ASH Stops E-cig Bullies...

[Kamanjah]

Slightly off topic here, but it looks like any organization can set up an account on this prlog.org site and submit press releases for free. We have several organizations; the first that come to mind are ECA and the Long Island Vapers Club.

Maybe they could start issuing press releases too?

____________

 

[BigJimW]

Slightly off topic here, but it looks like any organization can set up an account on this prlog.org site and submit press releases for free. We have several organizations; the first that come to mind are ECA and the Long Island Vapers Club.

Maybe they could start issuing press releases too?

____________

Check my sig.

Been doing it all along.

 

[Casey C]

Ohio is clearly east of the mid-line of the United States, therefore making it Mid-east. It's right next to Pennsylvania, for crying out loud!

yes, Ohio is in the eastern half of the United States, but there is no such term as mid-eastern United States - there is however something known as the Midwestern united states, which is one of the four regions recognized by the US census bureau

Midwestern United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[unknwn]

Take it from a lifetime "Buckeye" , Ohio is in the EAST part of the country, I've never heard it referred to as "Mid-" anything.
There are plenty who describe it as the "North coast" .
It is also fairly popular (and accurate) to call Ohio "the heartland" (look at it on a map, it is even shaped like a heart).

 

[larcat]

He could never post here, Illustrated Man. There's often no reason, logic or intelligence behind posted rants. I'd love an intelligent discussion with an obviously learned and intelligent (but misdirected) man -- but it won't be here. Regrettably, most discussions here quickly drag down to screaming and kicking worthy of a four-year-old denied his candy. And many applaud the tantrums. Go figure.

TB --- I respect your measured stance and general tone/intelligence.

In this regard, however, you are wrong. Banzhaf, learned and intelligent though he may be, doesn't engage in anything but screaming and kicking.

The man wants to disallow smokers from seeing their children.

Seriously ponder that for a moment.

-Larcat

 

[brownbrown4]

Take it from a lifetime "Buckeye" , Ohio is in the EAST part of the country, I've never heard it referred to as "Mid-" anything.
There are plenty who describe it as the "North coast" .
It is also fairly popular (and accurate) to call Ohio "the heartland" (look at it on a map, it is even shaped like a heart).

OFF-Topic
i am from ohio too.
it was discovered after the east coast, it was The west of america, before louis and clark! then it became the MID-West after the other states were added.
The heart land is referred to as where most of the farms that produced America's food are. Below ohio.
Im from SANDUSKY "Cedar Point" on the lake... and its never been called the " north coast" around my area.

ON-TOPIC:
Well the ECA is getting some resources slowly. it's being mentioned on the news when PV's do come up.

BB

 

[BigJimW]

TB --- I respect your measured stance and general tone/intelligence.

In this regard, however, you are wrong. Banzhaf, learned and intelligent though he may be, doesn't engage in anything but screaming and kicking.

The man wants to disallow smokers from seeing their children.

Seriously ponder that for a moment.

-Larcat

Agreed. And not only that, ASH supplies all the legal forms to make sure that happens. Banzhaf is nothing more than a modern day Hitler wannabe that doesn't get as much attention as he craves.

I love how he got pwned by MSNBC

YouTube - MSNBC taking on that ambulance chasing lawyer John Banzhaf

 

[TropicalBob]

Larcat: I can't stand him! I just acknowledge a formidable foe when I see one.

 

[Scaralouche]

too bad nobody watches msnbc... haha.

 

[TheIllustratedMan]

OFF-Topic
i am from ohio too.
it was discovered after the east coast, it was The west of america, before louis and clark! then it became the MID-West after the other states were added.
The heart land is referred to as where most of the farms that produced America's food are. Below ohio.
Im from SANDUSKY "Cedar Point" on the lake... and its never been called the " north coast" around my area.

ON-TOPIC:
Well the ECA is getting some resources slowly. it's being mentioned on the news when PV's do come up.

BB

Who knew that one little joke could derail a thread so badly? I apologize, and move on...

 

[brownbrown4]

Who knew that one little joke could derail a thread so badly? I apologize, and move on...

lol,

 

[WinningQuitter]

Perhaps if the mods could make a thread that only allows a select few people to participate, but allows the rest of us to view it. I would love to see you as well as others discuss e-cigs with Banzhaf.

I fully agree with this. Although it may not be egalitarian enough for some, it will separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

I'd rather have one of the most respected members of the forum (at least one of my most respected) going head to head than every dipstick calling anyone who disagrees a ......

<rant> I mean, there are a lot of ...... out there, but seriously, EVERYONE who disagrees with you??? </rant>

Just as a heads up though, I am a part of another forum that instituted a similar policy, to only let seasoned vets talk in the sub forum, and although I loved it (and learned a TON), it did not have enough readers to stick around. FWIW.


WQ

 

[deewal]

TB --- I respect your measured stance and general tone/intelligence.

In this regard, however, you are wrong. Banzhaf, learned and intelligent though he may be, doesn't engage in anything but screaming and kicking.

The man wants to disallow smokers from seeing their children.

Seriously ponder that for a moment.

-Larcat

Well how about just making him an offer he can't refuse ?

 

[DC2]

I fully agree with this. Although it may not be egalitarian enough for some, it will separate the wheat from the chaff so to speak.

I'd rather have one of the most respected members of the forum (at least one of my most respected) going head to head than every dipstick calling anyone who disagrees a ......

<rant> I mean, there are a lot of ...... out there, but seriously, EVERYONE who disagrees with you??? </rant>

Just as a heads up though, I am a part of another forum that instituted a similar policy, to only let seasoned vets talk in the sub forum, and although I loved it (and learned a TON), it did not have enough readers to stick around. FWIW.


WQ

This is America, where free speech is supposed to be important, right?

Having said that, I wouldn't want to see any random ......... taking on the Banzhaf ..........
So I will gladly refrain from participation myself, in spite of my extreme level of intelligence.
Because, in the end, I would gladly sink to ......... level and be proud of doing so.

Because yeah, I let my emotions rip whenever I want to, and I want to a lot of times.
Because my caveman instinct sometimes seems to have some very intelligent things to say.

But I guess we have to kiss and make pretty with that evil scumpig.
For a reason I have yet to ascertain.

 

[harmony gardens]

Larcat: I can't stand him! I just acknowledge a formidable foe when I see one.

I can acknowledge a formidable foe, but this guy is a nut, too. He not only doesn't play "fair",,, he's loose with the facts, and his success is a huge house of cards. Joe Mc Carthy was a formidable foe at one time, too, but alas,,, he was exposed. There are many well reasoned counter voices to him, but they don't get attention.

Depression is anger turned inward, and it's either get angry, or let the forces against you roll over you.

I want to stand from the highest hill and shout,,, hey,,, this is a product that can be 99% safer. What is there to think about?? Get it done!!

The man is calling smokers killers because of thier second hand smoke,,, using his own logic,,, isn't someone who is trying to prevent a safer alternative from coming to the market a killer, too?

 

[halfevildruid]

haha maybe he meant the mid-east-west im ROTFLMMFAO!!!

Ohio is clearly east of the mid-line of the United States, therefore making it Mid-east. It's right next to Pennsylvania, for crying out loud!

 

[Scaralouche]

ive made that mistake before.

 

[grimmer255]

This is what I am hoping when or if ecigs are banned....Im hoping that there will be thousands filing law suits for not allowing them to pursue an alternative to smoking. As one senater said it you can dry up letuce and then smoke it you will still get cancer. It's the smoke that kills not nicotine.

 

[Territoo]

ASH takes credit via PR claim
ASH Stops E-Cigarette Bullies; Mid-East Moves Against E-Cigarettes

ASH Stops E-Cigarette Bullies; Mid-East Moves Against E-Cigarettes

Excerpts:

Aug 20, 2009 – Action on Smoking and Health (ASH), America's first antismoking organization, recently stood up to an e-cigarette company which tried to bully a newspaper into retracting a story critical of their product by charging that it "could lead to the deaths of smokers and electronic cigarette users," and claiming that the new product was 100 to 1000 times less likely to kill than conventional cigarettes.
http://www.officialwire.com/main.php?action=posted_news& ...

But ASH wrote to the Qatar newspaper, arguing that it should not be bullied by the largely unproven assertions being made by the company, and pointing out the complainer had a clear conflict of interest and little scientific or medical credibility. The newspaper has not retracted the story, and in nearby Dubai, the importation of e-cigarettes is being block because of their potential dangers. http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=dat ...=

My Remarks: More on the link if one is inclined to read the same drivel which basically is a brag piece from Banzhaf via ASH. He's spending that 2nd quarter funding from Pfizer in a cheap PR war with alphabet scientists on board to deliver appropriate one liners. What say you...

This coming from an organization with a lot of "largely unproven assertions" (bold being my emphasis) on their own website:

1. Current smokers who would otherwise be persuaded to quit -- by health warnings, restrictions on public and workplace smoking, etc. -- may instead switch to e-cigarettes; a move which may reduce their overall health risks, but is a course of action still far more dangerous than quitting.

2. Current smokers at elevated risk for cardiovascular problems may switch to e-cigarettes, thinking that they are far safer. But actually any decrease in health risk relates to cancer (since e-cigarettes reportedly contain far fewer carcinogens), and not to cardiovascular problems (as to which nicotine is the main culprit).

3. E-cigarettes may be less likely to reduce nicotine dependence than other nicotine replacement products because the almost-instantaneous absorption of nicotine through the lungs is more likely to provide the nicotine "kick" or "high" addicted smokers crave than other methods where the absorption is much more gradual.

4. Those in the vicinity of e-cigarette users -- including infants breastfeeding and in arms, other young children, the elderly and others at higher risk -- will be forced to inhale a mixture of nicotine (a deadly poison) and propylene glycol; the health consequences of which are not known.

5. E-cigarettes -- especially those sold with flavors -- may serve as training wheels for youngsters still too young to smoke, but not too young to become addicted to nicotine, and to becoming accustomed to the gestures and mannerisms of smokers. Being able to imitate older teens who smoke, while avoiding the smell of real smoking, may be tempting to young children; a temptation apparently not present with nicotine gum, patches, sprays, etc.

6. Regardless of the safety of any particular e-cigarette, the danger of the FDA's failure to take decisive action is that it can open the door to many other nicotine-delivery products which may be even more dangerous, and as to which smokers will serve as guinea pigs. All other nicotine delivery products are regulated by the FDA, and must contain warnings. Some still require prescriptions.


Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!

 

[Territoo]

I, for one, would invite him to post here and engage in an intelligent discourse on the subject. I think we could learn a bit from each other. So, if anyone from ASH is reading this, please invite Mr. Banzhaf to create an account and post here presenting his view. I also encourage all members of ECF to, should this happen, NOT FLAME the man. Respectful conversation should be the action of the day.

...not that I think this will happen, but you never know.

Perhaps if the mods could make a thread that only allows a select few people to participate, but allows the rest of us to view it. I would love to see you as well as others discuss e-cigs with Banzhaf.

I think this is a good idea, but I can't see Banzhaf actually agreeing to this.

Two threads could be started: one limited to a select few and the other open for all to post. (Even on this second thread, outright flaming should not occur, it's main reason for existance is to allow everyone to post their opinions while keeping the first one neat.)

All forum members could initially indicate if they want to participate or not in the first thread, and members could also indicate who they would like to see participate in this discussion. Mods would select those who would participate.