Blood test lab results for nicotine levels!!!
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Stubby, I am curious as to your statement that ecigs have a high failure rate. I had not heard this, in fact I have read the opposite. However, the success rate for NRTs is generally in terms of how many users go back to smoking after a year. Has there been enough time with ecigs, at least here in the States, to be able show statistically meaningful data supporting or refuting this statement? You may be right, but if you know of any data or papers you could post, I would love to see them. My own personal success with ecigs is of course not necessarily indicative of the entire user population, and I've only been vaping 7 weeks or so, so the jury is still out for me, anyway.
Thanks!
Thanks!
Of geeez, that was posted nearly 3 months ago. So it goes.
The conversation has moved on since then. It looks as if some people on the forum may have figured out why e-cigs work for some and not for others. The anecdotal evidence looks very good that it has to do with the lack of MOAI's in e-cigs.
For some of us there is more to it then stuffing more nicotine in our bloodstream.
I would suggest reading this thread for info.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html
Well another lesson learned for me I actually found this thread in todays posts. I did read the the link you provided and found it very interesting. So did you find an alternative to analogs that worked for you?
Of course. I've been smoke free using snus for nearly 6 months.
I'm the resident devils advocate.
Actually I don't think you are the devils advocate you provide information for people that the ecig doesn't work for and an explaination of why it doesn't work for them. I think I'm going to try some snus. I actually liked the nic gum but missed smoking and didn't want to use both the gum and smoke.
I'm interested in the testing that was discussed earlier in this thread of the nicotine levels found while vaping from bloodtests. I recently asked my personal doctor to perform this test when I was getting all my bloodwork done. He stated Nicotine levels are not tested with a bloodtest but through a urine specimen...
I'm not doctor and I'm sure he knows best, I did not pay the extra monies to have the extra test run because my body is telling me I am NOT getting as much nicotine while vaping. So I do it more to satisfy my cravings and it WORKS FOR ME. I feel like I can stay away from analogs from now on. Three months is the longest I have ever been able to be off analogs in over thirty years. To each their own, I will advocate them only because the have worked for me. I'm sure they WILL NOT for some hardcore smokers due to the lack of nicotine IMHO we are not really getting.
Just my 3 cents...............
I'm not doctor and I'm sure he knows best, I did not pay the extra monies to have the extra test run because my body is telling me I am NOT getting as much nicotine while vaping. So I do it more to satisfy my cravings and it WORKS FOR ME. I feel like I can stay away from analogs from now on. Three months is the longest I have ever been able to be off analogs in over thirty years. To each their own, I will advocate them only because the have worked for me. I'm sure they WILL NOT for some hardcore smokers due to the lack of nicotine IMHO we are not really getting.
Just my 3 cents...............
Yesterday I had my yearly exam. I told my MD about the ecig and that I had quit regular smoking over eight months ago. He was happy (he has been harping on me for years) and at the same time very interested in the ecig. He even brought his 2 colleges into the exam room for me to give my spiel again and a demonstration. LOL!
More to the point of this thread I asked about nicotine levels. At first I was told it was just a urine test and I told him that I think that is just a test for yes/no if you are a smoker or a nicotine user. He called the lab and found out that there was a blood test and so he had the nurse draw an extra vial of blood just for this test. When I get the results I will post them.
More to the point of this thread I asked about nicotine levels. At first I was told it was just a urine test and I told him that I think that is just a test for yes/no if you are a smoker or a nicotine user. He called the lab and found out that there was a blood test and so he had the nurse draw an extra vial of blood just for this test. When I get the results I will post them.
Just another note to all curious about nicotine use out there....I make my own juice, and had started out at 24mg/ml juice. This level kept me pretty happily comfortable without withdrawal pains for the first couple months after quitting smoking to vape. At about 3 months in, I cut my juice to 18mg/ml, that's a 25% reduction. No withdrawal symptoms. A little increase in juice consumption for about a week, but gradually slowed back to before. I use about 2ml liquid per day.
After 8 months vaping, I have cut down again, from 18mg/ml down to 12 mg/ml. That's another 25% reduction! No withdrawal symptoms. Nothing. No noticable increased juice use. Still at about 2ml per day.
So will in a couple weeks do another urine test (Nymox) just to see how my Cotinine levels are progressing. This is just fantastic, it's so ridiculously easy and pain free. Just wanted to share some progress reporting.
Just do it. Would like to hear from others who have reduced nicotine usage since starting vaping. Give us a picture of your comfort zone!
After 8 months vaping, I have cut down again, from 18mg/ml down to 12 mg/ml. That's another 25% reduction! No withdrawal symptoms. Nothing. No noticable increased juice use. Still at about 2ml per day.
So will in a couple weeks do another urine test (Nymox) just to see how my Cotinine levels are progressing. This is just fantastic, it's so ridiculously easy and pain free. Just wanted to share some progress reporting.
Just do it. Would like to hear from others who have reduced nicotine usage since starting vaping. Give us a picture of your comfort zone!
Hmmm... you are assuming that Nicotine is only coming from tobacco ...
Nicotine has consistently been found in other sources such as tea (Most likely residual from the insecticides) and potatoes (French Fries), Tomatoes (Highest in Ketchup)... and so forth-
This report has tables and is from NZ;
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/P278_Nicotine_FAR_Final.pdf
So how much is in your diet... It varies from country to country and by person to person but it is estimated to be ;
Siegmund, B., Leitner, E., & Pfannhauser, W. (1999). Determination of the nicotine content of various edible nightshades (solanaceae) and their products and estimation of the associated dietary nicotine intake. J. Agric. Food Chem. , 47 (8), 3113-3120.
URL Determination of the Nicotine Content of Various Edible Nightshades (Solanaceae) and Their Products and Estimation of the Associated Dietary Nicotine Intake - Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (ACS Publications)
Nicotine has consistently been found in other sources such as tea (Most likely residual from the insecticides) and potatoes (French Fries), Tomatoes (Highest in Ketchup)... and so forth-
This report has tables and is from NZ;
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/P278_Nicotine_FAR_Final.pdf
So how much is in your diet... It varies from country to country and by person to person but it is estimated to be ;
Siegmund, B., Leitner, E., & Pfannhauser, W. (1999). Determination of the nicotine content of various edible nightshades (solanaceae) and their products and estimation of the associated dietary nicotine intake. J. Agric. Food Chem. , 47 (8), 3113-3120.
URL Determination of the Nicotine Content of Various Edible Nightshades (Solanaceae) and Their Products and Estimation of the Associated Dietary Nicotine Intake - Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry (ACS Publications)
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Hey, IANAN, boy, never know who you'll bump into when ya start roaming the streets at night 
. Anyway, don't these figures seem high? Not questioning accuracy, here, as I know you're exhaustive in your reasearch, but..wow!
. Anyway, don't these figures seem high? Not questioning accuracy, here, as I know you're exhaustive in your reasearch, but..wow! Twisted... They could have grossly underestimated the numbers.... How many people go to a fast-food restaurant and order a sandwich smothered in ketchup with tomatoes, x-large fry and smoother them in ketchup and down it with a x-large Ice tea (42 oz= 5 1/4 cups)?? I really don't know any tea drinkers that only consume 1.6 cups a day.... more like 1.6 Quarts of tea a day.
Hmmmm. Point understood. Sounds like I should up the ketchup on my prunes, then 
.
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Twisted... I see what you are talking about.... The Micro symbol didn't transfer over.... That should be ug and not g per day.
Wowzers
Still think they underestimated it.
Oh...
...you sneeky guy. Had me going, there. Good. Scratch that ketchup, then .Well considering that50-60 mg is the lethal dose for humans... Documentation for Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLHs) - 54115 then 1 g would be be enough to kill all us all several times over. Yeah I fixed it.... didn't want anyone trying that one...
didn't want anyone trying that one...
I'm not a doctor or chemist, but I can see a few quick reasons why tests calibrated for tobacco use would misread vaping:
1) Nicotine proper has a particular chemical formation, and refined nicotine will nearly all have that exact chemistry, but natural nicotine can be a mixture of slight variations (much like how all sugars contain glucose, and become glucose after digestion). Refined sugar is processed by the body much faster than natural sugars, which is why you see kids getting sugar rushes and crashes from candy. Something similar may occur with natural nicotine from tobacco and refined nicotine in vaping.
2) Tobacco delivers nicotine in particles of tar, which stick to the lungs and continue to deliver nicotine. PG and VG metabolize much faster, leaving less residual nicotine delivery.
3) Nicotine's effects are knockon effects on neurotransmitters and their receptors, which have residual effects of their own. These are not indicated by the test he took.
Note that although his nicotine level was not in the range of that of a smoker, his cotinine level was, and the 3-oh-cotinine level was elevated considerably above that of a non-smoker (although not at a clinically positive level). As cotinine is the short-term metabolite of nicotine, and 3-oh-cotinine is the long term metabolite, this is exactly what you would expect to see if vaping produced *rapid* absorption of nicotine but with little residual delivery, and the chemically pure form meant there was no delay as more complex forms were first metabolized into nicotine.
I'm not sure why so many people are suddenly trying to prove that vaping *isn't* actually delivering nicotine (unless some strategy against the FDA is involved), but this evidence certainly doesn't lean that way The cotinine result alone shows that significant amounts of nicotine were metabolized in the 2 weeks before the test, they would not have persisted for the two months since he quit analogs.
--Dave
1) Nicotine proper has a particular chemical formation, and refined nicotine will nearly all have that exact chemistry, but natural nicotine can be a mixture of slight variations (much like how all sugars contain glucose, and become glucose after digestion). Refined sugar is processed by the body much faster than natural sugars, which is why you see kids getting sugar rushes and crashes from candy. Something similar may occur with natural nicotine from tobacco and refined nicotine in vaping.
2) Tobacco delivers nicotine in particles of tar, which stick to the lungs and continue to deliver nicotine. PG and VG metabolize much faster, leaving less residual nicotine delivery.
3) Nicotine's effects are knockon effects on neurotransmitters and their receptors, which have residual effects of their own. These are not indicated by the test he took.
Note that although his nicotine level was not in the range of that of a smoker, his cotinine level was, and the 3-oh-cotinine level was elevated considerably above that of a non-smoker (although not at a clinically positive level). As cotinine is the short-term metabolite of nicotine, and 3-oh-cotinine is the long term metabolite, this is exactly what you would expect to see if vaping produced *rapid* absorption of nicotine but with little residual delivery, and the chemically pure form meant there was no delay as more complex forms were first metabolized into nicotine.
I'm not sure why so many people are suddenly trying to prove that vaping *isn't* actually delivering nicotine (unless some strategy against the FDA is involved), but this evidence certainly doesn't lean that way The cotinine result alone shows that significant amounts of nicotine were metabolized in the 2 weeks before the test, they would not have persisted for the two months since he quit analogs.
--Dave
I think this is awesome! I have personaly tried to smoke my old favorite analog once because my battery died... the result was me taking one puff and throwing the cig down, at this point it would not be possible for me to go back to analog's. However I do think the device you use to vape makes a huge diffrence as well, I'm a huge techy and anything I can tinker with and mod I enjoy, plus the quality is a big factor had I bought one of those cheap 50$ kits at the mall when I first started vaping I would probably not have been successful at my change.
Wicked self-study happily. Thats great information! Thanks for sharing.
One factor you didin't account for, what voltage do you vape at? As id imagine, higher voltage delivers more nicotine. Im guessing your vaping 3.7v for this study. Now try 7.4v and see what happens?
One factor you didin't account for, what voltage do you vape at? As id imagine, higher voltage delivers more nicotine. Im guessing your vaping 3.7v for this study. Now try 7.4v and see what happens?
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