Duel AW IMR14500 Verse Trustfire 14500 Flame on a Smoktek Varicool

[niczgreat]

Complete details about performance of batteries can be found at this Post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-varicool-custom-box-mod-made-u-s-review.html

This Post will concentrate on Battery Life of the two.

Trustfire Flame 14500 Vs AW IMR 14500 on the smoktek Varicool VV mod


The Equipment:
E-Cig - Smoktek Smokbox Varicool VV- Vendor Smoktek (Don't confuse with Smoketech)
Voltage Tester- Digital Voltage Tester sold by Smoktek
Cartomizers: One 510 Mega XL Dual Coil Clear Cartomizer Sold by Discount Vapers and One Generic 3 0hm Single Cartomizer (Old Laying around, can't remember the vendor)
Multimeter- Centech Digital Multimeter sold by Harbor Freight
Battery Charger- XTAR WP2 II LI-ION CHARGER Sold by SbFlashlights


The Batteries
14500 Trustfire Flame - Protected Li-Ion Battery -900mAh 50mm (2-pack) Sold by Smoktek $5.50 per battery or $11.00 a pair
AW IMR 14500 LiMN Rechargeable Lithium Battery 600mah - $7.50 per Battery or $15.00 per pair Sold by Lighthound (Known as a reliable source for AW Batteries)


The Test Method:
Batteries were Charged to capacity on the Xtar Charger. Voltage was set to 4.30 on the Smokbox Varicool Mod. This was verified by the Digital Led Testing adaptor from Smoktek. The Digital Led tester was attached to the varicool and the Cartomizers were attached to the Digital LED Tester. This was done to monitor voltage during testing and to protect unit from the sizzling hot cartomizers.
The Cartomizers were run for 1 minute and than alternated. The filler was kept constantly wet with DIY Organic 100% VG Juice. Toilet Paper was used to constantly blot the excess liquid sizzling out through the bottom of the Cartomizers. The Cartomizers were not inhaled during the process.

The test
Trustfire Flame 14500 both came off charger at 4.21Volts +- .01 Volt
AW IMR 14500 came off charger at 4.21Volts =- .01 Volt
Voltage was set to 4.30 on the Varicool.
Under Load on the 1.5 Dual Coil Cartomizer approximately 4.14V +-.01V
Under Load on the 3.0 Ohm Cartomizer 4.19+- .01Ohm


Note 4.3 Volts was chosen because the Varicool with the standard single coil tank or cartomizer runs it at .10 volt less which provides the 4.20 Sweet Spot that many Vapors prefer. It is a median sweet spot between the 3.7 and the 5.0 sweet spots. I would have liked to do the 5.0 but it's too hot to do a quick test and might have melted or fried the Cartomizers.
Vapeage
Trustfire 35 Minutes of Vape before Cutoff
AW IMR 25 Minutes of Vape before Cutoff

Note: I was monitoring the Voltage of the Cartomizers under load and their was no drop off of voltage. Both Trustfire and AW ran normally and than at the end cut out suddenly.


Voltage Testing at cutoff.
Trustfire Flame 14500
Battery 1- 3.18 Volts
Battery 2- 3.38 Volts


AW IMR 14500
Battery 1 - 3.06Volts
Battery 2 - 2.60 Volts


Conclusion About Performance of Batteries:
I paid much more for the AW IMR and was hoping that they were worth the price. I went into the test biased expecting that Trustfire was exaggerating their mah. They weren't, In the end the higher mah of the Trustfire Flame outperformed the AW IMR


Trust Fire was the clear winner. They cost around 25% less and provided 40% more battery life. In previous testing the Trustfire matched the AW IMR in all on a single coil clearomizer and up to extreme Vaping Levels on a Dual Coil 1.5OHm Cartridge.
According to the Lighthound sight the undervoltage level for the AW IMR is 2.5 Volts, the batteries were unable to function or the unit cut them off at 2.6. It's not clear why they cut off at a safe level because they don't have Protection. It is possible that once they didn't have enough left to provide correct Voltage that the Unit shut them down.


Conclusion about performance of Varicool:


AW IMR lasted 25 minutes which is = to 1500 seconds
Trustfire lasted 35 minutes which is = to 2100 seconds


If a person vaping is taking 10 second drags which is considered to be a long drag than they will have 150 drags with the AW and 210 Drags with the Trustfire. In my opinion it's best for batteries to be charged once a day (24 Hours) and the average person is awake 16 hours.
So with the Aw a person would have 9 drags per hour and with the Trustfire 13 Drags per hour. It appears that the Smoktek Varicool using Trustfire should last a heavy vaper for around 24 hours. It's very tough because everyone is different and follows a different pattern. I've found myself that I'm a very heavy vaper and at the end of 24 hours my Trustfires are testing in at 3.68 well above the cutoff point that I saw today. You can do the math and interpolate your vaping habits and Voltages.
For example if you are vaping at 5.0V than theoretically you would have 20% less vapes that is where the Trustfire would be the superior solution. and it goes the other way too if you are a 3.7v vapor, you'd get around 12% more vapes.


Disclaimer:
This test was done on a very specific E-Cigarette. It is quite possible that on a different e-cigarrete the results and performance would be different.


The test sampling is small. There is always the possibility that I received above average Trustfire and or below average AW. So this test is an indication only. I'm doing this testing as a Hobby/Project and can't devote the Resources to duplicating this test with a larger sampling.


The testing was done unbiased and impartially, you make your own conclusions.

 

[muzichead]

I think this topic has been discussed on the forum several times, just in the last year and a half I have been on here. I have been trying to find the load tests that were posted about a year ago and have been unsuccessful at the moment. One of the things i do remember of the tests and of course you pointed out already, the TF is 900mAh and the AW IMR is 600mAh. It is comparing apples to oranges. Of course the TF is going to give you a longer vape time. It is 300mAh more. If there was such a thing as an AW IMR 14500 900mAh you would probably see the vape time being somewhere in the 35+ min or 2250 sec range. I will say, that I personally use the AW IMR in just a standard 3.7V box mod from ST and I get on average of 6-7 hrs as opposed to 4-5 hrs with the TF's before there was a noticeable dropoff in quality of vape. I, (of course), bought the TF's as I thought being larger mAh would give me longer vape times and better vaping quality overall. I was wrong.... Of course this is my personal experience with these, but then by some freak of nature I could also be wrong! Maybe the time of day, temperature, sitting down, standing up, or any other factor played into why I came to my conclusion. I really can't explain it, but if you look deep enough into the forum you will find I'm not the only person that feels that way. I will also point out that the number of vendors that once carried the TF's have stopped and changed over to the AW IMR's.... That must be telling us something overall as which one is the superior or at least preferred battery....

By the way, I googled Lamplighter and found nothing on them. Do you have a link you can provide. I am always looking for vendors to check out and possibly buy from. Thanks....

 

[niczgreat]

I think this topic has been discussed on the forum several times, just in the last year and a half I have been on here. I have been trying to find the load tests that were posted about a year ago and have been unsuccessful at the moment. One of the things i do remember of the tests and of course you pointed out already, the TF is 900mAh and the AW IMR is 600mAh. It is comparing apples to oranges. Of course the TF is going to give you a longer vape time. It is 300mAh more. If there was such a thing as an AW IMR 14500 900mAh you would probably see the vape time being somewhere in the 35+ min or 2250 sec range. I will say, that I personally use the AW IMR in just a standard 3.7V box mod from ST and I get on average of 6-7 hrs as opposed to 4-5 hrs with the TF's before there was a noticeable dropoff in quality of vape. I, (of course), bought the TF's as I thought being larger mAh would give me longer vape times and better vaping quality overall. I was wrong.... Of course this is my personal experience with these, but then by some freak of nature I could also be wrong! Maybe the time of day, temperature, sitting down, standing up, or any other factor played into why I came to my conclusion. I really can't explain it, but if you look deep enough into the forum you will find I'm not the only person that feels that way. I will also point out that the number of vendors that once carried the TF's have stopped and changed over to the AW IMR's.... That must be telling us something overall as which one is the superior or at least preferred battery....

By the way, I googled Lamplighter and found nothing on them. Do you have a link you can provide. I am always looking for vendors to check out and possibly buy from. Thanks....

The Review was with Varicool Smokbox VV unit. You have a different Model. Comparing your model to mine is like comparing Apples to Oranges. This unit tested is using two batteries. Your E-Cig is using 1 battery. The Varicool VV has a different chip in it which allows it to go to 6.6V Vaping. The technology is different between a Two Battery VV System and a 1 Battery Fixed System. My conclusion is not about how the two compare on any other E-Cig. Please see disclaimers.

You said compare Apples to Oranges.
Please go to my other thread. I tested the Trustfire and the AW IMR Battery with 2 different Clearomizers and a 1.5 Ohm Dual Cartomizer. The performance was identical on the single coil Cartomizers

Below is an excerpt from my other thread where I tested the Trustfire on Single Coil. It took a week for my AW to arrive and I tested them using the same test. The results on the single coil were identical. Yes I was blown away myself, I was expecting the AW IMR to have better performance than the Trustfire. I again am going to make a statement that in the parameter of using the Trustfire Flame 14500 and the AW IMR 14500 in the Smoktek Smokbox Varicool VV with 1.8OHM and 2.40 Ohm Single Coil Cartomizer that the Aw and Trustfire performed identically. There was no performance boost by paying more for the AW IMR.

"
The Voltage output is rock solid. I have a Smoktek Voltage tester and the output is around .10V lower under load when running the 2.40hm and .14 when I ran a 1.8om Cartomizer at 4.18V. This is in the lower voltage range of 3.6v to 4.2v.

I just dialed the voltage up to 5.0 and under load with the 2.4 Cartomizer it vaped at 4.90. and with the 1.8ohm it stuck to a solid 4.8 and started to taste a little burnt.

let’s go to 6Volts. At 6v the 2.4 did 5.9 and the 1.8 did 5.9 ow the 1.8ohm it burned my mouth. Tastes Putrid Yuck. Rob if you are reading this than you owe me a few new atomizers.!!!
No way I’m taking the 1.8 any higher, but let’s have a little fun with the 2.4. The highest I could dial the voltage was 6.6v

I took my vape and at 6.6 the voltage went to 6.3 and stayed there, solid as a rock. This is amazing because I’m using the Trustfire Protected batteries. I have AW High Drains on order, but so far they look unnecessary. But when they come in I’ll redo the voltage tests and we’ll see if they improve from great to excellent!!!
I’ve gone the highest that I can go which is above what I find enjoyable "

 

[niczgreat]

I did a side by side comparison with a 1.5 Ohm Dual Coil Cartomizer. I will make the statement that under the limited Parameters of a 1.5 Dual Coil Cartomizer being used on the Smoktek Smokbox Varicool VV that up to 6V the performance was virtually identical between the Trustfire Flame 14500 and the AW IMR 14500. With the possibility that the Trustfire outperformed the AW at 6V. At 6.6V output the AW IMR did outperform the Trustfire by .3V +- .1v. The question is how many users are going to take a Dual 1.5 Cartomizer above 5.8V under load? I don't think many. Below is my side to side comparison.

"
The dreaded 1.5 Ohm Dual Cart bought from Discount Vapers 510 Dual Coil 3.5ml Clear Cartomizer

I did not vape this just let it run. I'm so used to clearomizers that cartomizers taste putrid to me.

Results

Aw IMR 14500 Batteries Charged to 4.22 on multimeter
Trustfire Flame 14500 Batteries Charged to 4.23 on Multimeter
Charger used Xtar

4.0 Volts
AW 3.83 15 seconds
TF identical

5 Volts
AW 5.0 to 4.80 15 seconds
TF identical

6 Volts
AW 5.7 15 seconds
TF 5.8 15 Seconds

6.6Volts
AW First 5 Seconds 6.3, Second 5 seconds 6.2 Third 5 Seconds 6.1
TF (1st Test) 1st 5 seconds 6.1 Second 5 seconds 6.0 Third 5 seconds 5.9
TF (2nd Test) 1st 5 Seconds 6.0 Next 10 second 5.9

I was surprised by the data, the trust fire held it's own and even performed slightly better on the
6v test.

Where it was inferior to the Aw was at the top end of the spectrum. Where the voltage is so high that most Vapers will never go. I redid the test and came up with a little lower result.

Yes the AW does outperform the Trustfire when you take it to the edge. But the reality is that most people wouldn't vape a dual Ohm Cartridge at the 6.6V Test Voltage. And certainly not for more than 5 seconds anyway.

So for anyone that is vaping a Dual 1.5OHM Cartridge at a loaded Voltage of 5.8 and under the Varicool Combined with the Trustfire Battery will be a stable Vaping solutioin.

To those who like Mad Vaping Temperatures the Varicool will give you a stable 5 seconds of 6.3Ohm Vaping with gradual decrease in Voltage with a AW IMR Battery.

Final Conclusion: the Varicool is a winner combined with the Dual coil 1.5 Ohm Atomizers, with either a Trustfire Flame or a AW IMR Battery."

 

[niczgreat]

. I will say, that I personally use the AW IMR in just a standard 3.7V box mod from ST and I get on average of 6-7 hrs as opposed to 4-5 hrs with the TF's before there was a noticeable dropoff in quality of vape.

I've added this to the original report.

Note: I was monitoring the Batteries with my LED Digital Tester. With both AW and IMR there was no difference in Cartomizer Volts under Load. Their was no tapering of Voltage at the end. They simply cut off.

Your stating that you've had a tapering off of your vaping as opposed to complete cutoff reinforces my premise that our SmokBox Units are different technology.

My testing doesn't make a conclusion about the difference between Trustfire Flame 14500 and AW IMR 14500 on different models of Smoktek.

I am not saying that overall the Trustfire is better than the AW. We are talking about how they perform with one specific model.

My personal opinion is that the VariCool VV using Two Batteries along with the Voltage Regulation Technology compensates for the lower quality of Trustfire. That the Trustfire did so well is a tribute to the great quality of the Smokbox Varicool VV not the battery itself.

 

[niczgreat]

By the way, I bought a Ultrafire 3100mah awhile back and confused it with being a Trustfire. That Ultrafire 3000mah was left in the dust by Orbtronic Soshine Batteries.
I entered into testing thinking that Trustfire are garbage and that the AW would beat them hands down. The test results just didn't back up that premise.

 

[muzichead]

You still are comparing apples to oranges no matter which way you test those two batteries against each other. One is 900mAh and the other is 600mAh. I don't care what mod you use.... If your test was conducted with either identical mAh batteries or a little more similar in mAh I would have a tendency to think you might have some good data. Again, it wouldn't matter if you tested these two in a Silver Bullet, Provari, or an Old Goat mod.... The extra 300mah will make your data incorrect....

I will also note that the 5min. difference between the two says even more about the AW's as the 300 mAh extra should have out performed by at least 10+mins. according to your theory...

 

[Optimo]

AW is far superior to Trustfire when it comes to performance. Would rather have better performance than battery life anyday.

I can guarantee if you put Trustfires up aginst AW's in the VMax the AWs will last almost twice as long.

 

[niczgreat]

AW is far superior to Trustfire when it comes to performance. Would rather have better performance than battery life anyday.

I can guarantee if you put Trustfires up aginst AW's in the VMax the AWs will last almost twice as long.

I did not rate the AW 18650. I did not rate the VMax. I did not rate the Trustfire Line of Batteries. I did not rate the Vmax using Trustfire Batteries

I rated the AW Imr 14500 against the TrustFire Flame 14500 in a Smokbox Varicool VV Mod.

Did you read my tests? Their was no superior performance except with a Dual Coil 1.5 OHM Cartomizer running at 6.6 V.

 

[niczgreat]

You still are comparing apples to oranges no matter which way you test those two batteries against each other. One is 900mAh and the other is 600mAh. I don't care what mod you use.... If your test was conducted with either identical mAh batteries or a little more similar in mAh I would have a tendency to think you might have some good data. Again, it wouldn't matter if you tested these two in a Silver Bullet, Provari, or an Old Goat mod.... The extra 300mah will make your data incorrect....

I will also note that the 5min. difference between the two says even more about the AW's as the 300 mAh extra should have out performed by at least 10+mins. according to your theory...

Please re-read the post the Trustfire out performed the AW by 10 minutes right in line with what you just said.

"Theory" I tested the batteries and than made conclusions based on the test results

"Good Data" My Data is Just Data that applies to owners of Smoktek Smokbox Varicool VV who are trying to make a choice between the AW IMR and the Trustfire Flame. Do you have a problem with the tests. You really sound pretty biased.

How does the 300mah difference make the data incorrect? It explains the data.

The Trustfire 4500 Flame is 28% less expensive. It performed Identically in the Varicool VV Mod except at the highest Voltage using a Dual Coil 1.5ohm Cartomizer.

In terms of Battery Life it beat the AW Hands Down

I did not test a AW IMR 14500 900mah battery because it doesn't exist. When AW decides to Make a 900mah Imr 14500 I'll be happy to test it.

 

[muzichead]

Unless you are comparing a 900mAh battery to a 900mAh battery your test results are a fail. They are worthless.... I'm done with this topic... As I said in my previous post, it doesn't matter what mod you are using. If you are going to compare something side by side you need to make sure at the very least, in the same realm..... Go ask a battery manufacturer if 300mAh makes a difference. I would bet you they will tell you what everyone else has said in this topic....It makes a huge difference....

Just in case you missed it when I said it earlier..... ITS APPLES TO ORANGES....

I will let the biased comment go by the way side and just make believe you didn't say that.... Go run your test by one of the battery company's. Maybe you'll understand when they tell you what you've been told already....

 

[Rocketman]

Tom, I hope you have learned not to upset the apple cart (or is it the orange cart)
You can not post tests that do not conform to the majority premise.
AW batteries are better

IF you need current, get the AW. If you need run time, get a protected Li-ion.
In this case, even though apples and oranges where compared, they were the same size apples and oranges.

+1 for the courage to post this on ECF

 

[niczgreat]

Tom, I hope you have learned not to upset the apple cart (or is it the orange cart)
You can not post tests that do not conform to the majority premise.
AW batteries are better

IF you need current, get the AW. If you need run time, get a protected Li-ion.
In this case, even though apples and oranges where compared, they were the same size apples and oranges.

+1 for the courage to post this on ECF

Hi Rocketman thank you for your opinion. Hey I just noticed that you joined the forum a month before me. I don't see that many people with Seniority.

I'm of the agreement that brands like Trustfire are generally not as good as the premium brands. I did a test in a Flashlight of a Orbtronic Soshine 2800MAH and it blew the socks off of the UltraFire 3000mah I believe that the forum consensus is correct overall.

Trustfire sells more than 1 version of the 14500,there is a possibilty that they are putting the best quality cells into the ones labeled with the flame.

Owners of the Varicool VV are faced with two choices. (Aside from Generics). Purchase a Trustfire Flame, or Purchase a AW IMR. My intention was to compare the two on that unit and give them the information to make the correct choice.

What was surprising was that on that unit the AW is superior in performance was debunked in certain ways. 1st many say, my AW IMR lasts much longer than the batteries with Higher MAH. In this case not true. That doesn't mean that with a different model AW IMR or the same batteries used on a different APV the results wouldn't be different.

The second was about performance. When examining the tests. The performance was equal.
At the very highest Voltage level the AW IMR did slightly outperform the Trustfire Flame but only when you went over to the
dual coil Atomizer. In a single coil the performance was identical.

For 99% of the users of the Varicool VV the Trustfire Flame will provide equal performance and better battery life for a lower price. My tests were real world tests using a scientific method and Scientific Equipment.

I don't think that it's courageous to Post a Honest Scientific Review. The problem seems to be that people are taking the tests that I've done for specific batteries used in a specific APV and interpreting it to mean that I'm making a blanket statement.

I'll stand by my test method and my review.

 

[billherbst]

I have a whole gaggle of dual-14500 box mods in VV and 5-volt regulated, so many that I have a huge stock of 14500 batts. I've also got three bottom-feeders that take a single 14500---VMod v2, Old Goat, and a Missy Wetbox v2.

If I had bought all AW high-drain 14500s, I'd be a pauper now. Well, not really, but you get my point. Instead, I found a reliable internet source in America for protected Trustfire 900mAh blues dirt cheap ($2.35 each, shipped---not saying where, since I like being able to get them whenever I want), so those are my main batts in that size. I also have about six AW reds and eight Trustfire flames purchased early on. Of the 63 14500s I've bought over nearly two years (with most at least a year old and recharged often), only three have crapped out. All the rest are still going strong. And yes, I keep them in marked pairs.

For me---and I emphasize that this is my personal experience and leaning only, YMMV---the Trustfire blues are terrific. I haven't noticed any perceptible difference in performance---meaning vape quality and time---compared to the AWs and TF flames. The TF blues are protected, but tend to be a millimeter or two shorter than the flames, making them an easier fit in many of my boxes.

Everyone gets to use whatever batteries he/she chooses. For 18650s, I tend to go with hybrid Pannys or Efests, either button-top or flat-top (depends on the mod). For 18500s or 18349/50s, it's Efests or AWs. For 16340s, I like Trustfire flames. For 14500s, I buy Trustfire blues every time I need more.

 

[Rader2146]

At this point in technology, AW (or any other brand that doesn't inflate thier advertised capacity) can't produce a 900mAh 14500 because it doesn't exist.

Tom, I agree with your methods and acceptable accuracy of your test. I did a similar test (TFF VS AW IMR) for my single bat box mod and found it a toss up for my unregulated direct drive mod. For a buck regulated mod, LiCo is a clear winner for run time. But the inconsistency of TF batteries has steered my to gladly pay a premium for quality 14500's.

 

[niczgreat]

I have a whole gaggle of dual-14500 box mods in VV and 5-volt regulated, so many that I have a huge stock of 14500 batts. I've also got three bottom-feeders that take a single 14500---VMod v2, Old Goat, and a Missy Wetbox v2.

If I had bought all AW high-drain 14500s, I'd be a pauper now. Well, not really, but you get my point. Instead, I found a reliable internet source in America for protected Trustfire 900mAh blues dirt cheap ($2.35 each, shipped---not saying where, since I like being able to get them whenever I want), so those are my main batts in that size. I also have about six AW reds and eight Trustfire flames purchased early on. Of the 63 14500s I've bought over nearly two years (with most at least a year old and recharged often), only three have crapped out. All the rest are still going strong. And yes, I keep them in marked pairs.

For me---and I emphasize that this is my personal experience and leaning only, YMMV---the Trustfire blues are terrific. I haven't noticed any perceptible difference in performance---meaning vape quality and time---compared to the AWs and TF flames. The TF blues are protected, but tend to be a millimeter or two shorter than the flames, making them an easier fit in many of my boxes.

Everyone gets to use whatever batteries he/she chooses. For 18650s, I tend to go with hybrid Pannys or Efests, either button-top or flat-top (depends on the mod). For 18500s or 18349/50s, it's Efests or AWs. For 16340s, I like Trustfire flames. For 14500s, I buy Trustfire blues every time I need more.

Hi Bill,
Thanks for the lead on the Blue Trustfire. I'm going to give them a try. I don't like that I have to cram the Flame into the box.

And I was just about to throw my tester Cartomizers out. Sigh...

 

[mwa102464]

I was just curious as to why running the AW IMR 14500 VS the TF Flame instead of the Black IC AW 14500 750mAh, wouldn't the IC 14500 AW give you a longer run time then the AW IMR 14500 ?

 

[Rocketman]

My guess is probably yes.
IMR gives a higher current limit. IC gives a larger capacity WH/CC.
Recent improvements in IMR manufacturing methods are improving WH capacity.
For example, 1600mah, 5.9WH is not the largest 18650 IMR any longer



Question: What is the voltage dropped across the protection circuit of an AW IC cell?
Protection ain't free.

 

[mwa102464]

Seems like a more logical test running the black IC AW 14500 vs the Flame then the AW IMR to me Rocketman.

 

[niczgreat]

Seems like a more logical test running the black IC AW 14500 vs the Flame then the AW IMR to me Rocketman.

I'm just a private individual. I've paid for everything that's tested or used for testing.

The AW 14500 protected are $10.00 at lighthound. I can get a pair of two TrustFire for $5.50. So at double the price this battery is out of my price range. If the Trustfire had failed in performance than of course I'd be interested in paying more to get better performance. But they didn't.

The IMR Technology was chosen because it has a huge following and whenever I came across choices for this unit in the forum everyone asked does the Varicool work with the AW IMR. You see I was hoping that the Trustfire was lying about the mah and that the hype on the forum about the IMR lasting longer than the rated mah was true. I went into this test expecting that the IMR battey would blow the Trustfire away in performance and that it would last as long. This is based on the common views I read on the forum.

It just didn't happen that way.


But you have me intrigued. If more people request a comparison, I'll be happy to do it.