Protesting your "Verified Member" debacle!

[Fury83]

With just your name and a hometown, an identity thief can get the rest of the info he needs off the net to open lines of credit in your name, bank accounts in your name, etc... And there may be other wacko's who just want to track you down. There are 5 billion people in the world. Most are nice people like Sheriff Andy Taylor or Aunt Bee, but a small percent of them are thieves, killers, psychotics, organized crime, etc... Now ask yourself just one question: Do you really want "everyone" to have your name and address? Really?

Like was said by boog...why would a hacker need the forum if just a name and home town is all that is available? Phone book or online white pages would do the trick. Most people get their account information stolen by

A. Hack of somewhere, website or companay server, that stores lots of non public info as in SSN's and credit cards
B. Signing up for spyware...people do this more often than you would think
C. Unshredded trash
D. Social engineering

So yeah you can pick and choose but I am not too worried about my name and address, which means nothing in practice. I'd have more luck typing ECF names into various emails and institutions along with common passwords. Or using a brute force attack. From your email I could probably get much better info.

You should be more worried about companies that have your ssn and other sensitive info, they get hacked or someone could just steal it. I work in reporting, I have access to pull down about 20,000,000 million name, address, ssn#, childrens names etc in a very short duration. If you want to worry about something, worry about someone with my job who you shouldn't be trusting.

 

[Adam the Aussie]

Because there are two parties involved in every transaction, one of whom doesn't need to post anything to the classifieds.

The current set-up ensures that both the buyer and seller (or both traders) are verified.

Not quite sure I understand? So if something is listed for sale, and I'm a verified member who wants to buy that item, don't I have to post in that thread saying I'd like to purchase it? If I only have viewing access, surely I can't buy anything?

 

[Trick]

Not quite sure I understand? So if something is listed for sale, and I'm a verified member who wants to buy that item, don't I have to post in that thread saying I'd like to purchase it? If I only have viewing access, surely I can't buy anything?

No, you don't have to post. An IM works just as well.

 

[Adam the Aussie]

No, you don't have to post. An IM works just as well.

Aah, ok, I understand why I can't view the classifieds now. The site that I buy and sell on, all offers must be done in the thread, only addresses and payment info is be exchanged via PM. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[MrSmith99]

...If you want to worry about something, worry about someone with my job who you shouldn't be trusting.

I agree with everything you just said, kinda. Sometimes there is just a necessary evil, like when you apply for a job and have to fill out 5 pages of personal data including SS#. You do what you have to do. I do try to limit it as much as possible. And I do think about the larger threats you mentioned.

Did you ever see that old show called "Connections" hosted by James Burke? Each episode followed how one seemingly unrelated invention led to something completely different which led to something else. It was a fascinating show! Well, the internet is kind of like that. Say you get into an argument with a stranger on the net. He doesn't know your name because you use a made up name right? But perhaps you use a certain phrase which he finds interestingly peculiar. He searches for that phrase and finds another pseudonym who writes exactly like you on another board about the same topic. He knows that it is you. From there he finds your real name because it has been spilled onto the net, then your address. A week later your opening a letter bomb! It is very unlikely but stranger things have happened. A more likely scenario would be he would just gather a bunch of info about you and sell it on one of the hacker boards. And who knows what some crazy hacker is doing with a new spider he wrote that just gathers our personal info. Someone will do it.

Every bit of personal info you post on the net becomes another piece of the giant puzzle that is you, your credit, your health, your world. No one small piece is worth anything. But one small thing can lead to another and another until they have the whole puzzle. Incidentally, online phone books sometimes have outdated information, which is awesome for scam artists because now they have one of your previous addresses (sometimes used by credit agencies to verify you). See? One thing leads to another.

I just believe that we should worry about the small things that can add up as well as the big threats that you mentioned. We can't stop our personal information from being used some places, like banks, health care, or utility companies but we can try to limit our personal information from being used everywhere!

Connections hosted by James Burke:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series)

 

[sawlight]

If you don't like it, don't do it and deal somewhere else and live with the consequences. It's that easy!
I don't like "big brother" either, but as another poster stated, if you are that concerned, you need to get off the grid!
Speaking of which, which one are you? https://www.google.com/search?q=mrs...sugexp=chrome,mod=11&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Just sayin'.

 

[Fury83]

I agree with everything you just said, kinda. Sometimes there is just a necessary evil, like when you apply for a job and have to fill out 5 pages of personal data including SS#. You do what you have to do. I do try to limit it as much as possible. And I do think about the larger threats you mentioned.

Did you ever see that old show called "Connections" hosted by James Burke? Each episode followed how one seemingly unrelated invention led to something completely different which led to something else. It was a fascinating show! Well, the internet is kind of like that. Say you get into an argument with a stranger on the net. He doesn't know your name because you use a made up name right? But perhaps you use a certain phrase which he finds interestingly peculiar. He searches for that phrase and finds another pseudonym who writes exactly like you on another board about the same topic. He knows that it is you. From there he finds your real name because it has been spilled onto the net, then your address. A week later your opening a letter bomb! It is very unlikely but stranger things have happened. A more likely scenario would be he would just gather a bunch of info about you and sell it on one of the hacker boards. And who knows what some crazy hacker is doing with a new spider he wrote that just gathers our personal info. Someone will do it.

Every bit of personal info you post on the net becomes another piece of the giant puzzle that is you, your credit, your health, your world. No one small piece is worth anything. But one small thing can lead to another and another until they have the whole puzzle. Incidentally, online phone books sometimes have outdated information, which is awesome for scam artists because now they have one of your previous addresses (sometimes used by credit agencies to verify you). See? One thing leads to another.

I just believe that we should worry about the small things that can add up as well as the big threats that you mentioned. We can't stop our personal information from being used some places, like banks, health care, or utility companies but we can try to limit our personal information from being used everywhere!

Connections hosted by James Burke:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connections_(TV_series)

I'll check out the show

I think where we disagree is that my name and address being stolen or given to the police isn't something that concerns me. It takes a leap of faith for me to imagine someone getting it from ECF too.

I'm all for managing risk, I just don't think there is much of it here.

 

[MrSmith99]

If you don't like it, don't do it and deal somewhere else and live with the consequences. It's that easy!
I don't like "big brother" either, but as another poster stated, if you are that concerned, you need to get off the grid!
Speaking of which, which one are you? https://www.google.com/search?q=mrs...sugexp=chrome,mod=11&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Just sayin'.

As far as being off the grid, I have been playing with TOR and such. It is fun being able to see websites no one else can. But it is the wild wild west.

And as to which one is me, LOL, actually none. This is the only place I use this pseudonym. I try to change it at each site I go to. Wow, there are a lot of MRSmith's.

 

[Fury83]

As far as being off the grid, I have been playing with TOR and such. It is fun being able to see websites no one else can. But it is the wild wild west.

And as to which one is me, LOL, actually none. This is the only place I use this pseudonym. I try to change it at each site I go to. Wow, there are a lot of MRSmith's.

Tor is relatively terrifying or at least the sites most people visit with it our.

 

[MrSmith99]

I'll check out the show

I think where we disagree is that my name and address being stolen or given to the police isn't something that concerns me. It takes a leap of faith for me to imagine someone getting it from ECF too.

I'm all for managing risk, I just don't think there is much of it here.

I am not trying to say that the owners of e-cigarette-forum.com are a risk at all. The chances of anyone wanting that info much less getting it are practically nil. But at what point do you say no? What if they want your phone number because they need to "verify members" randomly by phone? Why not give it to them, they have your name and address! What could a phone number hurt anyway? What if they ask for your place of work? Is that still OK? How about your driver license number? Social? I think most people would say no to the last two. I just say no a little earlier. It is information they neither need nor will have.

 

[MrSmith99]

Tor is relatively terrifying or at least the sites most people visit with it our.

There are some terrifying sites! But not all. I kinda like Bitmit. It is an Ebay type site for Bitcoin. As far as I can see they don't allow anything untoward there. And there are a few other other sites that are OK. Not all of it is bad. You will certainly come across some weird crap! TOR is also a great way to do Google searches no one can trace. Just saying....

 

[Fury83]

I am not trying to say that the owners of e-cigarette-forum.com are a risk at all. The chances of anyone wanting that info much less getting it are practically nil. But at what point do you say no? What if they want your phone number because they need to "verify members" randomly by phone? Why not give it to them, they have your name and address! What could a phone number hurt anyway? What if they ask for your place of work? Is that still OK? How about your driver license number? Social? I think most people would say no to the last two. I just say no a little earlier. It is information they neither need nor will have.

I have lines as well. The phone call crosses the convenience line for me and likely for the site.

I think the place of work line is issue for me but might not be for some people. I have a big contract stating I can not do anything that will publicly tie the company to my point of view, I can't represent them unless on official business and I have to make a good faith effort to not even appear to do so incidentally.

As for the last two, I don't anyone wants to give that up and I don't think ECF wants the burden of being responsible for it.

 

[tumbleweed65]

LOL me if someone steals my idenity they will probably make my credit better......lmao

 

[daddytwigs]

This is the obligatory monthly thread brought to you by a new member who doesnt understand the importance of keeping current members safe from scams and con artists.

Can we just have a sticky that pops in after about a week or so of new memberships, explaining some of the finer points of this forum. That's usually where the stupid pill starts to wear off...that's when mine wore off

 

[daddytwigs]

If you don't like it, don't do it and deal somewhere else and live with the consequences. It's that easy!
I don't like "big brother" either, but as another poster stated, if you are that concerned, you need to get off the grid!
Speaking of which, which one are you? https://www.google.com/search?q=mrs...sugexp=chrome,mod=11&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Just sayin'.

6 or 9?
Lol

 

[kiwivap]

On getting verified.... have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?

That is my favorite show.

 

[BlkWolfMidnight]

Ok,
Verification requires very little, no account information can be gotten from the verification process..only to see if your verified.
As for the remainder, anything that is used to verify members can be found in your local telephone directory or online. Actually truthfully your more at risk when you use your debit card at the local supermarket then you are providing the requested information on ECF for verification. Yes your life is an open book and trust me if someone wants to dig they can find out.
On to other things of matter, verification allows the parties that are in a transaction to know that yes they do exist and the intent is a genuine one. I'd rather deal with someone that I know isn't going to run away with my information and sell it off to the higest bidder later down the line, this allows me to sleep somewhat peacefully at night.
The system at ECF is awesome, its a secure portal for those wishing to trade or sell items, its been implimented for your protection and I'm sure not because they wanted additional duties then already working to moderate ECF (Thank you ECF Mods, you'll rock).
Just my 2 cents on it all...

 

[Shy De]

I have had to go through a lot of verification for employment through out my life. First through the military when I needed security clearance and as of late, full background, fingerprints, everything as a nurse. Giving someone my email address I use for Paypal is not a big deal. Especially when they already have it. I am more comfortable buying, selling and even talking to people who have been verified as a real. I guess big brother can suck but, so can some anonymous jacka55 who wants to lace my carts with strychnine for fun.

I would rather sacrifice a bit of privacy for a bit of safety.

 

[j0ker]

Ok, so let me chime in here and if I seem a little peeved in my response, reading the "Why Become Verified" link in my sig will explain.

Do I really care if you have access to the Classifieds? Nope! Not at all.

Do I care that good members get screwed collectively out of thousands of dollars? Hell yeah! I care about our members and I take it personally if someone loses their hard earned money or have their items swindled by some low-life!

As everyone knows, when you signup on the forum, you do not have to provide any legitimate information that proves who you are, so everyone is totally anonymous and that just does not work when your are dealing with money and product transactions. It really no different than some of the sites you mentioned. The reason you aren't anonymous on these other sites, like eBay for instance, is to prevent members from being scammed. So if you scam someone on eBay, they have the tools to seek retribution.

Anyone who has went through the process of becoming verified knows that almost every bit of the information we collect is publicly available. With a little effort I could find most of what I ask for without your help but I shouldn't have to, the information should be available to us to help protect the just. Then there are some that could come on here and create a false identity, steal and leave without a trace. I bet if it were $1,000 out of your pocket you would want to have some trail to follow in attempt to get your money back or at least the person punished. If you don't care about getting your money back, I would feel you are in a minority as far as ECF is concerned.

So in conclusion, due to the fact that reasonably large amounts of money and high value products are bought and traded on a daily basis, the Classified had to evolve from being a open, uncontrolled service on the forum to a managed and more safe privileged area. So your protest is your right and our preventing your access is our right. You have ever right to disagree with our method of protecting the membership but it won't change anything. Feel free to use less secure sites in your buy/sell/trades and I wish you the best.

What you have to understand, becoming verified isn't a personal attack on you, we aren't saying you are a scammer. It's a measure to prevent scammers from joining and defrauding the members. It's also a tool to prevent those that fall off their rocker and decide to defraud members. Is it foolproof? No it isn't but in comparison to before the verified member process, it's a total success. In the 1 year since it's introduction, we've only had 1 instance of fraud. This scammer took, I think, 6 devices from our members. With the information from his verification request, we were able to provide enough pressure that the scammer broke down and returned every single device he had stolen. The previous year we had so many fraud complaints, I cannot even begin to tell you how many there were.

Do we have enough methods to become verified? Obviously not, some members have not been able to use the 4 methods we have and they have no Classifieds access. I am completely open to new methods and entertain any suggestions sent to me. Someone above mentioned calling, how exactly would that prove someone's identity? I could buy a disposable cell or maybe even just change my number the next day. Also, I have a fulltime job and I can never tell when I'll be doing verifications, so calling you at 1am would probably tick you off a little. Some of proposed scanning you driver's license, birth certificate, utility bills....etc. Scanned documents are a big no, see my driver's license below for the reason why.

Sorry if I came off being brash but it's like walking into my house and saying you don't like the way I have my furniture arranged. I would tell you, you didn't have to like they way it's arranged and you're welcome not to come in to my house.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Sorry if I came off being brash but it's like walking into my house and saying you don't like the way I have my furniture arranged. I would tell you, you didn't have to like they way it's arranged and you're welcome not to come in to my house.

Very Well Put.