NIC Bases - Flavour Differences PG vs VG

[DeepSix]

So I am starting out on the DIY route for making my own juices, and I am about to order some supplies. I prefer 50/50 blend juices and plan to mix mine at that ratio. I realize that unflavoured NIC bases can come as 100% PG, 100% VG or any blend in between. For mixing, I plan on buying either 100% VG or 100% PG NIC base at 100 mg/ml strength.

My questions are these:
What flavour difference, if any, occurs depending which type of NIC base is used (100% VG or 100% PG based)?

Which NIC base type is better for long term storage with minimal deterioration to the NIC? Or does it matter at all?
I am interested in just the bases, as in VG and PG based unflavoured NIC juices. My intent is not to create a debate on the best sources/brands of unflavoured NIC juice as I can do a search for that answer

I know I can order some small batches of each and experiment, and I plan to just that, however, I would really like to know what other experienced DIY'ers think about this, what is perferred and WHY it is preferred.

Thanks!

 

[dannyv45]

I have a great blog that will answer all your questions on PG VG and NIC. Find it here.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dannyv45/5008-throat-hit-harshness-its-all-mix.html

 

[DeepSix]

Danny, thanks for the quick response. I have read your blogs and they are very informative!

Unfortunately they do not cover the questions that I have posed.

Thanks again for the response.

 

[dannyv45]

Well I've been using wizard lab for vg/pg/nic for a while and have been very happy with them. It freezes nicely and quality is good and strictly controled.


Another good source is myfreedom smokes. It's the place I started with but they are more expensive but high quality.

RTS is another good source. I haven't tried there base supplys but have bought many flavors from them. reviews are very positive on them.

All base supplys freeze well regardless of where they are bought. If it's a question of quality then the prevoiusly mentioned 3 are all top shelf

as far as which nic base holds flavor better again the for mentioned 3 are top shelf and highly recommended. If it's in what base mixture proportions does flavoring work best again read my blog.

 

[DeepSix]

Danny, with all due respect, your blog does not answer my questions at all.

I have read all your blogs, and they are very helpful and a valuable source of information.

I have edited my initial post to hopefully reword what I am asking, and make it a little more clear.

I know what PG and VG do and how they behave/taste in a mixture.

What I am partly asking is this, and bear with me...

Say you have two 10 ml bottles of ejuice, both are 50/50 and the same flavour for the final solution but...

Solution A uses a 100% PG NIC base

Solution B uses a 100% VG NIC base

Will both juices taste identical (remember both solutions are 50/50 in the end but got there with different ratios of PG to VG).

I realize that taste is subjective, but I am sure there are some people that can tell the differences.

I am wondering what bases most people use most often, as in VG or PG for their NIC. I also realize that those people that prefer 100% VG will only buy the VG bases NIC and vice versa for those who prefer 100% PG. But for those people that mix at 50/50, which NIC base is preferred and why? Or does it matter at all and is merely personal preference?

Am I being clear in what information I am asking about? BTW, I am not trying to be condescending or argumentative, just looking for information so that I can get the proper materials to make the best juice for me.

I am going to get both types of unflavoured NIC bases and test this, but I figured that at least one other person has played with this issue and could give me some insight into their experiences.

 

[DustyZ]

Danny, with all due respect, your blog does not answer my questions at all.

I have read all your blogs, and they are very helpful and a valuable source of information.

I have edited my initial post to hopefully reword what I am asking, and make it a little more clear.

I know what PG and VG do and how they behave/taste in a mixture.

What I am partly asking is this, and bear with me...

Say you have two 10 ml bottles of ejuice, both are 50/50 and the same flavour for the final solution but...

Solution A uses a 100% PG NIC base

Solution B uses a 100% VG NIC base

Will both juices taste identical (remember both solutions are 50/50 in the end but got there with different ratios of PG to VG).

I realize that taste is subjective, but I am sure there are some people that can tell the differences.

I am wondering what bases most people use most often, as in VG or PG for their NIC. I also realize that those people that prefer 100% VG will only buy the VG bases NIC and vice versa for those who prefer 100% PG. But for those people that mix at 50/50, which NIC base is preferred and why? Or does it matter at all and is merely personal preference?

Am I being clear in what information I am asking about? BTW, I am not trying to be condescending or argumentative, just looking for information so that I can get the proper materials to make the best juice for me.

I am going to get both types of unflavoured NIC bases and test this, but I figured that at least one other person has played with this issue and could give me some insight into their experiences.

VG tends to mute flavors and also adds some sweetness and promotes more vapor production
PG Carries flavor better and offer more of a throat hit

Hopefully that is the direction that you were seeking.

 

[WillyZee]

welcome to ECF DeepSix ... once you mix your final base to 50/50 ... it shouldn't matter whether the nic started out in PG or VG.

just add the proper PG or VG that brings it to 50/50

 

[Crunktanium]

Keep in mind VG can be a bit messy to work with and requires a bit more care in handling. I prefer to mix strait VG with PG Nicotine just because it's easier to deal with that way. Also less chances of excess residue which can be dangerous with higher concentrations. Plus I often do 70/30 and having most of the PG already there just saves time. I do however keep some VG Nicotine on hand too just in case someone asks me for a shot of Vegan Holy Water.

 

[dannyv45]

Say you have two 10 ml bottles of ejuice, both are 50/50 and the same flavour for the final solution but...

Solution A uses a 100% PG NIC base

Solution B uses a 100% VG NIC base

Will both juices taste identical (remember both solutions are 50/50 in the end but got there with different ratios of PG to VG).

Now I understand what your asking.

You first have to understand that the VG and PG solutions are carriers for nicotine. The nicotine will not change it's chemical composition regardless of what carrier it's put in. The nicotine will still be nicotine so it does not matter what nicotine solution you start with if your end result is going to be a 50/50 base. You will still have equal parts of PG and VG and the nicotine chemical composition will not change.

It starts making a difference in taste when you move away from the 50/50 ratio because VG has a natural sweetness and it is thicker. So if your mix is lets say 80VG and 20PG the mix will be thicker and sweeter but the nicotine chemical composition will be the same and unaffected. It also does not affect nicotine strength. If you mixed it down to 12mg it will be 12mg regardless whether the predominent carrier is PG or VG.

Now how flavoring effects VG/PG composition is a different story. Flavoring as far as I know will not affect nicotine composition but in a way does affect pg/vg composition. Not so much in the steeped finished product but in freshly mixed product you sill notice a difference. As VG is thicker it takes longer for the flavor molecules to move through and blend or bond with the molecules of the vg solution thus the final taste is slower to arrive then if the mixture was PG. You also have to realize that PG is a better desolving agent then VG so the solid flavoring molecules will quickly disperse through the solution. Further you also have to consider the added sweetness when flavoring a high VG mix. But the final taste result after it is steeped will be the same. So I don't really agree with most that say higher VG mixes need more flavor then higher PG mixes. I believe the mix just needs more time to mature.

I hope that answers your question.

 

[blklion77]

Ive good experience with 50/50 pg/vg 60mg nice and 100% pg 100 mg nice base both from my freedom smokes . I got some nice base from totally wicked coming in. They got a 20% of coupon til Fri . I got a mixing kit w/ 72 mg nic base in pg 5 flavors of my choice 2 4oz bottles of vg a pippette and a few bottles. Also an 8oz bottle of vg for less than the kit with the code.

 

[keelalagirl55]

There is no difference in taste that I have found based on which carrier my base is in.

As for storage....well, both have had claims of being a better carrier for long term storage. Kurt (our beloved resident chemist) suggests VG as the carrier for long term storage.....others claim pg. Neither will freeze in your standard household deep freeze, so that is not gonna be an issue. In my mind VG would stand a better chance of having the least amount of change in the base. It's already thick and gets thicker in the freeze.....theoretically telling me that any chemical responses will be slowed even more. Scientifically proven or not.....I'm still a bit unclear on it

I have nic in pg, nic in vg, and nic in a 50/50 base all in storage.....and honestly, I don't see a difference. PG (due to it's consistency) is going to be much easier to deal with when measuring than VG, however. So really, it's just going to be a personal preference, imho.

 

[DeepSix]

Thanks to those whose shared their experiences and knowledge in reference to my questions. It is very much appreciated!