The whole situation of commercial modders and co-ops has got out of control. This forum has been manipulated by people who are small-scale vendors but who want to take advantage of the ECF facilities and community. It can't go on like this and it is time to clean house.
There are two issues:
1. Modders who are in reality vendors but trying to camouflage their activities.
2. People running co-ops who have no right or ability to do so.
1. Modders who are vendors
In order to protect members, ECF has many policies in place that separate members from vendors. Those rules are there for a reason. If people are selling products, they have to be a Registered Supplier because it allows us to inspect their activities and make sure people are not taken advantage of.
If you have people flouting those rules, two things happen:
a. Members will eventually get ripped in one way or another.
b. It ruins the Modders Forum for genuine modders, who are experimenters, inventors and e-cig improvers who have no commercial agenda.
2. Badly-run co-ops
Some people start co-ops when they have no real ability to run one, or when in reality it is a commercial venture. The result is that members get no product for months, or get ripped, or are unknowingly just part of a commercial project that may or may not go wrong.
What we have to do now
So in the end, ECF has to act. There are two things we have to do: (1) make sure the Modders Forum is for modders not vendors; and (2) make sure people know that money paid into a co-op is high-risk, especially if the numbers are big - either the cost, or the number of units.
It appears that some people here have taken advantage, and that will now be stopped.
As regards the 'dead' co-op/s, those who paid still have all their contacts for the co-ops/s concerned. The people running these ventures do not respond here or anywhere else, so effectively the thread/s is/are dead in any case.
Currently, we are looking at new systems for co-ops on ECF. These may include a new, separate section where they have to be placed (done); a rule that maximum 100 units is the limit; and extensive warnings that any money paid is strictly a risk/benefit wager: you attempt to get a product at half-price (the benefit), against the possibility you get nothing, or the quality is poor, or there is a one-year wait (the risk).
People need to realise the difference between buying in a co-op and buying from an ECF Registered Supplier: there is absolutely no comeback if a co-op goes bad. The same goes for buying from an under-the-counter semi-commercial modder.
So: we need to fix the problem that people are abusing the system, and then when it all goes wrong, members complain to us. They think there is something we can do - but we can't, because you went around the system in the first place.
This needs fixing. There will be some pain at first, but nothing compared to leaving it as-is.
Scale
Like the Classifieds section, which has also had problems that need fixing, the Modders Forum and the co-ops situation need updating. Due to the huge scale of everything on ECF, no problem is small: they may start small, but eventually problems become too big to ignore any longer. As ECF grows, changes have to come. What works with a few close friends doesn't work with tens of thousands of people spread around the world.
There are two issues:
1. Modders who are in reality vendors but trying to camouflage their activities.
2. People running co-ops who have no right or ability to do so.
1. Modders who are vendors
In order to protect members, ECF has many policies in place that separate members from vendors. Those rules are there for a reason. If people are selling products, they have to be a Registered Supplier because it allows us to inspect their activities and make sure people are not taken advantage of.
If you have people flouting those rules, two things happen:
a. Members will eventually get ripped in one way or another.
b. It ruins the Modders Forum for genuine modders, who are experimenters, inventors and e-cig improvers who have no commercial agenda.
2. Badly-run co-ops
Some people start co-ops when they have no real ability to run one, or when in reality it is a commercial venture. The result is that members get no product for months, or get ripped, or are unknowingly just part of a commercial project that may or may not go wrong.
What we have to do now
So in the end, ECF has to act. There are two things we have to do: (1) make sure the Modders Forum is for modders not vendors; and (2) make sure people know that money paid into a co-op is high-risk, especially if the numbers are big - either the cost, or the number of units.
It appears that some people here have taken advantage, and that will now be stopped.
As regards the 'dead' co-op/s, those who paid still have all their contacts for the co-ops/s concerned. The people running these ventures do not respond here or anywhere else, so effectively the thread/s is/are dead in any case.
Currently, we are looking at new systems for co-ops on ECF. These may include a new, separate section where they have to be placed (done); a rule that maximum 100 units is the limit; and extensive warnings that any money paid is strictly a risk/benefit wager: you attempt to get a product at half-price (the benefit), against the possibility you get nothing, or the quality is poor, or there is a one-year wait (the risk).
People need to realise the difference between buying in a co-op and buying from an ECF Registered Supplier: there is absolutely no comeback if a co-op goes bad. The same goes for buying from an under-the-counter semi-commercial modder.
So: we need to fix the problem that people are abusing the system, and then when it all goes wrong, members complain to us. They think there is something we can do - but we can't, because you went around the system in the first place.
This needs fixing. There will be some pain at first, but nothing compared to leaving it as-is.
Scale
Like the Classifieds section, which has also had problems that need fixing, the Modders Forum and the co-ops situation need updating. Due to the huge scale of everything on ECF, no problem is small: they may start small, but eventually problems become too big to ignore any longer. As ECF grows, changes have to come. What works with a few close friends doesn't work with tens of thousands of people spread around the world.
