Ignorant question regarding menthol

[bombastinator2]

Funny, I've never heard of a plant called "menthol".

According to Wikipedia:
Menthol is an organic compound, more specifically a monoterpenoid, made synthetically or obtained from the oils of corn mint, peppermint, or other mints.

Ok. So mint then. Maybe eucalyptus too. I somehow vaguely remember eucalyptus as being somehow associated. In any case there are crops planted that are destined to be turned into menthol. Mint is a lot easier to grow for one thing. To the point that it’s difficult to make it NOT grow.

 

[bombastinator2]

If you search google, you'll find that menthol is naturally derived from the Mint family of plants. Menthol isn't really a flavor., tho. It doesn't taste like the mint family of plants that contain it, it's merely the part that provides the cooling sensation. I'm sure that in high concentration you may actually get a flavor which would probably not be great lol, but in normal concentrations it's just a feeling.

Like Coolada and Koolada. They have no real "flavor" but they provide that cooling menthol sensation to your juice. I don't know if either of those actually use menthol. I have a bottle of Coolada and all the label lists for ingredients is "Propylene glycol USP and flavoring substances"

As for methol cigs, they ain't going anywhere, like the last 500 times this ban was supposed to happen. If it does happen on the 501st time, my link above shows (as well as other sources) that big tobacco is already fixing to use synthetic menthol to skirt the ban, which would likely take another 501 attempts to get that banned. lol

As for a general menthol ban, I found nowhere in google that mentioned anything about menthol being banned in general so I'm not sure where that come from.

I saw an article with a photo captioned as Biden trying to decide whether to ban menthol.

 

[bombastinator2]

Since you won't take Wikipedia's word for it, let's try Encyclopedia Britannica:
Menthol, terpene alcohol with a strong minty, cooling odour and taste. It is obtained from peppermint oil or is produced synthetically by hydrogenation of thymol.

Oh, and for laughs:

Amazon.com : menthol crystals

www.amazon.com

I replied when that thing was not there. Or I mistook it for a signature or something. I don’t recall. In any case it was not considered. It very likely comes from mint now. It the past it might have originally come from eucolyptus as I vaguely remember the two being associated, but that and $5 will get you a coffee at starbuck’s.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

I've only seen menthol bans referring to cigarettes.

I agree. But it seems that this thread was about menthol cig bans and some sort of general ban on menthol, Maybe I'm wrong. Regardless, I haven't seen evidence of a general ban on menthol.

"Menthol" is such an ill used term in marketing. That's why all the variations and confusion as to what it is, but menthol is a thing that can be defined scientifically. But to the large portion of the public, "menthol" and "mint" are the same thing, but really it's not.

 

[bombastinator2]

It occurs to me that it may have been a proposed mass ban that died. The annotation I saw was undated. I assumed it was current but it may not have been.

 

[bombastinator2]

I agree. But it seems that this thread was about some sort of mass ban on menthol, Maybe I'm wrong.

"Menthol" is such an ill used term in marketing. That's why all the variations and confusion as to what it is, but menthol is a thing that can be defined scientifically. But to the large portion of the public, "menthol" and "mint" are the same thing, but really it's not. The stuff has been around a long time. Longer than the modern industrial chemistry that would be needed to synthesize something from something else.

-delete please. Double post-

 

[bombastinator2]

I agree. But it seems that this thread was about some sort of mass ban on menthol, Maybe I'm wrong.

"Menthol" is such an ill used term in marketing. That's why all the variations and confusion as to what it is, but menthol is a thing that can be defined scientifically. But to the large portion of the public, "menthol" and "mint" are the same thing, but really it's not.

If it is often confused then could mint be a substitute? When I see “menthol” for sale it is a clear spiky crystal not unlike MSG, and directed to be dissolved in alcohol

 

[bombastinator2]

It was about me wondering if there was a safer form of “coolant” than menthol. I was wondering it because of that caption though. I can easily see a limitation on cigarettes affecting e-cigarettes too. E-cigarettes would probably have to be specifically omitted since they’ve been labeled “tobacco products” even though that’s only sort of accurate. I suppose if one did come about it would have to use a term like “pre-packaged cigarettes” or some such, at which point all the menthol smokers would just switch to roll-your-owns, so I think it’s unlikely. If they used the term “tobacco” though to get both pre-rolled and pouch tobacco it could hit e-cigs too.

 

[bombastinator2]

I remember black-and-white photos of eucalyptus groves in Australia with a reference to cigarettes. It could be that they figured out how to do it using mint which is easier to grow. My memory sucks though. It’s not impossible I’m hallucinating the whole thing. Googling about I am seeing several products that use both eucalyptus and menthol, which implies I may have.

 

[Rossum]

As for methol cigs, they ain't going anywhere, like the last 500 times this ban was supposed to happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't a couple of states already banned them?

 

[ShowMeTwice]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't a couple of states already banned them?

Yes. California and Massachusetts.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

State governments in California and Massachusetts have already banned menthol cigarettes, along with dozens of counties across the USA. But industry is responding to the bans with new non-menthol versions of traditional menthol brands. These contain WS-3, a menthol analogue.

 

[Rossum]

Yes. California and Massachusetts.

I wonder how effective such bans are in terms of reducing smoking among people who preferred menthol cigs?

 

[bombastinator2]

Yes. California and Massachusetts.

Some cities too

 

[bombastinator2]

I wonder how effective such bans are in terms of reducing smoking among people who preferred menthol cigs?

My suspicion is not at all. I was looking at flavoring stuff and kept running into various how to make your own directions. There were masses of them

 

[ShowMeTwice]

I wonder how effective such bans are in terms of reducing smoking among people who preferred menthol cigs?

I don't know.

Just guessing, I suspect some will switch to non-menthol. Those who live close to state borders will probably make the trek to other states to get their menthol cigs.

Perhaps, and hopefully, it will drive some to vaping. Maybe some will quit altogether.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't a couple of states already banned them?

I dunno. This thread's about the federal level, tho. But if you can find out which states (NY seems to ring a bell), try to find out of they are actually off the market or if they are selling menthol cigs with synthetic menthol instead.

After all, if BT is already looking into synthetic to skirt a possible federal ban as the article states, then they must know it's profitable to spend money on it. Comes down to the wording in the legislation.

I can see big tobacco using synthetic menthol and instead of calling them "menthol", they call them something else - like "green label" - and get away with it.

I hated menthol when I was a smoker, but I've smoked many when I had no regular cigs on me. A smoke's a smoke. I suppose most menthol hardcore smokers would do the same.

 

[Rossum]

I can see big tobacco using synthetic menthol and instead of calling them "menthol", they call them something else - like "green label" - and get away with it.

The catch, at least in principle, is if they change anything, and certainly if the introduce a new brand, they need to go through the PMTA process.

I hated menthol when I was a smoker, but I've smoked many when I had no regular cigs on me. A smoke's a smoke. I suppose most menthol hardcore smokers would do the same.

I started out smoking menthols. I lived in West Philly at the time, and menthols were popular there. Also, they were what my mother smoked (Benson & Hedges menthol, to be specific).

Since I was used to them, I pretty much hated non-menthols on those rare occasions when I bummed one from somebody. Then somewhere between 15 and 20 years into my 36 year smoking career, there was a quit attempt. As expected, I was climbing the walls, and decided to cheat with some non-menthols. I figured there was no way I'd smoke very many of those, 'cause they were nasty! Well guess what? A week or two later, I was smoking just as may non-menthols every day as I'd smoked menthols previously, and I never went back to menthol, not even with vape.

 

[ShowMeTwice]

36 year smoker here too, I started with Kool's. Started smoking at 16 in 1976. Eventually I switched to non-menthols. 2012 switched to vaping full-time.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

The catch, at least in principle, is if they change anything, and certainly if the introduce a new brand, they need to go through the PMTA process.

We'll see. I still say a federal ban is likely to hit the toilet, yet again.

I started out smoking menthols. I lived in West Philly at the time, and menthols were popular there. Also, they were what my mother smoked (Benson & Hedges menthol, to be specific).

Since I was used to them, I pretty much hated non-menthols on those rare occasions when I bummed one from somebody. Then somewhere between 15 and 20 years into my 36 year smoking career, there was a quit attempt. As expected, I was climbing the walls, and decided to cheat with some non-menthols. I figured there was no way I'd smoke very many of those, 'cause they were nasty! Well guess what? A week or two later, I was smoking just as may non-menthols every day as I'd smoked menthols previously, and I never went back to menthol, not even with vape.

I totally would have switched to menthols if I was forced to or in a circumstance like yours. Some menthols were not as bad as others. Today, I almost exclusively vape peppermint with a little coolada. Luv it. I'd have never thought that I would be a minty vaper.