year ago by switching to e-cigarettes. What would you advise?
a. Switch to any of the products that didn't work before, maybe they will this time.
b. Stop using e-cigarettes, even if it means a relapse to smoking.
c. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Congratulate her on her accomplishment.
A patient tells you that after smoking for decades and trying dozens of times to quit without success, she finally managed to stop smoking a year ago by switching to e-cigarettes. What would you advise?
a. Switch to any of the products that didn't work before, maybe they will this time.
b. Stop using e-cigarettes, even if it means a relapse to smoking.
c. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Congratulate her on her accomplishment.
Ahh...the definition of insanity! (Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.)
Great post, Elaine!
I decided to submit it to AJPH as a response to the article (even though I had already submitted a longer response, not published):
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