Antidepressants and Quitting

[Madame Psychosis]

I have struggled with depression since I was 15. Name an antidepressant and I have probably been on it at one point or another. Effexor was probably the worst. The only problem with the e-cig is that plain nic. gives me too much anxiety, yet I tend to chain-vape, searching for that something that isn't there... the calming side. I weaned myself off antidepressants as I was tired of being a zombie. I prefer depression to a life of mechanical, zombie-like living, devoid of emotion. I do make an extraction of passionflower that I add to my e-cig. It really makes a huge difference in the level I vape. I get much more relaxation, much like a cig. As a result, I vape less than I did at first. I am not sure if any manufacturer uses PF, though some do use valerian, but that makes me too sleepy in the daytime.
I don't know, but since adding the PF (which acts as an mao inhibitor), I have been in a much better mood overall. There is a discussion here in the forums about it (do a search on MAOI, or passionflower). If you are currently on anti-depressants I wouldn't add it, as it could be too much. However, it is completely legal, and gives me the "calm" effect cigarettes provide.

That's interesting - what % are you using? Is it an alcohol or glycerin extract?
Passionflower had a funny taste to me when I tried it - do you notice that?

And you're right, people on existing medications for depression probably shouldn't try it at all, but it's an intriguing discovery.

 

[martha1014]

Anyone that has experienced true debilitating depression would welcome a medication that would help no matter what side effects it had. I am bipolar and went from major depression to mania. I take a handful of medications everyday to keep me stable. I went through the most horrible depression I think anybody could have. I was unable to even get out of the bed just laying there crying all day. It took Effexor for a couple of years but it made me sweat profusely. One day I decided to just quit and never experienced any withdrawal or side effects. I no longer sweat. The fact that I take alot of other meds may have prevented me from the withdrawal from Effexor. In the past when I would try to quit cigarettes I would get depressed but when I quit cigarettes and started on ecigs is did just fine. I feel it is more related to the nicotine than actual cigarette smoke. Trying to quit cigarettes I would experience anxiety type symptoms but with ecigs I do just fine.

Thank God for ecigs. I may actually live a little longer.

 

[four2109]

... I do make an extraction of passionflower that I add to my e-cig.

I have been using PF too and it does take that edge off.
What do you mean by "make an extraction that you add..."?

 

[whimzkool]

I make an extraction of the PF alkaloids (from fresh, dried PF herb powder) in an alcohol base, I add vg once I have reduced it to an alkaloid "goo" to make it vapable. Literally two drops in my liquid is all it takes. I am working on glycerin extraction as someone had inquired about it. I think it will have to sit for several weeks before it is ready to test. As far as percentage of alkaloid concentration goes, I couldn't tell you. As a percentage of my e-liquid, it is probably about 5-7%. My kids call me a hippy as I am always messing about with various herbs (the legal kind). It was the herbs that helped me through anti-depressant withdrawal. My doctor is completely on board with it as he doesn't know what else to try. I realize that not everyone can or should stop their meds, so I am not advocating the use of anything in place of what works for you.

 

[Katmar]

Go for it, Madame Psychosis. That thread would probably go long....
And I DO agree that sometimes antidepressants are necessary. I have a friend with atypical depression who is on a boatload of meds, and it is the ONLY way she can function. My niece is bipolar, and she is on some heavy duty drugs. (Abilify has been her saviour!).
For folks like me, whether is is situational or from a chronic illness, I think they should never prescribe a drug like effexor, because of the syndrome that affects most of us coming off of it. If people need it for a lifetime, they are not going to experience that particular hell.

 

[Drozd]

I make an extraction of the PF alkaloids (from fresh, dried PF herb powder) in an alcohol base, I add vg once I have reduced it to an alkaloid "goo" to make it vapable. Literally two drops in my liquid is all it takes. I am working on glycerin extraction as someone had inquired about it. I think it will have to sit for several weeks before it is ready to test. As far as percentage of alkaloid concentration goes, I couldn't tell you. As a percentage of my e-liquid, it is probably about 5-7%. My kids call me a hippy as I am always messing about with various herbs (the legal kind). It was the herbs that helped me through anti-depressant withdrawal. My doctor is completely on board with it as he doesn't know what else to try. I realize that not everyone can or should stop their meds, so I am not advocating the use of anything in place of what works for you.

being that you mess around with herbs, i just wanted to mention in case everyone didn't know that welbutrin comes from St. Johns wort too....so that might be another herb that some people might be interested in using..I believe that you can get it in powdered form at the health food store..so it might be able to be distiled in alcohol or suspended in vg not sure about that..

 

[Madame Psychosis]

being that you mess around with herbs, i just wanted to mention in case everyone didn't know that welbutrin comes from St. Johns wort too....so that might be another herb that some people might be interested in using..I believe that you can get it in powdered form at the health food store..so it might be able to be distiled in alcohol or suspended in vg not sure about that..

Careful. Many people on this kind of a forum are considering, or have been on, Wellbutrin.

Wellbutrin has no chemical or functional relationship to St. John's Wort.

Wellbutrin is bupropion, a single-compound pharmaceutical antidepressant with some understood properties as a selective norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor, and a dopamine reuptake inhibitor at high doses (sometimes called an NDRI, sometimes an SNRI). Prescription only, so your doctor monitors the drug interactions. It has potential side effects (with which many here are familiar!) but the dosage is controlled and monitored by your doctor.

St. John's Wort is an over-the-counter herb with a ton of compounds in it, but the suspected active ingredients of hyperforin and hypericin (the mechanism of action is unclear, though some believe it acts similarly to the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, SSRIs, like Prozac). SJW has potential side effects and many known drug interactions when taken in oral supplement dosages.
(It messes with many drug-metabolizing liver enzymes, including CYP3A4, which metabolizes a ton of other drugs, so it can alter the effectiveness of other medications you're taking. Important ones, like asthma medications and birth control pills. And if you take it with any serotonin-enhancing drugs such as SSRIs, you're in the ER. It may be OTC, but it's not candy.)
Talk to your doctor before using it in supplement dosages, as an antidepressant or for anything else.

I didn't say anything like this with the Passionflower, because the poster is using the small quantities consumed in vaping and is obviously familiar with the extract (and even cleared it with a doc).
Also, more generally, Passionflower doesn't mess quite so much with other drugs, so I think more caution is warranted with SJW.

I know you mentioned vaping it...but I wanted to make it clear that people shouldn't take your claim as an invitation to try St John's Wort pills as an OTC counterpart to Wellbutrin, which it's not (and I wouldn't vape it if you're taking any medications of any kind, personally).
People should get medical clearance before taking something over-the-counter with SJW's drug interactions and potential psychoactive properties, especially if they are depressed or taking antidepressants already.

 

[maureengill]

Okay, sooner or later I'm going to just bite the bullet and create a social group for those of us with depression...

Did you create this yet?? I would definitely join...

Maureen

 

[goonie]

Sorry if this is off Topic ... has anyone tried quitting Pristiq? (It's a metabolite of effexor). When I got off Cymbarfa - I got horrible headaches and brain zaps when I looked left or right quickly .... It it going to be worse, because I was thinking about stopping for new years.

Thanks.

 

[Katmar]

goonie,
if you had those reactions from cymbalta, chances are they WILL happen again with prestiq. Good Luck and go slowly

 

[Bekinder]

Hi
I'm on a low dose of Effexor for the past 2-3 years. Did try to get off of it, but as some of you have experienced, can hardly be done. I bought a huge supply of SAM-e and even though I take the Effexor, I have found this help my mood a lot.

Moods with me change with the season. Winter being the worse time for me and Spring being the best. Have to keep up social interaction during those winter months or
I get cabin fever really bad. SAM-e, as many of you know I'm sure is found in the
vitamin section...mood support, joint comfort. and liver health is what is advertised about it. I do find it helps a great deal.

 

[316lvm]

I know this thread is about depression and quitting cigs, but I just have to put in my .02 worth.

I've read alot (here) about people being anti-effexor. I can understand that some people have had negative experiences with it, but to suggest to others not to take it is ill advice. With any psychotropic medication, there will be positive and negative affects. Medication is dependent upon a person's chemical makeup. Some do better on SSRI', some on beta-blockers, some on benzo's.

I've been on Effexor for 7 years now - it is the only medication that has kept me stable this long. Wellbutrin caused major anxiety attacks for me, but for my friend, it has been a miracle drug. I've been on lithium, wellbutrin, depakote, respiradol, haldol, cogentin, prozac, zoloft, elavil, buspar, thorazine,ativan, klonopin, celexa, clozopine, zyprexa, clozaril, lexapro, paxil, neurontin, adderall, tegretol, trazadone, anafranil, perphenazine, zyprexa, remeron, stellazine, and on and on and on. I've done the herbal remedies as well.

All psychotropic meds have side effects. It is up to you to decided whether or not you can live with the side effects. For me, the benefits far outweigh the side effects.

The down side of any medication is that it is through trial and error that a person finds a med that works. After that, it's a fine tuning of the medication or medications. And for some of us, there will never be a day that we will be med free.

It's one thing to share our experiences with the meds we have taken, it's quite another to advise someone not to take a med. Maybe that one medication makes the difference between night and day.

Just like the vappers on this forum. I would never tell someone not to vape 36mg or higher, nor tell them that they should only vape VG at 11 mg.

Vapping, medications - it's all a learning process as to what is effective for us as individuals. We must gather as much information as we can to make well informed decisions for and about ourselves.

 

[Giantfan]

Try lexapro. Works quickly, and has few side effects. Coming off it is really easy also, with no side effects.

Sometimes people need a little medical assistance, and antidepressants can be effective tools to get your life back on track. I have very limited experience with them, but I did use lexapro for a bit, and it was fantastic. I would love to take it again, but my philosophy is that life is hard and your mind will be hard on you, but I'd prefer to live like myself instead of being permanently chemically influenced.

But it is nice to know there is something out there that can help if all else fails.

 

[Debbie]

My husband is not on any medications. I am on an MAOI.

I was able to quit cigarettes after about 2 weeks of using an ecig. I just didn't feel like reaching for a yucky tasting cigarette any more.

Even though I had smoked an average of 2 1/2 pack for 40+ years. Each time I picked up an analog after using the ecig, the analogs tasted worse and worse and the ecig better and better.

My husband, on the other hand, has had problems. He has smoked an average of 1 1/2 packs a day for 40+ years. He immediately cut his analog use upon trying the ecig, then increased it, cut it again, etc. He has not given up analogs, and finds it is still hard to do even with an ecig.

My husband prefers tobacco flavor juices. I prefer all other flavors (if I wanted tobacco, I could smoke cigarettes).

Debbie

 

[Madame Psychosis]

Vapping, medications - it's all a learning process as to what is effective for us as individuals. We must gather as much information as we can to make well informed decisions for and about ourselves.

316lvm, you hit the nail on the head.

So many meds I could name, I hated, but they obviously work for other people. There is no "evil" medicine; there is only medicine that doesn't work for you.

The depression group is in development....working on the ground rules.

 

[Katmar]

While I agree about different meds working differently on different people, (that was a mouthful!!), I believe that there certainly ARE evil medicines. Maybe not evil, exactly, but not helpful.

 

[whimzkool]

Yeah, I had very strange visual tracer and paranoia effects with the cymbalta and the effexor. My doc. said that my effects weren't listed as side-effects, yet that he didn't doubt my disturbance was real, as the two drugs are related. Gee, thanks for the heads-up doc!

 

[sherid]

I know this thread is about depression and quitting cigs, but I just have to put in my .02 worth.

I've read alot (here) about people being anti-effexor. I can understand that some people have had negative experiences with it, but to suggest to others not to take it is ill advice. With any psychotropic medication, there will be positive and negative affects. Medication is dependent upon a person's chemical makeup. Some do better on SSRI', some on beta-blockers, some on benzo's.

I've been on Effexor for 7 years now - it is the only medication that has kept me stable this long. Wellbutrin caused major anxiety attacks for me, but for my friend, it has been a miracle drug. I've been on lithium, wellbutrin, depakote, respiradol, haldol, cogentin, prozac, zoloft, elavil, buspar, thorazine,ativan, klonopin, celexa, clozopine, zyprexa, clozaril, lexapro, paxil, neurontin, adderall, tegretol, trazadone, anafranil, perphenazine, zyprexa, remeron, stellazine, and on and on and on. I've done the herbal remedies as well.

All psychotropic meds have side effects. It is up to you to decided whether or not you can live with the side effects. For me, the benefits far outweigh the side effects.

The down side of any medication is that it is through trial and error that a person finds a med that works. After that, it's a fine tuning of the medication or medications. And for some of us, there will never be a day that we will be med free.

It's one thing to share our experiences with the meds we have taken, it's quite another to advise someone not to take a med. Maybe that one medication makes the difference between night and day.

Just like the vappers on this forum. I would never tell someone not to vape 36mg or higher, nor tell them that they should only vape VG at 11 mg.

Vapping, medications - it's all a learning process as to what is effective for us as individuals. We must gather as much information as we can to make well informed decisions for and about ourselves.

I would advise anyone who does not absolutely need to take anti-depressants to not blindly take Effexor. To do so is to guarantee that one will either remain on Effexor for life or suffer the very real and horrifying withdrawl symptoms. Doctors should not be handing out these prescriptions to every patient that is feeling a bit sad or anxious. Effexor should be reserved for those patients with chronic depression. It is a miracle drug only for those who could not otherwise recover from serious illness. For others, the lasting effects of the drug are more worrisome than a temporary depression.

 

[MadeyeTony]

Wow this thread really took off. It sounds like I am pretty lucky with my choice of a GP. He gave me a long warning talk before prescribing me the Effexor. He joked that during his residency they used to call it "side-effexor". He also told me right up front that you can't just quit taking the stuff cold turkey, but that we would have to ween off it for a long while.

I have not had any side effects with the lower dosage, other than what I stated in the OP. Although I have forgotten to take it before and holy crap it sucked! I'd get the shakes and sweat profusely.

All in all, I was glad to have made the choice to take it though, as it really helped with my anxiety and occasional depression. I'm sorry to hear that some of you had a real problem with it. It almost sounds like its due more to the incompetence of your doctors than the drug itself.

I talked to my doctor again, and I'm going back up to the full dosage until I get this smoking whipped. We then discussed a plan to ween off in the space of six months to a year.

Life is too short to spend it wrapped in depression. Get help, find a really good doctor, and do whatever it takes to overcome. Good luck everyone!

 

[Katmar]

In my case, it was both the drug and the incompetance of doctors not aware of the effects of effexor. As Sherid said, it is fine if you are going to be a lifer on the drug. It DOES help. It is only when you try to wean off, and trust me, evening weaning is long, painful, horrid. I know people who were removing one grain at a time from their capsule. You even mentioned when you miss a dose!!
This drug should NOT be prescribed for temporary situational depression or anxiety OR any other reason unless the patient will be on it for life.