IMPORTANT - email from FDA to a supplier.

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Mohave

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While any and all health/safety research on various e-cigarette products is welcomed, those who advocate an e-cigarette ban first want the product banned and then to be allowed back on the market as a smoking cessation aid (like NRT gum, lozenges and skin patches) only after multimillion dollar double blind prospective clinical studies (that compare e-cigarettes with placebo and/or already approved NRT product) conclusively find that e-cigarettes are effective smoking cessation aids. And of course, it would take several more years for these studies to be conducted.

Those who want to ban e-cigarettes ADAMANTLY OPPOSE allowing e-cigarettes to be marketed to smokers as alternatives to cigarettes, and they EVEN MORE ADAMANTLY OPPOSE allowing e-cigarettes (or any smokefree tobacco products) to be truthfully marketed to smokers as less hazardous alternatives to cigarettes.

These abstinence only prohibitionists even oppose allowing NRT products (gums, lozenges and skin patches) to be marketed to smokers as less hazardous alternatives to cigarettes.



(and they'll continue to dismiss all other research, as they've done with Laugesen's studies on Ruyan products) research
...For some anti-smoking groups the aim is prohibition, a tobacco free world. Anything that a) Looks like smoking or b) is asscoiated with tobacco or c) makes smokers lives easier is instantly rejected...
Let me try to carry that through and get more specific, in a personally meaningful way, on some of what I think the consequences would be of part of what Bill Godshall and Westcoast2 have described, as I believe I understand the matter:

Under the position adopted by some of the most politically potent anti-tobacco groups, if e-cigs (and any other potential alternatives) were to be permitted at all, they would be subject to an onerous pre-market approval process (and this by the way is something not routinely applied to most things we consume in the absence of particular reason to do so outside of the particular category of pharmaceutical treatments and medical devices) which would almost certainly prevent any practical possibility of them ever being available, regardless of what any actual benefits or risks might be.

Further, in the unlikely event they actually somehow were successfully put through a pre-market approval process, either under the proposed H.R. 1256 FDA legislation (as currently written) or through the extremely elaborate expensive "new drug application" pre-market pharmaceutical process, the resulting product would be designed to be nearly useless to almost everyone here. As strictly a "smoking cessation" nicotine replacement aid it would be dosage regulated to a "non-addictive" level which could be no more effective than the gum or lozenges, would be intentionally unsatisfying and undesireable for regular continued use, and prescribed for temporary short-term use only.

In other words, designed and required to be worthless and unappealing to those seeking a continuing alternative to regular smoking. A product "studied" and approved in this manner for this purpose must be: Something you do not like; and something which cannot provide ongoing satisfaction to you. By design and requirement of treatment protocol.

And that is only if it miraculously got through a pre-market review, which is exceptional to require for most things we consume for the excellent reason that most of what we use could never have existed if such a thing was a-priori assumed to be necessary, and the enormous necessary regulatory apparatus would exceed the productive capacity of this or any nation. It is not normally how we do things for most consumable products (outside of the specific category of drugs and devices for treatment of illness) and never could be.

I do not know what all components of all possible potential risks of this product might be (along with most things I and everyone else uses every day) and I think it is sensible and desirable to advocate study of that, but to do so through the mechanism of either a requirement for an FDA "new drug approval" process or a process as currently envisioned by HR1256 is nothing but a backdoor permanent ban, solely because of a superficial resemblance to the very thing it is replacing, for the irrational emotional and public relations satisfaction of some health lobby groups which are unhinged from reasonable consideration of actual public policy health consequences.

What we are dealing with is a reincarnation of the WCTU (Women's Christian Temperance Union) of 1920, minus the "W" and the "C."

EDIT to add:
Mohave said:
“Studies published in 2003 by Joseph DiMasi and colleagues estimated an average cost of approximately $800 million to bring a new drug to market,”[1][2] “while a 2006 study estimated the cost to be anywhere from $500 million to $2 billion.”[3]

“By 1998, it took an average of 7.3 years from the date of filing to approval.”[4]

[1]DiMasi J. Pharmacoeconomics 20 Suppl 3: 1–10.
[2]DiMasi J, Hansen R, Grabowski H J Health Econ 22 (2): 151–85.
[3]Adams C, Brantner V. Health Aff (Millwood) 25 (2): 420–8.
[4]Regulation and Firm Size: FDA Impacts on Innovation. Rand Journal of Economics 21, no. 4: 497–517
 
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Charlie_Russo

Full Member
Apr 23, 2009
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Greetings….

Writing to ask if anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area would be interested in being interviewed for a short news video I am putting together on the topic of e-cigarettes and the pending legislation that they are facing.

I will be conducting interviews over the next week and I am open to hearing any and all testimony from e-cigarette users. I've already gotten some very articulate perspectives from some worthwhile sources and I would like to add to that with more first hand accounts regarding use of the products. Although this is a freelance project, I am speaking with some editors now for this to run as a 3-5 minute video piece on a relevant news website.

Please get in touch if you have any interest. I'm happy to set up a time and location that works well for all involved.

Thanks,

Charles Russo
charlierusso23 at gmail dot com
www charlierusso dot com
 
Nicotine is in the same class as the stimulant Caffeine...

Is a coffee maker a drug delivery system???

Or a coffee mug for that matter?

Face it, they don't want these things to be legal or promoted because they stand to lose billions if we all quit smoking tabacco. They pretend their taxes and additional charges placed on cigarettes is incentive for us to quit and mask their control in concern, but they know that an addict will do/pay anything for their fix. They rely on us continuing to smoke and if e-cigs become popular and smokers start to switch over...
 

Palmetto

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 21, 2009
174
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USA
Nicotine is in the same class as the stimulant Caffeine...

Is a coffee maker a drug delivery system???

Or a coffee mug for that matter?

Face it, they don't want these things to be legal or promoted because they stand to lose billions if we all quit smoking tabacco. They pretend their taxes and additional charges placed on cigarettes is incentive for us to quit and mask their control in concern, but they know that an addict will do/pay anything for their fix. They rely on us continuing to smoke and if e-cigs become popular and smokers start to switch over...

Hey, Brooklyn, you're right on target.
 

rock

Full Member
Feb 23, 2009
63
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How could they ban it if there is no nicotine, that's not legal! They are corrupt politicians who want this banned and must be getting paid under the table by the Tobacco companies and also Obama must be worried about his New Cigarette Tax Revenue going into a downward Spiral. Guess what, I will make my own e-cig and juice if they try to ban it.

They want you to smoke Tobacco so the hospitals make Big Bucks and you will die faster to lower the population.

Please don't tell me not to be nasty, I am tired if being nice and getting nowhere with these CROOKS
 

vaportiger

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Feb 17, 2009
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66
B'ham, AL
If nicotine addition is an illness than it would fall under the "ADA" meaning work places must make accommodations for us to control our disease and can not fire use foir smoking or refuse to hire us. All public buildings, including restaurants, theaters, apartments and many other would have to make accommodations just like wheelchair access. The FDA and Government are opening a can of worms if they keep this up. A good attorney could make a nice retirement with this one case. Damn I wish I had majored in something else. I will be writing letters to all my congress"men" tommorow and attorney general, or maybe hire a lawer and join a class action suit for discrepanating against smokers since 1992 when the ADA law went into effect.:D
 

ltitus

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May 3, 2009
2
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64
Wichita, Ks
I am new, first post, I am very interested in the legal/legislative process affecting this product:
When I first discovered the electronic cigarette I read somewhere there were a couple of legislators using the product, which was how Lautenberg became aware of it. Does anyone know who these senators/reps were? Perhaps we could prompt them to rally for support????
 

sherid

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ECF Veteran
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May 25, 2008
2,266
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If nicotine addition is an illness than it would fall under the "ADA" meaning work places must make accommodations for us to control our disease and can not fire use foir smoking or refuse to hire us. All public buildings, including restaurants, theaters, apartments and many other would have to make accommodations just like wheelchair access. The FDA and Government are opening a can of worms if they keep this up. A good attorney could make a nice retirement with this one case. Damn I wish I had majored in something else. I will be writing letters to all my congress"men" tommorow and attorney general, or maybe hire a lawer and join a class action suit for discrepanating against smokers since 1992 when the ADA law went into effect.:D
It seems to me that the recent FLA case where the widow sued BT for her husband's death based upon his ADDICTION to cigarettes and won sets the precedent for the ADA classification. I would love to see that applied to the fascists who refuse to hire smokers or fire smokers who are already employed by the company. It's a matter of time and a good class action lawyer.
 

silverfox

Full Member
Apr 20, 2009
39
1
58
Burlington,WI.
I am new, first post, I am very interested in the legal/legislative process affecting this product:
When I first discovered the electronic cigarette I read somewhere there were a couple of legislators using the product, which was how Lautenberg became aware of it. Does anyone know who these senators/reps were? Perhaps we could prompt them to rally for support????

I dont have the actual quote or article, but from what i have read, Obama has one himself, and the Republican house leader Baynor has one as well, so i kinda hope this doesnt become a partisan argument...i was under the impression that there where about 20+ congress-persons who are using them IN congress...
 

need_2quit

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 5, 2009
336
1
usa
HR1256 is nothing but a backdoor permanent ban, solely because of a superficial resemblance to the very thing it is replacing,

Like the toy guns banned b/c they look like the real thing. In the case of e-cigs, totally irrational. How many kids sucked on those candy cigs at the shore became smokers?

At the current price of tobacco, kids will smoke weed before they'll take up cigarettes. Cigarettes have been politically incorrect since the late 70's. Not a motivation for young ppl to start, because it "looks" like a cigarette.
Most of those kids are still .....ing for their parents to quit and they get their tech fix through other avenues available.

The paranoia in government and special interest groups in this country runs too deep to cure. We are a minority and they could care less what we think. I really do hope we can do some good, but the Chinese aren't going to fund studies and the few USA suppliers won't have the funds to do so.

My motto is to fly under the radar and let the rest of society do their own thing.
 

Kate51

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Mar 27, 2009
3,031
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Argyle Wi USA
The only problem with "flying under the radar" is that soon than later, the radar is going to pick up on another "controlled substance" i.e. NICOTINE. Everyone whose interest lies in these "new" devices MUST get at least aware of the progress our self-righteous exclusive government is making here and now. A lot of people are trying to fight this but as with the gov't "stimulus" package, they have taken on a mantle that is practically impervious to the little people they are trying to rule. I do mean this sincerely, you are looking at socialism in the baby stages, we won't see it till it's full grown. Think it's bad now??? HA. Wake up, watch, and do something, even if it's letters to your representatives, introduce yourself!!
And then get behind the people who are trying to stop this kind of gov't control "for our own good" kind of politics. Ok, I said it now. Be it also said, I HATE politics. I gotta go smoke now, I'm getting a headache
 
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