Bad Taste and Smell from the Genesis Atomizer

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cckk

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Jun 16, 2013
115
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Poland
Hi gals and guys,

I’m e-cigarettes newbie and I encountered the problem which I can’t solve myself nor find the answer searching Internet. I described it exhaustively to avoid unnecessary misunderstandings.

The device

After a few days of research I decided to bought:

1. Smoktech Mod Natural.
2. Smoktech RSST (Rebuildable SS tank) – it uses a new type container which has milky color while the older version of the container was transparent.
3. Mesh 400.
4. Kanthal D 0.25 mm.
5. Two batteries: 18650 3400 mAh and 18350 800 mAh – for the comparison purposes.

The problem

According to my research Genesis Atomizers should give the best taste and smell sensations and Mechanical Mods are very reliable and tough. I chose Smoktech Mod Natural with Smoktech RSST because I like their design features and adjusting possibilities. Unfortunately in my case they reveal some nasty problem. I tried a few tobacco liquids made by a few producers and in each case the taste and smell were almost the same: more or less oily. In fact it’s very unpleasant motor oil-like taste and smell – greasy and artificial.

The setup

I washed the atomizer before I used it for the first time and since I encountered the mentioned problem I wash the atomizer meticulously each time before I change the liquid – in such a case I also burn an old liquid on the wick or I change a wick.

It seems that my coils are perfect – without any hot-spots. I can’t measure their resistances because I use Mechanical Mod and my multimeter isn’t precise enough to detect such a low resistances. I make the coils wrapping Kanthal D 0.25 mm wire on a bar which has 3 mm diameter and I do 3/4 wraps on it. The distance between the lower and the upper wrap in my coils is equal about 5 mm.

As for the wick I tried three variants: 1) 20 mm wide Mesh 400 wick made using the method described in Internet as “petar k method” – the wick in that case isn’t oxidized but just burned gently to clean it; 2) 30 mm wide Mesh 400 wick moderately oxidized; 3) 50 mm wide Mesh 400 wick intensely oxidized.

The liquids

So far I tried a few tobacco liquids made by three producers: Dekang, Joye, and Trendy (Polish product). As for the mentioned Dekang liquids I had the opportunity to try them before I bought them. I tried them in the shop using the seller’s eGo Atomizers filled with 1.1% liquids and then I bought 1.8% liquids. All of them tasted and smelled rather well on eGo Atomizers but they taste and smell more or less horrible on my Genesis Atomizer.

When I sniff the fresh liquids I smell the same motor oil-like odor. So my problem concerns the liquids rather than the device. Because the results were always similar and bad at the same time I’m hesitating which liquid I should buy for the next time to test it. I suppose that all liquids which I tested so far are based on propylene glycol. So maybe some liquids on the basis of vegetable glycerin would be suitable for me? Unfortunately the liquids contain apart of propylene glycol, nicotine, and fragrances a lot of the other substances so I can’t be sure that the propylene glycol is a culprit all the more so because it’s allegedly tasteless and odorless substance.

The conclusion and the question

The results of my tests seem to show that Genesis Atomizer reflects the real taste and smell of the liquids indeed while eGo Atomizers and probably the other devices as well falsify the taste and the smell. Unfortunately I don’t know which ingredient causes that unpleasant effect. So my final question is: which tobacco liquids don’t have the dreadful greasy and artificial motor oil-like taste and smell?

Because of the mentioned reasons I direct my question mainly to the Genesis Atomizers users. To swap Genesis Atomizer to eGo or the other one isn’t an option in my case. I have already the satisfying device – now I need the satisfying liquid. To try the liquids including a fruity or the other fragrances isn’t an option as well. I don’t need the liquid which camouflages the unpleasant taste and smell but the one which hasn’t it – a nice tobacco-like liquid.

***

Each assistance will be appreciated.
 

cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
47
Poland
Leal,

Unfortunately I can’t be sure that it’s a “propylene glycol vs vegetable glycerin problem”. As I know a pure propylene glycol is tasteless and odorless. Of course I can’t be sure that the PG used in the liquids which I tried is pure. So testing some liquid on the base of VG is an option which I take into consideration. Unfortunately it isn’t so easy to find VG-based liquids in Poland.

Kanj.nguyen,

Thank you very much for that advice. The thread you mentioned is here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/351553-2012-best-best-e-liquids-awards.html. I’ll analyze it now and I’ll try to find some of these liquids in Poland including the ones which you mentioned.

In fact your advice is from my perspective the good one and bad one news combination. Dekang liquids which are pretty bad – as you stated – are regarded in Poland as pretty good. So you can imagine how bad must be the liquids which are considered in my country as worse than Dekang.

The good news for me is that there are much better liquids than Dekang which I tried. The bad news is that it’ll be a challenge to find some of these good liquids in my country. For some reason they aren’t as popular here as the bad liquids. I suspect that the cause of that strange situation is the price of these good liquids.
 

Coastal Cowboy

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Jun 13, 2013
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The only liquids from Dekang that I found vapable were tobacco flavors. I ended up buying a bottle of one of'em. The rest of the lineup was so-so at best. Maybe it's the quality of the liquid after all. The equipment sounds solid. So does the procedure. Process of elimination points to the juice, does it not?
 

bowchikiwowow

Full Member
Jun 9, 2013
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sounds to me like the coil is not set up properly (hotspotting) or the resistance is too low and maybe burning the juice. when a geni isnt setup correctly or run outside its voltage range (for the coil) its some of the nastiest burning grease taste ive ever gotten.

I agree with Trasher, i am a newbie (had numerous e-cig and mods for the past 4 months). I bought a genesis type atomizer and it sure is a pain in the a** to setup. i almost finished my stock of mesh and kanthal wire before i had the best vape experience so far.

it took me a long time to figure out what's the culprit of having hotspots after a few hits. for genesis-type atomizers,
i limit my ohm in .7 - 1 range. and that's it. no hotspot, no burnt taste. just pure flavor and the vapor production is crazy. (that is if you pull the end of ss wick to the positive post. picture this: leaning tower of pisa :)
 

cckk

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Jun 16, 2013
115
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Poland
I counted the votes collected in http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...n/351553-2012-best-best-e-liquids-awards.html taking into consideration tobacco blends only.

Here’s the list of the blends which gained more than one vote:

20 votes
Boba’s Bounty; Alien Visions

15 votes
Gandalf; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes

12 votes
Shadowfax; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes

9 votes
Pirates Booty; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes

6 votes
Serendipity; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes
GOLD; Nite Lite Vapor

5 votes
House Blend; Copper Creek
Tribecca; Halo

4 votes
Smooth Criminal; Ahlusion
Casablanca; BWB
Dragon’s Fire; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes
Heavenly Tobacco; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes
Renegade; Nite Lite Vapor

3 votes
Blue Grass Burley; Ahlusion
Gorilla Juice; Alien Visions
Twisted Tobacco; Copper Creek
Dark Horse; Heather’s Heavenly Vapes
RYW4; MaddCatt
Kentucky Premium Blend; Vermillion River

2 votes
RY4; BWB
RY4 Gold; Ikenvapes
Tennessee Cured; Johnson Creek
Tobacco Haze; Mom and Pop
Black Forest; Mountain Oak Vapors
MOV Gold; Mountain Oak Vapors
Bounty Hunter ; Nite Lite Vapor
Twilite; Nite Lite Vapor
RY4; Smokeless Image

Here’s the list of the producers which appeared on the above list with their blends (together with the numbers of gained votes):

7 blends
Heather’s Heavenly Vapes (53 votes)

4 blends
Nite Lite Vapor (14 votes)

2 blends
Alien Visions (23 votes)
Copper Creek (8 votes)
Ahlusion (7 votes)
BWB (6 votes)
Mountain Oak Vapors (4 votes)

1 blend
Halo (5 votes)
MaddCatt (3 votes)
Vermillion River (3 votes)
Ikenvapes (2 votes)
Johnson Creek (2 votes)
Mom and Pop (2 votes)
Smokeless Image (2 votes)
 

tnt56

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Aug 30, 2012
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I have to agree with Thrasher on this one. If your a new vapor, I don't believe you should have started with an RBA.
Get some kind of clearomizer and try it that way.
I use mechanical Legacy PV's and have great luck with all of them. (3). If my RBA isn't set up just perfect then it taste like baby poop.
If it's done right it's heaven.
Get a good meter or a device that will read the ohms for you.
Good luck with your journey my friend. I own several RBA's. Everything from the cheapest Chobra clone to a Z atty Pro and also a RSST and AGA T2's. No matter which one I use if the coil isn't setup just right with the OHMS and I have a bad wrap, then it doesn't matter if the RBA is $10usd or $150 usd. Their either gonna be really good or really bad.
 
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cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
47
Poland
IBCR Media,

Unfortunately I bought six Dekang liquids basing on some recommendation and on the test which I did in the shop on eGo Atomizers. So I have now six gifts for someone who likes Dekang products as well as six gifts for Polish Trendy products fans.

Thrasher,

My coils haven’t hot-spots. As for the resistance I can’t measure it but I measured the resistance of the entire Kanthal D 0.25 wire. It had 203 cm and the multimeter reported 60,7 Ω for that total length. It gives 29.9 Ω/m (the wire was sold as 27.5 Ω/m).

I just destroyed my pretty looking coil in order to measure its length. From – to + it had 40 mm. So theoretically it had the resistance 1.196 Ω. I can’t state that for sure because heating the coil may change its resistance. Anyway Genesis Atomizers are designed for low resistances so I still have some safety margin.

For two days I suspected that there’s something wrong with my setup. Since I sniffed the fresh liquids and I smelled the same unpleasant greasy oily smell which I feel when I vape those liquids I’m sure that the problem which I reported is caused by poor liquids.

bowchikiwowow,

From my perspective Genesis Atomizer is very easy to setup. Of course your experience may vary from mine.

My first coil was too long (5/6 as I remember) and the battery was unable to heat it enough to force it to glow. My second coil (3/4) was perfect. So I wasted just 10 cm of the Kanthal D wire and none Mesh.

Thrasher,

I reported that I tested all my Dekang liquids before I bought them using eGo Atomizers in the shop. So I did that test already. As for Trendy liquids I tried them on e-cigarette which I bought at the very beginning and they tasted and smelled acceptable.

I reported also that my Genesis Atomizer doesn’t change the taste nor the smell of the juices. They smell unpleasantly in the bottles and they smell the same way in my Genesis Mod. The eGo Atomizers and cartomizers provided with my e-cigarette change the taste and the smell of the liquids. My Genesis doesn’t do that.

tnt56,

Maybe I’ll buy today a few elements to measure the low resistance of my coils using that method: How to Measure Low Resistances - Robot Room.

As for cartomizers, clearomizers, etc. I don’t like them. I have a good looking and easy to maintain Genesis Atomizer and I’ll stick with it. I just need some good liquid. To buy it in Poland may be a challenge.

***

Here's my last coil:

DSCF4308-rot-crop-scale.jpg

(The wick is too thin but it’s 50 mm wide Mesh 400 wick and I had a problem to make it in a proper way – my standard wicks are 20–25 mm wide and fit perfectly to the hole in RSST Atomizer.)
 
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cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
47
Poland
A short research revealed that the liquids made by the producers which won the poll that I aggregated in the post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...taste-smell-genesis-atomizer.html#post9835113 (Summary of 2012 Best of the Best E-Liquids Awards) aren’t available in Poland.

According to some information which I found the liquids made by Halo such as Tribeca (5 votes in the poll by mwa102464) cost 69,99 PLN plus 7 PLN for shipping for a 30 ml bottle. It’s 76.99 PLN or 24.37 USD, or 18.32 EUR in total for 30 ml. For the comparison Dekang liquids cost in Poland 29.00 PLN or 11.40 USD, or 8.57 EUR for 30 ml. That’s the best explanation of the absence of good liquids in my country. So it seems that the only option for me is to buy the liquids abroad.
 
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cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
47
Poland
I checked the juices which gained three or more votes in the poll by mwa102464. If available I checked 18 mg/ml nicotine versions with VG only or more VG than PG. When 18 mg version was unavailable I checked the nearest stronger version. In all cases I checked the prices of 30 ml bottles. The numbers in parentheses are the numbers of the votes collected by the particular juices.

Alien Visions
http://avejuice.com/home.php

The site reports: “We are closed due to our order capacity for the day being reached. We will re-open tomorrow.” According to the information found in Internet it’s the situation which repeats on a regular basis – that’s the price of the popularity of AV juices.

Heather’s Heavenly Vapes
Heathers Heavenly Vapes, Top Quality Custom E-Liquids

Legend (15)* and Shadow (12)** Pirate’s Booty (9)***, Serendipity (6), Dragon’s Fire (4), Heavenly Tobacco (4), and Dark Horse (3) – 18 mg, 100% VG, No Menthol, 30 ml – 13.00 USD each.
___
* It appears in the poll as Gandalf but it changed the name to Legend.
** It appears in the poll as Shadowfax but it changed the name to Shadow.
*** It appears in the poll as Pirates Booty.
(I made the above corrections thanks to the kind help by Kanj.nguyen.)

Nite Lite Vapor
Shopping recommended at LiteCigUSA:
NiteLite Vapor e-Liquids

GOLD (6) and Renegade (4) – 24 mg*, 30 ml – 14.95 USD each.
___
* 18 mg is out of stock now.

Copper Creek
Welcome to Copper Creek - Online Store

House Blend (5) and Twisted Tobacco (3) – 18 mg, No Added PG, 30 ml – 16.50 USD each.

Halo
E-liquid USA | E-Cigarette Liquid | Electronic Cigarette | Halo E-Cigs

Tribeca (5)* – 18 mg, 30 ml – 19.99 USD.
___
* It appears in the poll as Tribecca.

Ahlusion

I couldn’t find the Ahlusion website – I found just a few reviews of the Ahlusion juices.

MaddCatt
MaddCatt Vapors

RyW4 (3)* – 18 mg, 25 PG / 75 VG, 30 ml – 17.00 USD.
___
* It appears in the poll as RYW4.

Vermillion River
Welcome to Vermillion River Premium E-Juice

Kentucky Premium Blend (3) – 20 mg*, Plastic Dropper Bottle, 30 ml – 17.95 USD.
___
* 18 mg isn’t available.
 
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cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
47
Poland
Before I’ll buy some of the mentioned above juices I tested six Dekang liquids which I bought because they’re respected in Poland.

(If you think you’re witty person try to invent some new “Polack Joke” and publish it here in my thread. I’ll make a subjective ranking of “Polack Jokes” published here. There’s one rule – the jokes have to concern smoking “delicious Dekang liquids” by Poles or Polacks.)

“Revenons à nos moutons” as say Frenchmen which are almost as funny as Poles (take into consideration that I’m Pole from Poland so I know how funny are Poles in fact). I tested Dekang liquids smelling them from the bottles. I have six Dekang liquids. I split them into three groups assigning to them from one to three asterisks. Be cautious: more asterisks mean that the particular liquid smells worse! In fact the differences between these liquids aren’t too distinct so the better code should use the asterisks with three, four, and five rays. Unfortunately there are no such characters in UTF8 – or I haven’t seen them so far – so I used full asterisks. To be honest I doubt personally that any Dekang liquid deserves even one full asterisk.

Dekang Desert ***
Dekang DK-TAB ***
Dekang Doff **
Dekang LM Nous *
Dekang Lucky color *
Dekang Pal-mal **

The above list is probably completely useless because I doubt that the next batch of Dekang liquids will keep the same parameters.
 

evilfrog

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To save on shipping you might try some of the European suppliers. For example: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/euro-suppliers/347468-after-8-e-shop-e-flavors-e-liquids.html.
There are others in the European Supplier sub-forum. There are also foreign language sub-forums (Polska) where EU members may be able to give you advice on high quality liquids that are a little closer to you. I'm sure there's American vendors who would love to have you as a customer, but unless you're making a big purchase it seems more sensible to find something closer.
 

cckk

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ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
115
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Poland
The present post will be interesting mainly for ECF members from Poland and maybe from some other countries which are small and poor (in the contrast to the big and rich ones).

A few days ago I found the extensive ranking of the liquids: Ranking liquidów do e-papierosów. It lists the liquids which are or were accessible in Poland.

If you aren’t from Poland and you still read that post I translated for you the table heading:

Marka – Brand
Nazwa – Name
Ranking – Ranking (Overall Evaluation)
Smak – Taste
Chmura – Cloud
Cena/Jakość – Price/Quality
Ocen – Number of Votes

(You can click those labels to sort the list the other way.)

***

I found a shop E-papierosy, papierosy elektroniczne, palenie papierosów - sklep internetowy eSmoking World offering LiQueen, mild, and provog liquids mentioned near the top of that list (as well as p1, drJack, and Flavour Art ones mentioned on the list and AROMATIV which is a new brand on the Polish market). The provog liquids are especially interesting because they are made on the base of glycerin – it isn’t easy to find such a liquid in Poland.

I bought and tried the following liquids:

● Cuban Tobacco, propylene glycol and glycerin, 18 mg; LiQueen
Subtle, smooth, and pleasant liquid. It has the delicate and a bit sweet taste and smell so it should be good to try as a starting point. Apart of Cuban Tobacco there are Fresh Tobacco, Natural Tobacco, Noble Tobacco, Tobacco Kiss, and United States of Tobacco liquids.

● Lux Tobacco (Concentrated), propylene glycol and glycerol, 18 mg; LiQueen
First really aromatic and sweet at the same time liquid which I tasted. From my point of view it could be even more aromatic. Anyway LiQueen Concentrated series seems to be the best for me. Apart of Lux Tobacco there are Aromatic Tobacco and Cigar Tobacco liquids in that series.

● MB (Mild Black), propylene glycol, 18 mg; mild
Smooth, balanced, and aromatic taste and smell. One of the dozens liquids trying to imitate the taste and smell of Marlboro – in contrast to some other imitations it tastes and smells well what doesn’t mean that it resembles Marlboro. It may be taken into account as an entry-level liquid. Apart of MB (Mild Black) there are Sahara imitating Camel cigarettes, LS (Legendary Special) imitating Lucky Strike cigarettes as well as Jamaica Tobacco, Tobacco, and “Papierosowy tradycyjny” (Traditional Cigarette) liquids.

● Tobacco, glycerol, 24 mg; provog
Theoretically the liquids based on glycerin (glycerol) are gentle in the comparison to the ones based on propylene glycol. In my case it worked the other way. Glycerin rinses out the mucus from the larynx. In the case of the laryngitis caused by a chain smoking the larynx is sensitive. Without the mucus the irritation of the larynx increases. In my case the effects were palpable after a quarter of an hour of inhaling that liquid: a tickle in the throat, suffocating cough, and a thick, viscous saliva. So the glycerin based liquids aren’t for me.

As for the other mentioned brands they don’t interest me:

● p1
It’s a Polish brand. 10 ml liquid costs 11 PLN. For the comparison LiQueen Concentrated which I prefer costs 20 PLN for 10 ml bottle and is a Chinese brand. Chinese labor force is cheaper than Polish labor force. Let’s assume that it’s cheaper two times. In such a case p1 produced in China would be cheaper two times – 5.5 PLN for 10 ml. When I see two similar products: first which costs 5.5 PLN and the other which costs 20 PLN I have no doubt which one is worse.

● Flavour Art
● AROMATIV
They are advertised as “subtle” or “light”. Since the regular liquids are subtle for me the subtle ones would be completely tasteless and odorless from my point of view.

● drJack
It offers three tobacco liquids which imitate Camel, Marlboro, and Marlboro Light cigarettes. I don’t believe in all those imitations though I understand the marketing idea standing behind that. Also the price of that liquid seems to me too low in the comparison to the prices of the good liquids which I mentioned above.

***

All the above information about the mentioned brands and liquids is based on my private impressions and opinions. Your impressions may vary from mine. Especially glycerin-based liquids such as those produced by provog may be friendly for you.

I tested all these liquids using Genesis Atomizer. The other devices types may produce the other sensations when used with those liquids.
 

cckk

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Jun 16, 2013
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Poland
evilfrog,

Thank you for the information concerning European suppliers. It’s worth to know about that option.

In my previous post I described three liquids made by two producers which are accessible in Poland and are good enough for me. I suppose that the other liquids by those producers will be good for me as well.

I’m a lucky devil. I found a shop selling the liquids mentioned in the previous post which is three minutes of walk from my house (I walk fast). So – according to your suggestion – I acted sensible and I found something which lies closer to my home than the United States of America.

As for Polish e-cigarettes forums I’m aware that they exist but I avoid them. Poles are strange people. For example they are offended by “Polack Jokes”. I’m not offended by them though most of them are incredibly stupid. The only thing which offends me is a stupidity. But it doesn’t offend me personally. I’m simply offended by the fact that the stupid people exist. Believe me: there’s a lot of stupid people in Poland. I suppose that in the other countries stupid people are in majority as well but I don’t live in all those countries so that isn’t my problem.

Thank you for your kind assistance.

Kanj.nguyen,

Thank you for that information. I’ll update my post if it’s still possible after a few days.

Mixing own liquids is an appealing idea but at the very beginning it’s better to master the device using ready-made liquids. I was lucky and I found some liquids that are suitable for me, available in Poland, and sold in the shop near my house.

***

As for the resistance of my coils I collected all the necessary elements to measure it with the exception of the most important one: 220 Ω resistor, 1–5% tolerance, 1/2–1/4 W, ±50–350 ppm/K. So I still can’t check my coils and answer to Thrasher, bowchikiwowow, and the other ones. Sorry!
 

articus

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Check that : PBusardo Review - Smoktech RSST Genesis Atomizer
A PBusardo Review - Smoktech RSST Genesis Atomizer - YouTube

With RSST mesh dont need to be oxidized.
Cut left over wires, they might give you a bad taste.
Align air hole with mesh!
Try to vape it with 100% USP VG oil, if no bad taste, then that's your juice.
If still bad taste, get 500 mesh, burn oil from it and get 32G wire.
 
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