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Serious Family Question, Need Advice Please!

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Kate51

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Seems family ties are broken fairly easily but impossible to ever fully repair. Sometimes a misunderstanding can be clarified, but usually it just gets down to personality conflicts, which rarely can be changed, only tolerated. A perpetual strain. May be some help through consentual counseling. Not easy. (the consent part!)
I had two girls, one who was a reality-denying narcisist from the time she could walk (just like her Dad), the older one always said what she thought and loved you anyway. That you could/can count on.
So fair to say that my oldest girls' 3 kids actually know me, and love and respect me as a person. No one judges anyone, we accept it all. No one is all bad or all good.
The youngest's 2 are totally removed from us and they are all removed from each other with both divorce and distance. No sense of 'family'. I can't imagine that. It broke my heart as well. Now I just hear about them on occasion, never from them.
There comes a time when you just move on. You have to put your energy and treasure into what works, and accept what doesn't, but keep a prayer in your heart for all.
When I was growing up I never gave my Mom credit for having a heart either until I looked one day after I was a Mom....there it was! It was hidden under my own selfish viewpoint. So had to do some adjustments.
Amazing how smart and loving Mom's can get as they age!
The jury is still out about kids, however.....some of them always think their Birthright is an Entitlement Program. They forget their parents are also people.
 
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Mary Kay

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I must be the most awful person in the world! If it was my son..I would grab him by the ear and shake until he told me what the hell the problem was! This being said..he is a lot taller then me (who isn't?) and out weighs me by a bunch..but he would stand there and take it.

If he isn't man enough to make time for his family..dispite the wife, who by the way can sit her happy .... at home..then it's probably a lost cause until she tires of pushing him around and starts an affair or gets a divorce.

In my opinion it's his fault for not standing up. Sorry but that's the way it is. he is valuing her over you all..that will come back to bite him because she sees it as a "win" and won't stop controlling him every way she can.

We all know husbands like this..and some of us were married to them!

There are some people who don't like anyone but their own people (my G'ma was like that) I never knew my G'pa's people until I was grown. But I knew all 200 hundred of G'ma's people! (not joking)

You need to have a long talk with him and no soft peddle. "I love you more then you will ever know and your family too. But if you don't start letting us see our grandson..stay away from us from now on, no calls, no Christmas, no nothing! I won't be treated this way, I don't deserve it. Your wife better be worth your manhood and family."

Then turn around and walk away..do not look back do not CRY! Tough love baby.

It will work or it won't..you have to decide for yourself what it's worth. If your hubby agrees let him come along..but YOU have to be the one...guilt works.
 
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Kate51

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Ooo-Hoo, so true!
A "your" kids "my" kids kind of family are awful.
You're not an awful person, and I recon your son would know darned well by now he'd have a shaking coming. (As big as he is I'd love to see that MK!) And a good kick in the pants.
Mine both would too, but the one would always say nobody loves me!
The "tough" part is usally in Mom's heart though, never gravitates to the real culprit. The real loss in when you realize your grandsons are grown and you have no idea who (or where) they really are, not at all. But then it's their loss too. Gramma's a great old girl when you get her going! Even if I don't put up with a lot of BS. My phone number is the same for 30 years, and I get calls, so I know it's working!
But really no more than that can be done, it will be whatever happens.
 

suddenly

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The thing I don't understand among all the rest is. There has been no arguments with my son or daughter in law. They just blocked our side of the family out.

We had dinners and visits in the past and talks to no avail. Calm conversations not confrontational. If it was just me maybe it might make some sense even though I have never done anything to upset her. My girls gave up on both of them, long before I did. My son and his wife claim there are no problems. So how can you solve anything with that statement. They just give me a long line of excuses why we don't see them, yet they spend a lot of time with her family. Her mother rules the roast, so to speak.

I can't put the full blame on her. My son has a part in this too.
We used to be so close before he married. He would call me daily. Now if she took my place thats ok too. The excluding us is what confuses me.
Last summer he was ill and called me nearly every day, while his wife was at work. When he got better, no more phone calls.

Whenever we are together we treat each other as always. We don't pick on him for not being around. We are the kind of family that doesn't like conflict.

I don't think I will ever know the why of this. I guess it just is. Its the not understanding that is the hardest.
 

jj2

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Well I only got through page 1 of this, but have you thought about getting to know HER family better. Maybe this could shed some light.
As for him manning up, if he hasn't by now, he probably won't. If it is his wife, a discussion may only make it worse.

Have you thought of putting together picture albums. One for your other kid(s) from birth to now---include tons of family pics. Then do one on for him and his family---I'm sure it will be lacking and obviously so.
Then, to bring home the point, do an album for each grandchild---I'm sure your son's son's album is equal lacking.
Good time to voice your regret that you don't have more memories. At this point, I'd say play underhanded and make him feel guilty as hell.

Of course, I'm in a lousy mood today, so take this advise with a grain of salt.
 

TWolf

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This is just my two cents... but if roles were reversed or it was a daughter that was exhibiting the same behavior, I'd be wondering just how abusive the relationship was. At the very least it sounds mentally / emotionally unhealthy based on his feeling that he has to sneak to call you. If this is the case, I would think that social convention would make it much harder for him to admit the situation and seek help. He may feel trapped especially with a child involved.

Of course, I could be way off base.
 

Mary Kay

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As the old saw goes..the apple doesn't fall from the tree.
I am willing to bet her mom is a pill. And as you have stated, you don't like confrontation. she makes the rules and he follows.
All I can say is fight and get in his face or you are going to how this row for the rest of your (or at least their married) life.
 

suddenly

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My advice to you is to work on your daughter-in-law. Call her and talk to her instead of your son. Don't talk about problems but instead try to foster a friendship with her. Call to ask for a recipe or advice on something and then make it a habit. Ask her to go to a spa day or shopping. Befriend her and then you will have a closer relationship with all of them. As your bond with her grows, whatever the problems were will naturally come up and you can address them.

That's my uninformed advice for what it's worth.

I have tried to do this since the very beginning. Recipes, bad idea! My son wanted me to give her a recipe for his favorite meal and I did. I think he payed dearly for that one. I even tried becoming friends with her mother. Now I do get along with her sister very well. She is totally different. But the sisters don't get along with each other, another dead end.

Nothing works. I still don't see or hear from them unless I do the calling or visiting (and I was asked not to visit long ago) If she is home my son can't talk on the phone. We used to talk while he was at work, but those conversations have to be short. Understandable.

He is and has always been a very private person. If they were having problems I doubt he would tell me or anyone. I can tell just by the way they interact at Christmas(she will give him a real dirty look) if he does something she does not approve of.

Maybe he just gave up because it just wasn't worth the flack he gets.
The illness he went through last summer was severe panic attacks. Usually these are induced by extreme stress. This is when he called every day. He missed almost 2 months of work. I am amazed he still kept his job.

It seems like I have to accept it or drive myself crazy.
I know when I have had problems with my girls, the mother daughter thing, I always knew what and why and we worked things out.

I at one time a couple of years ago had it out with him one on one. I still got no answers from him. I even told him it didn't matter how much it might hurt my feelings, just tell me. He just said there is nothing to tell.
 
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suddenly

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I really thank you all for the advise. I have done everything that has been suggested. There is just nothing more to do. I guess this has all come up because I will see him at my grandsons birthday party next week and I know it will make me sad, because his son will be scared and avoid us because he doesn't know any of us.

Again I thank all of you
Nancy
 

maureengill

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My suggestion would be to start calling him on a regular basis and asking to take your grandson out to do things. The worst they could do is say no. I'd continue to call once a week until they agree (or change their phone number).

I don't think it's fair to you or your grandson. They should give him the choice to spend time with his family.
 

glowgirl

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I at one time a couple of years ago had it out with him one on one. I still got no answers from him. I even told him it didn't matter how much it might hurt my feelings, just tell me. He just said there is nothing to tell.

Oh I feel so bad for you. My best friend cut me out of her life with no talking too, but that's not a son and I can't imagine how you must feel. Sometimes we do have to accept what we can't change and it sucks, I know. But don't drive yourself nuts if you can help it and keep reaching out. My husband always says you have to start with forgiveness in order to heal, that it is not a place where you end up. Forgiveness is where you start. I hope that helps you some. You may not be able to see them very often but you can try to forgive the loss and find some peace.
 

zomzom

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Nancy - mega hugs to you. When I read your posts, they all sounded very familiar. But, rather than it being a son, it was my own brother. We were so very close and it all started going downhill when he met his girlfriend; who became his wife. All contact with me with was strictly no no. And contact with the rest of my family was frowned upon. Very long story short ... my sister in law was diagnosed as bi polar and, in England, that diagnosis was classed as a manic depressive.

She always exhibited normal tendencies when she was with her family but a total opposite when she was around my family. It was like night and day - watching the interaction. None of my family could understand what was going on but we didn't know of her condition - it was kept a secret. And it was very frustrating for all of us, being such a close family. My brother was under so much stress and it was far easier for him to go along with her "wishes" so as to lower his stress levels. He loved her so much and wanted her to be happy - her happiness meant that he had to make sacrifices regarding his own family.

The foregoing is all in the past tense ... my sister in law eventually passed away following a botched suicide. That, in itself, is a far longer story.

I just hope that what I have shared can give you some insight as to what MAY be going on. It's just another angle that you may find helpful. Then again, it may be something completely different and I wish you the best of luck in getting to know your grandson. I totally understand where you are coming from.:wub:
 

WOW

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Wow! (not me - the situation!)

I really like MK's tough love advise but you keep saying you don't like conflict.
You can have conflict with or w/o having words, with or w/o tough love, talking, even understanding why. If you know why but the situation doesn't change, you're still going to be upset.

In really tough situations, I like to try to work AROUND the problem and when something has been brewing for as long as your predicament, I think you might find that the easiest approach.

You say you've already asked your son and got nowhere. Put that aside for a moment.

You say you want your grandchildren to get to know you. Here is what I would do(in no particular order):

I would get a journal for myself, a scrapbook, some stationary, a camera and/or video cam and a second journal.

Instead of calling, which hasn't brought you any sense of resolve, that you are able to get through to your grandchildren, I would send them greeting cards for b-days and every major and minor holiday. I would include photos/videos about your world and possibly got with trendy things such as stickers for the envelopes, based on their age.

I would journal about how it makes you feel to be pro-active, what losses you still feel and you can also snail mail with a signature required. You'll find out who is taking in the mail for each card or letter you send and if you get a reply to some but not others, assuming you'll be keeping track of dates and signed card you get back from the P.O., it might help you have a better idea if there's a pattern or which one of them is really at fault, behaviorally, IF you get replies. This would be a non-invasive way to do some detective work at the same time as making a connection with your grandchildren. They may be forbidden to reply but it would take a lot of heartlessness to deny them photos and letters/cards and I would go very slow starting with a hello card and photo of you and just signing it. Build on it from there and make photo copies of everything. The scrapbook would hold all of the copies.

The second journal, I would start when you feel back in your own skin, so to speak/not overwhelmed by a sense of loss over this. I'd journal what you want your grandchildren to know - daily. Something, if nothing breaks the ice, you have dated and can give to them when they're of age. You'll have a better idea of what to say, if anything, about their parents, once you have some signed cards from the P.O. and I'd start this a week before Christmas - keeping the status quo, will make it harder for their parents to back out of the only in-person visit you have - they won't cancel over a Christmas card. But, during that time, you can ask your grandchildren if they got it or send two separately and include a small monetary gift to not rock the boat with the signed cards. Their parents won't think twice about it. (anyone who sends something monetary through the post office wants to make sure it has some protection - after that - you're simply doing the same thing because you want to make sure the photos don't get lost in the mail, right?) --- By sending two cards (I'm kinda guessing or overlooked something - you said you have 2 grandchildren?) you have two children to ask so if one doesn't get your card, you'll know by the P.O. card who signed for it.

After Christmas it will be like a crap shoot if your grandchildren reply or not but, imho, starting to snail mail around a holiday their parents are willing to comply, would make it easier for them to say yes and harder for them to say no to adding a "please write back soon" to the first cards you mail after the New Year. What you don't want to do is buy them stationary for Christmas - it's too obvious. Kids can draw stuff and use their imagination w/ plain paper. The point being simply hearing from them a bonus to letting them know about you.

---------------------------------------------------

Depending on how that might go - worst case scenario your snail-mail is returned unopened (unlikely at Christmas time), when YOU feel comfortable with YOUR journal, write your son a letter and mail it to his place of work. Share some of the things you've discovered you feel about not having HIM in your life - I wouldn't mention his wife and if nothing gets mailed back to you, I would simply compliment him on being a fine dad to let his children see your photos. I'd actually postpone this letter until you've worked your way up to videos or possibly make a video saying what you would in a letter and include some baby photos of him. The latter might provoke a small amount of guilt but, in presenting it, tell him you thought he'd like to show his growing children (bolding because that will give him the reality that those kids won't be under parental control forever and have questions - make it easy for him to keep the door open and request his confidentiality because you feel this time(his baby pictures) is part of your former life relationship w/ him. Tell him as his mother (whether you could or couldn't do that for him is irrelevant) that you realize it is important for him as a dad, to have that opportunity as a dad. Totally non-confrontational and a gift you'd be giving to your son.

If all of that fails to turn him around, you've not only done everything you can as a parent and grand-parent, given yourself copies of your efforts but, you've just built yourself a mountain of evidence if you decide to take him to court. Love always wins - whatever you decide.

Not sure this is the kind of answer you're looking for. I'm just telling you what I would do and do with it.

Take it for what it's worth.

I hope things get better for you.
 
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PatriciafromCO

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Guess the main thing I found very distasteful was your son calling you when he had nothing else to do (when he was sick) then ditching you again... Every consider your DIL is feeding off what your son has told her about your family ... Could be the secret phone calls to you is so he (your son) don't have to explain to his wife why he saids negative things about yall, but still is/wants to be so close to you...

just my thoughts from reading.... there is only one playing both ends at their convience.....

big hugs to you for being put into this situation and not be given the respect to understand

knew I wanted to add something else for thought... if your were close to the DIL, yall would share maybe accidently tread into a conversation about stuff , keeping you and the DIL seperate and not talking would be in his benifit..
 
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BiohazardVideo

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Well, I'm not a "Wise Woman", but I was raised by one. Have you tried to take her out to lunch or dinner? My mom ironed out a strained relationship with my brothers wife like that. They went to The Olive Garden once and now it's a weekly or monthly event depending on what's going on.
My prayers are with you and your family, I just got together with my sons mother after she took off while she was pregnant with Jacob, in 2008 I went from care free bachelor to father of 3.... Talk about culture shock... lol
 

Safira

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I haven't fully read all the post's but I think I may have a different point of view.

I have a very strained relationship with my own mother. She is also very demanding and has been since before my dad was sick. Now that he's sick she is even worse. Honestly (and I'm going to sound like a horrible person) I don't really "like" my mother. But at the same time all of my extra energy right now goes to her. She calls and needs help, I have to drop my own family to help her out. At the same time I don't know when the last time my husband has talked to his side of the family. I love his family, they are all very kind and understanding people, but we don't end up seeing them or talking to them very often. I wish I could find the time to see them more, but I have to watch my mother with my father, especially since he is sick.

I'm just saying it may not be YOU or the wife. It just may be someone on the other side of the family is so demanding of their time and attention that you suffer.
 
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