FDA Regulation, Big Tobacco, and Pending Bond Defaults

[AndriaD]

So, basically, there's this agreement for BT to compensate the states for higher health care costs incurred by smokers. But the states go ahead and spend the money on whatever they damn well please, while STILL gouging smokers for higher health care costs. So now there aren't so many smokers, so there won't be any revenue to backup those bonds the fiscally-irresponsible states have floated...

AND THIS IS OUR FAULT HOW EXACTLY????????

Man, I just wanna chew nails and spit bullets at the gov't, I mean really, you show me a revolution and I WILL BE THERE!

Andria

 

[Endor]

California 'snack tax' passed in 1991, repealed in 1992

Oh yeah...I had forgotten all about that!

 

[Kent C]

So, basically, there's this agreement for BT to compensate the states for higher health care costs incurred by smokers. But the states go ahead and spend the money on whatever they damn well please, while STILL gouging smokers for higher health care costs. So now there aren't so many smokers, so there won't be any revenue to backup those bonds the fiscally-irresponsible states have floated...

AND THIS IS OUR FAULT HOW EXACTLY????????

Man, I just wanna chew nails and spit bullets at the gov't, I mean really, you show me a revolution and I WILL BE THERE!

Andria

You're welcome in my fox hole

 

[nomore stinkies]

The vaping Malitia had an article about this. Something is brewing and it smells of greed and a total disregard for smokers whose health is on the line. Oh yeah and the "children" . I predicted that the loss in revenue would produce massive taxes on the e-cigs if they were deemed tobacco products and some states are threatening just that. But the alternative would be so expensive (FDA approval for cessation) that many if not all companies would not be able to afford the governmental "weight" for testing. We are in a precarious situation. They are up to something!

So. Another point on the Follow the Money map.

We've seen several (quite a few, actually) articles pointing out the states' dependence on Master Settlement dollars as a reason they're going after ecigs, but this is the first time I'm hearing about "tobacco bonds." Another good example of how dependent the states are on tobacco revenue. Shameful.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

So. Another point on the Follow the Money map.

We've seen several (quite a few, actually) articles pointing out the states' dependence on Master Settlement dollars as a reason they're going after ecigs, but this is the first time I'm hearing about "tobacco bonds." Another good example of how dependent the states are on tobacco revenue. Shameful.

As usual, they counted their eggs before they hatched. Nobody thought that a pharmacist in China would invent a product that would have smokers stopping to the point that it was percentage points a year instead of decades. now their scrambling for a way to pay back what they borrowed on our backs as we were supposed to pay it back for them.

them, go find another cash cow.

 

[Stosh]

As usual, they counted their eggs before they hatched. Nobody thought that a pharmacist in China would invent a product that would have smokers stopping to the point that it was percentage points a year instead of decades. now their scrambling for a way to pay back what they borrowed on our backs as we were supposed to pay it back for them.

them, go find another cash cow.

Nobody thought that a pharmacist in China would invent a product that would be more effective than the NRT and drugs that they counted on being ineffective.

 

[nomore stinkies]

Interesting thoughts.
Gee who do I call to pay for my pulmonary function tests?
Just another rouse by the states to line their pockets and mishandle the money by MSA. To pay for the smokers healthcare costs? When did they ever care about us? They new the addiction factor and they kept raising taxes to "deter" us from smoking. They were banking on our addiction. Liars. All liars. Now they will screw us over again. Tobacco product? What, nicotine and VG? Damn all of those irresponsible politicians.

Same here, I haven't read the entire MSA either. But, per my understanding, the MSA was an agreement between the states and the tobacco companies to compensate them for health care costs related to smoking, including costs incurred over many previous years. This also benefited the tobacco companies, as it shielded them from future lawsuits for tobacco-related deaths (remember than when this was implemented in the late 1990's, tobacco companies were being sued right and left, asking for huge dollar amounts each).

That being said, I can't see how the states could go after e-cig companies for a separate MSA, at least not for quite some time. First, the states would have to prove damages and additional heath care costs -- that's not possible. Second, the e-cig companies would need to have a vested interest coming to the table, meaning large number of lawsuits for damages/early deaths that they would wish to shield themselves from -- which is not happening.

I think the more interesting question, which I posed in my initial post, is how this deeming impacts how e-cigs are treated with regards to the MSA when the e-cig is owned by tobacco companies that are party to the original MSA (perfect example is Blu, owned by Lorillard). That presents some interesting scenarios that could just fall into place without any MSA changes at all.

 

[AndriaD]

As usual, they counted their eggs before they hatched. Nobody thought that a pharmacist in China would invent a product that would have smokers stopping to the point that it was percentage points a year instead of decades. now their scrambling for a way to pay back what they borrowed on our backs as we were supposed to pay it back for them.

them, go find another cash cow.

No actually, we were supposed to die, and leave behind a whole new generation of smokers to carry it forward!

Andria

 

[Stosh]

No actually, we were supposed to die, and leave behind a whole new generation of smokers to carry it forward!

Andria

Cynical but realistic...

 

[AndriaD]

Cynical but realistic...

Well I watched my father die of it, a Luckies smoker since he was 12. If not for e-cigs, I'd be next in line, smoker since 13. Then my son, who didn't start till he was 18, quit now, but for who knows how long that would last, if I couldn't help him get started with e-cigs? Those heads in Washington make me just want to burn it down! To the ground!! Start all over with a whole new crop of pols to do THE PEOPLE'S BIDDING as they're supposed to!!!

Now I need a "hopping mad" icon...

Andria

 

[sonicdsl]

For the chiiiildren is just a red herring used to get the "public" in on their schemes. It's all about keeping the money flowing from tobacco excise taxes, percentage of cigarette profits to the MSA, ineffective NRT's, and treatment for illnesses directly/indirectly caused by smoking.

 

[AgentAnia]

For the chiiiildren is just a red herring used to get the "public" in on their schemes. It's all about keeping the money flowing from tobacco excise taxes, percentage of cigarette profits to the MSA, ineffective NRT's, and treatment for illnesses directly/indirectly caused by smoking.

^^^^ This says it all ^^^^

 

[AgentAnia]

I went and found this just for you

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/cartridge-mods/52430-ptb-straw-mod-ptb-made-easy.html

Thanks, classwife! I saw these tea bags mentioned in another thread several months ago and had it briefly explained, but Kirstin's pix really bring the concept home! (Also makes me realize how easy we vapers have it now... )

 

[Stosh]

Thanks, classwife! I saw these tea bags mentioned in another thread several months ago and had it briefly explained, but Kirstin's pix really bring the concept home! (Also makes me realize how easy we vapers have it now... )

I have a bunch of loose tea I can make you a real deal. The bags are long gone, wonder if PTB would work as good as the cotton or rayon....hmmm...

 

[Kent C]

I have a bunch of loose tea I can make you a real deal. The bags are long gone, wonder if PTB would work as good as the cotton or rayon....hmmm...

Dump it in Boston Harbor

 

[Endor]

For the chiiiildren is just a red herring used to get the "public" in on their schemes. It's all about keeping the money flowing from tobacco excise taxes, percentage of cigarette profits to the MSA, ineffective NRT's, and treatment for illnesses directly/indirectly caused by smoking.

I tend to be a bit of a simple man, in that I rarely believe in conspiracy theories or complex hidden agendas.

But, with the data provided in this thread, which prompted my own research followed by connecting the dots, I have to say that that Sonic sums up where my head is at right now. Well put.

 

[Endor]

Dump it in Boston Harbor

Yep. We need a return of that American spirit, one in which we didn't put up with excessive taxation and regulation. My hope is that voters eventually get fed up with (what is becoming) an oppressive government. My fear is that, when it does, it will be too little too late.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

I tend to be a bit of a simple man, in that I rarely believe in conspiracy theories or complex hidden agendas.

But, with the data provided in this thread, which prompted my own research followed by connecting the dots, I have to say that that Sonic sums up where my head is at right now. Well put.

I no longer count it as a theory after what happened here, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/576669-california-sb-648-would-define-ecigs-cigarettes-2.html#post13522728, the ANTZ showed their true colors and turned it into a fact.

 

[Jman8]

My country tis not free,
New land of mediocrity,
From Grace we strayed.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let's freely vape!

 

[AndriaD]

My country tis not free,
New land of mediocrity,
From Grace we strayed.
Land where my fathers died!
Land of the Pilgrim's pride!
From every mountain side,
Let's freely vape!

I like that, Jman, except I abhor any positive reference to "pilgrims"... those who came over here seeking religious freedom, and promptly, violently denied it to anyone who believed differently than they did. Biggest hypocrites on the damn planet. Those are our role models? NO WONDER this country is in such a mess!!! Plus the fact that those "pilgrims" were the ilk who firmly believe that if it's enjoyable, it must be BAAAAAAD. Again, our role models? NO WONDER THE ANTZ!!!

Andria