It is IMPORTANT to Vape in PUBLIC

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Beans

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I do vape most places openly, but if I'm indoors in a public building I keep it under wraps. I have no problem stealth vaping where I know it would be frowned apron. I spent 12 hours yesterday in a surgeons waiting room at the hospital where DH was having major work done. I excused myself every so often and vaped like a crazy person in the stair well. Was anyone hurt, offended or put at medical risk? Absolutely not and I won't apologize for it. I think we should be respectful, in all areas of life. But I always vape proud! I think it all boils down to using common sense.
 

tinajfreeman

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Why in hell would we need permission here? If you ask then you are telling people there might be something wrong with this. You don't ask permission to breathe and don't need to. From reading this, I can see that a lot of vapors are confusing respect with lack of resolve. I'm respectful myself but since vaping is harmless to them there's no need to even consider not doing it. If someone asked me to stop, and that hasn't happened yet in a year of vaping wherever I want, I would comply but not without an explanation of why their concerns aren't based upon reality.

So it's great to see Sailorman and others who are willing to at least not treat this as if we are doing something wrong. It's one thing to have our rights trampled on but if you're willing to trample on your own without even any provocation then that's pretty sad. People can do whatever they want, do all their vaping in the can, but some of us have the courage to stand up for what is right and some do not.

Same here, I don't see the need to ask permission when I am not doing anything that is even the slightest bit wrong or dangerous to others. I have only been asked to stop once, but when I showed them I wasn't smoking they said OK. I think asking permission just implies there might be something wrong with it, which is not the message we want to send.

In my opinion.
 

tinajfreeman

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Let's get one thing clear .. my comments relate to my experience and my experience only .. and I have never felt PV use was "wrong" or whatever term anyone would like to use .. you see, where I live, local law enforcement agencies are required to enforce the anti-smoking law .. and until you've actually had someone call the law on you, which I have had happen, you miss the context of my comments .. while PV use is not illegal by any means, the perception of blowing smoke can and does trigger a response in a portion of the population .. I decided after my incident that it was simply not worth the hassle involved .. thus, I abide by the analog smoking rules .. so now that you have the context of my experience ..

Now, if I were a young man, perhaps I'd start my own PV movement .. but I'm not ..

I respect those that use a PV where ever and when ever .. I don't believe it's my job to educate the public for various reasons .. and I'd expect those on ECF to especially respect my personal choices ..

With that context, I can certainly see why you have found it not worth the hassle to vape in public. Fortunately I haven't run into that.

For me, knowing that spreading this info is saving lives and health...my group includes my mom AND my best friend...makes it worth the risk. But I haven't had to deal with cops yet, either. Except airport security, that shrugged it off once I explained what it was and that it was (for me) a stop smoking inhaler.
 

wv2win

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Yep, it does make you wonder .. personally, I'm not interested in giving a mini-seminar impromptu whenever the issue comes up .. living in State with a ban on smoking everywhere indoors pretty much other than private homes .. when it looks liike smoke, folks think it's smoke .. that's a natural reaction .. I'd spend half my life explaining and then a large portion of the populace would still not get it and would not care ..

So, I abide by the rule of common courtesy ..

I also abide by the same rule, rather than approaching mgmt in a public area....
I also live in the same kind of state...
My wife, 4 kids, and myself are very greatfull that somebody took the extra 5 mins to give an "impromptu seminar". We all believe it helped save my life, or at least add years on the end. So i will take the extra 5 mins every chance I get

There are people who are narcissistic and care only about themselves and not the community and then there are people like yourself who have been helped by others, are concerned about those in their social community and want to give back. We can only hope there are more like you, kwalka, if we have any hope of shaping a positive perception of vaping within the general population.
 

wv2win

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Let's get one thing clear .. my comments relate to my experience and my experience only .. and I have never felt PV use was "wrong" or whatever term anyone would like to use .. you see, where I live, local law enforcement agencies are required to enforce the anti-smoking law .. and until you've actually had someone call the law on you, which I have had happen, you miss the context of my comments .. while PV use is not illegal by any means, the perception of blowing smoke can and does trigger a response in a portion of the population .. I decided after my incident that it was simply not worth the hassle involved .. thus, I abide by the analog smoking rules .. so now that you have the context of my experience ..

Now, if I were a young man, perhaps I'd start my own PV movement .. but I'm not ..

I respect those that use a PV where ever and when ever .. I don't believe it's my job to educate the public for various reasons .. and I'd expect those on ECF to especially respect my personal choices ..


I definitely respect your "right" to have a different opinion. But I don't have to like or respect your opinion or believe it is one that is helpful to vaper's in general.

As a group, where I live, I have provided more information (by their request) to police and sheriff's deputies than any other sub-group as to how to buy a good PV. Many in this sub-group smoke and want to find a safe, effective alternative. As they have pointed out to me, they need to be generally physically fit. They have also told me they have much better things to do that take notice of people vaping. If I had to guess, if someone ever called the police on me about my vaping, it would be because I teed them off in some other way. Fortunately, that has never happened.
 

wv2win

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I do vape most places openly, but if I'm indoors in a public building I keep it under wraps. I have no problem stealth vaping where I know it would be frowned apron. I spent 12 hours yesterday in a surgeons waiting room at the hospital where DH was having major work done. I excused myself every so often and vaped like a crazy person in the stair well. Was anyone hurt, offended or put at medical risk? Absolutely not and I won't apologize for it. I think we should be respectful, in all areas of life. But I always vape proud! I think it all boils down to using common sense.

We have an RN in the family and she has told me that in her hospital vaping is allowed in patients rooms and even in the delivery room of the maternity ward. Some hospitals are now even providing disposable PV's to smokers who are in the hospital several days instead of the patch.
 

tinajfreeman

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We have an RN in the family and she has told me that in her hospital vaping is allowed in patients rooms and even in the delivery room of the maternity ward. Some hospitals are now even providing disposable PV's to smokers who are in the hospital several days instead of the patch.

What REALLY needs to happen is to get doctors on board with promoting PV's for harm reduction...unfortunately we don't have the pull of the big pharma reps.
 

wv2win

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What REALLY needs to happen is to get doctors on board with promoting PV's for harm reduction...unfortunately we don't have the pull of the big pharma reps.

I printed out material from CASAA for my doctor to read and vaped for him. He now recommends vaping to his smoking patients and told me since I first introduced him to vaping, he now has 7 other patients who vape. My dentist ask me to provide him advice and information to give to his brother-in-law who smokes.

Just don't send your doctor to ECF. They have no need to wade though all of our chatting. CASAA is the place to send doctors and dentist for information.
 

sailorman

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This has not been my experience .. and at my age, I prefer to not have my blood pressure raised by confrontation .. my Cardiologist feels the same way ...



Your opinion .. many of us feel differently .. myself, I believe the Industry as a whole needs to mount a campaign to educate the public .. with literally hundreds of vendors and more springing up daily, certainly it's in their best interest .. I don't believe a seismic shift in perception will happen by each of us individually "fighting the good fight" as you suggest .. I'm not interested in whipping out my PV and happily blowing vapor anywhere and everywhere .. and yes, I'll agree that one reason is years of anti-smoking activity and the stigma associated with being an analog smoker .. absolutely .. however, that's not the only reason ..

So, we'll agree to disagree over PV Use in Public .. no need to reply as I'm as bull headed as you are and you won't sway my opinion, so save yourself some typing time ..

Well, don't you love how easy it is to argue a point when you get to misstate it yourself? "Happily blowing vapor anywhere and eveywhere"..Nice turn of phrase. Got any more in that straw man factory of yours?

Don't forget, it's the NON-smokers who are instrumental in this. The industry has nothing to gain by a public education campaign that they couldn't achieve by simple advertising. The tobacco companies did just fine in the face of decades of anti-smoking campaigns. The e-cig industry will as well. E-cigs won't be outlawed by the Feds. It makes little difference to them if you hide in your closet to vape. Among smokers, the word will get around despite vaping being banned everywhere but private residences. As long as they're not treated worse than analogs, the upside of a PR campaign aimed at the general public is insignificant.

I seriously doubt you are significantly older than me, so save the "I'm an old man" shtick. My old fart self has personally either been instrumental or influential in setting the vaping policy of at least a dozen public accommodations. And that was without even trying. Over the next months, how many people, smokers and non-smokers alike, will be introduced to vaping because of that? How much immunity will that provide against the propaganda of the antis?

Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has. ~ Margaret Mead

And all that is beside the point anyway. No one is saying you have to become an activist for your own interests. By slinking around in the shadows, you already are an activist; against yourself.
 
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kwalka

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Sailorman, do you really get off on being rude to people or are you simply unaware of it?


Originally Posted by Maestro

Sailorman, do you really get off on being rude to people or are you simply unaware of it?
Oh I think he is Aware of It.

Do you 2 get off on following sailorman around just to attack his valid points, or are you unaware of it? For days I've been disgusted several times at how much good debate is lost to him defending his valid points just because you dont agree.
Sailorman definetly does not need anyone to come to his defense as he will intellectually rip you apart. I just have had enough and felt the need to put my 2 cents in.
 

sailorman

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Let's get one thing clear .. my comments relate to my experience and my experience only .. and I have never felt PV use was "wrong" or whatever term anyone would like to use .. you see, where I live, local law enforcement agencies are required to enforce the anti-smoking law .. and until you've actually had someone call the law on you, which I have had happen, you miss the context of my comments .. while PV use is not illegal by any means, the perception of blowing smoke can and does trigger a response in a portion of the population .. I decided after my incident that it was simply not worth the hassle involved .. thus, I abide by the analog smoking rules .. so now that you have the context of my experience ..

Now, if I were a young man, perhaps I'd start my own PV movement .. but I'm not ..

I respect those that use a PV where ever and when ever .. I don't believe it's my job to educate the public for various reasons .. and I'd expect those on ECF to especially respect my personal choices ..


That's just sad. It must be horrible living your life in fear of someone misinterpreting your every action as something illegal. Do you have warrants out against you or something? Are you on the FBI wanted list? I always wondered how it would be to have to live life in mortal fear of any random brush with the law, like a notorious bank robber on the run.

Where I live, local law enforcement agencies are required to enforce the anti-smoking law too. But "responding" doesn't mean they come screeching up, guns drawn, citation books out, any time some hysterical ninny makes a phone call. Hell, around here, it's all you can do to get them to respond to a burglary on the same day it happens. They'd much rather take a phone report. They have to enforce the anti-smoking laws when they see a violation or a complaint is lodged by a responsible party. And they are trained well enough to know that vaping is not smoking.

I'm pretty sure that if I vaped a cig-lookalike, acted like I was smoking, tried to hide it and couldn't or wouldn't take 10 seconds to explain that I wasn't smoking -- well, there would be a risk of some random stranger reporting me, if they were stupid enough to think the police would show up for something so frivolous. Since I wasn't smoking, the local lawmen wouldn't really do anything of course, except maybe snicker under their breaths about the idiot who wasted their time. But, I'm pretty sure that they're not required to come rushing to the scene of public smoking incidents reported by random bystanders. Maybe where you live they have nothing else to do, (not a good place for a wanted man to hide out.) A proprietor wouldn't report me because they would know I'm not smoking. If he didn't know, he wouldn't be stupid enough to call the law without first approaching me and asking me to stop and/or leave.

So I'm curious. What kind of fascist place do you live in, where some random stranger can call the law and demand they personally respond to a complaint of smoking in a public building? What manager or proprietor would call the police without confronting you first? I was under the impression that Mayberry was in N.C. The more I think about it, the more I'm inclined to call BS on that story. If someone in authority called the law on you after they confronted you, then maybe. But unless you have a bunch of Barney Fife's working in your Sheriff's dep't....... "Nip it. Nip it. Nip it in the bud, Andy"
 
Sure you may get some “Converts”, but what if the number of Converts are outweighed by the number of people who Don’t want to have people Vaping in Non-Smoking Areas?

Impossible. One person becoming free of the risks and effects of smoking outweighs even the most draconian--but entirely unenforceable--smoke-free tobacco ban. If smoking bans actually helped people stop smoking, they might be justified.

There is no reason to be so afraid of an impending banhammer coming from the almighty so-and-so's at the FDA et al, that you hide in the corner and basically give the ANTZ exactly what they want without having to try to pass a stupid law and risking being exposed as the corporate tools they are. Remember that every time one of these ban attempts pop up, win or lose the battle, it's still an opportunity to educate people about tobacco harm reduction...and that's a win every time.
 

sailorman

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Sailorman, do you really get off on being rude to people or are you simply unaware of it?

Rude is misstating what other people have said in order to win a point in a debate. Rude is injecting non-sequiturs into a debate. Rude is not calling people out for it. Rude is not the the opposite of gullible or obsequious.

I admit to being a tad abrasive at times, but rude? No. There's a difference.
 

zoiDman

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Impossible. One person becoming free of the risks and effects of smoking outweighs even the most draconian--but entirely unenforceable--smoke-free tobacco ban. If smoking bans actually helped people stop smoking, they might be justified.

There is no reason to be so afraid of an impending banhammer coming from the almighty so-and-so's at the FDA et al, that you hide in the corner and basically give the ANTZ exactly what they want without having to try to pass a stupid law and risking being exposed as the corporate tools they are. Remember that every time one of these ban attempts pop up, win or lose the battle, it's still an opportunity to educate people about tobacco harm reduction...and that's a win every time.

Hey I'm all for Education.

I just don't believe in performing Education by Vaping in a Indoor Non-Smoking area. I think the potential of Pissing Off More People than Educating Exist.

Perhaps you and sailorman are Right. Who can say they know for sure? That is why I made Post #15.
 

tinajfreeman

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Hey, I meet so many people who either hadn't heard of them, or thought it was one of those fly-by-night internet gimmicks. People are VERY interested when they see that it really is clean vapor and they hear that it really works! I know of at least a dozen people that have ordered them after talking to me, and who knows how many strangers did also.

I truly believe every time a smoker takes interest, or a non-smoker buys one for his loved one, it may very well extend one more life, or at least improve someone's health.

To me, that is worth an occasional awkward moment.
 

tinajfreeman

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Hey I'm all for Education.

I just don't believe in performing Education by Vaping in a Indoor Non-Smoking area. I think the potential of Pissing Off More People than Educating Exist.

Perhaps you and sailorman are Right. Who can say they know for sure? That is why I made Post #15.

Interesting. I have never once encountered someone who was even slightly upset, much less ...... off. Has this happened to you often? Or is it just something you are afraid might happen?

Just curious.
 

sailorman

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Impossible. One person becoming free of the risks and effects of smoking outweighs even the most draconian--but entirely unenforceable--smoke-free tobacco ban. If smoking bans actually helped people stop smoking, they might be justified.

There is no reason to be so afraid of an impending banhammer coming from the almighty so-and-so's at the FDA et al, that you hide in the corner and basically give the ANTZ exactly what they want without having to try to pass a stupid law and risking being exposed as the corporate tools they are. Remember that every time one of these ban attempts pop up, win or lose the battle, it's still an opportunity to educate people about tobacco harm reduction...and that's a win every time.

This is a point a lot of us miss. The vast majority of smoking bans were never the result of grassroots demand in the first place. They resulted from an organized, orchestrated, well funded campaign by the ANTZ. The vast majority of people really didn't care one way or the other. They were trained to care by propaganda and fear tactics. Before ANTZ got their machine cranked up, the majority of non-smokers were content with smoking areas in restaurants, smoking in bars, smoking policies by consensus in the workplace. The whole anti-smoking movement was astroturfed into being.

Now, 30-40 years later, here we are again. Most people are indifferent to public vaping. They're even more indifferent than they were about public smoking in 1950. But the ANTZ infrastructure is lubed up, gassed up, cranked up and gaining momentum. Compared to what it had to do over the last 30 years, crushing e-cigs will be but a speed bump for them.

The only thing that will stop them, or even slow them down, is public awareness. The industry isn't going to do it. The government SURE isn't going to do it. The only effective defense to an orchestrated disinformation campaign is word of mouth; making something "common knowledge". There was no industry push against the "R..fer Madness" campaign of the 1930's and 40's, yet nearly everyone with an I.Q. above a button knew then, and knows now, that it was nonsense. Consequently, it was never able to gain enough traction to succeed in it's most draconian goals. Why? Because enough people had enough balls to call it out for the BS it was.

If we wait for industry to come to the rescue, we'll have a long wait. The tobacco industry, with their billions, was impotent against the ANTZ. The individual crusader for smoking rights had little concrete and comprehensible justification for his own position in the matter. We have huge advantages over them. We ARE doing something that doesn't harm anyone or offend reasonable people, that can be easily explained to the indifferent, and that can be beneficial for millions. Smoking rights activists never had that advantage. We do, and we shouldn't be wasting it by hiding out in smoking areas.
 
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