American Spirit Cigarettes better than E-Cigs???

[windylou723]

Hi everyone!
I have been vaping e-cigs for a couple of months now, and love it. I got started when I saw my dad vaping an e-cigar, starting researching e-cigs online, and found this wonderful place

The question I have, as I would love for my brother to get off analogs, is....Are American Spirit cigarettes better for you than e-cigs?

I ask this, already knowing the answer is NO! BUT, my sister-in-law, who is my brother's wife, is constantly trying to start fights with me whenever she sees me vaping my e-cigs, telling me how unsafe they are for me. My brother (her husband, who smokes American Spirits), tried my e-cigs a few times, and was very interested in them.

She says that because American Spirits are all natural and have no additives (and she says WHO KNOWS what is all in my e-cig!), that they are MUCH safer than my e-cigs! She says she would never "let" my brother use or waste money on e-cigs, because of the PG in them (apparently she said she has researched PG for the past 5 years, which I know is a blatant LIE, but she needs to argue with me on this, as well as everything else in life, to everyone else also!) She is very much a Know-It-All, and cannot possibly be wrong about anything. She says that because PG (propylene glycol) is in our nic-juice, and it is also put into antifreeze, etc, that there is no way she's going to have her husband inhale anything into his lungs that has PG in it! I left last time I saw her, of course remembering LATER that you can also get nic-juice made with VG (vegetable glycerin), but by then it was too late. I am sure she would still argue with me that there are tons of things wrong with VG also, being that it still isn't the wonderful American Spirit no-additive, all-natural cigarette that her husband smokes. By the way, she used to smoke also, but did quit when she first got pregnant, so I would "think" that she knows the hazards of cigarettes, since she is so very smart, even if there are no additives in them 8-o

I will probably see her this weekend, and am actually dreading it. I will have my e-cigs with me, and am not looking forward to her starting another argument with me, about how bad my e-cigs are, and why don't I just smoke American Spirits, like her husband, so I won't be "harmed" by all the things that are in my e-cigs!

I would really appreciate some support for e-cigs vs. American Spirits, so I can give her some concrete information and not look like an idiot, which sometimes I do feel like around her.

Thanks!

Wendy

 

[AngusATAT]

Propylene Glycol isn't the ingredient in antifreeze, that would be Ethylene Glycol. Propylene Glycol is food grade stuff, found in a lot of things we ingest every day. It's very safe.

Any time you inhale something that is burned, you get carcinogens. That crap will kill you.

Your sister-in-law is very wrong.

 

[SLDS181]

(and she says WHO KNOWS what is all in my e-cig!)

She's clueless, we know exactly whats in the juice.

that they are MUCH safer than my e-cigs!

Very wrong right there, she is clueless. PG is in salad dressing, mouth wash, food - and used in inhalers, in hospital HVAC systems, its a safe sanitizing agent.

She says that because PG (propylene glycol) is in our nic-juice, and it is also put into antifreeze

NON-TOXIC antifreeze, actually. It doesn't work as well as the toxic stuff, ethylene glycol.

I would recommend you tell her to start looking at the ingredients of the food in her fridge. Nicotine aside, she is ingesting everything used in nic juice. In much bigger quantities, too.

 

[SLDS181]

And as Angus said, its the smoke. Buyer was right. Smoke has the tar and carcinogens, and no matter what you smoke, no matter the brand, cigarettes are worse than e-cigs. I still challenge anyone who demonstrate a single ingredient that would show otherwise.

 

[WILDJC]

It's the smoke that's the danger and unhealthy, no matter what you light up.

 

[windylou723]

Angus,
Thank you for backing me up!

I know that PG is in alot of food stuff, I have also told her that. But she has researched all the bad things in PG, blah, blah, blah....I wish I could remember all the things she was spouting off, but it was a month or more ago, so I don't even remember it all. But her disdain and stance against e-cigs has really been eating at me. To want her husband (my brother) to keep smoking American Spirits instead of giving e-cigs a try, really ticks me off.

I do know that if/when I tell her that anything burned (American Spirits) produces carcinogens, she is going to spout back with...."Well, what do you think you're doing, you're "burning" that nic-juice that you're inhaling!" Arrrrgh

I am just so frustrated, and I haven't even started the trip to our family get-together today, where I will probably see her. Maybe she will be sick and won't make it!! LOL

 

[SLDS181]

I know that PG is in alot of food stuff, I have also told her that. But she has researched all the bad things in PG, blah, blah, blah....I wish I could remember all the things she was spouting off, but it was a month or more ago, so I don't even remember it all. But her disdain and stance against e-cigs has really been eating at me. To want her husband (my brother) to keep smoking American Spirits instead of giving e-cigs a try, really ticks me off.

She's full of crap. Theres nothing bad in PG. The FDA considers it perfectly safe.

I do know that if/when I tell her that anything burned (American Spirits) produces carcinogens, she is going to spout back with...."Well, what do you think you're doing, you're "burning" that nic-juice that you're inhaling!" Arrrrgh

Burning is oxidation, a chemical reaction.

Whats happening in your e-cig is a physical change. Like water turning to steam, it doesnt stop being water.

But when you burn something, it stops being what it was - it makes a chemical change.

Again, she's 100% ignorant.

 

[AngusATAT]

Hopefully someone much better versed in the details can point you to articles that you can print out and show to her to back up your position. That would be a first good step.

As for your brother... well, I'm just not sure what I would do if my wife decided to dictate to me what I can and cannot do. I don't do that to her, and would be kinda ...... if she tried doing it to me. You may want to talk to him privately and explain things to him and let him make his decision. That way it's not you vs. your sister-in-law. That can create some bad blood between you.

 

[Justncredible]

'Freebase' nicotine - why some some cigarettes may be more addictive - Health News, Health & Families - The Independent

Brands were compared with a laboratory "reference" cigarette containing 1 per cent freebase nicotine. The results ranged from 1 per cent or 2 per cent to 36 per cent for a speciality brand called American Spirit.

American Spirt cigs are the worst for you and are over processed with ammonia to produce a more addictive smoke. Thats part of the problem with extracting nicotine from processed tobacco. Sadly she belives cheap marketing ploys, kinda like 150 years ago and the snake oil salesman. There is a sucker born every secound.

 

[jj2]

I smoked Native (all natural) and I attached another filter that took out a lot of the tar and chemicals that they deemed natural. I had to clean the filters out nightly and believe me when I say I collected a lot of junk and it was thick, and dark, and smelled horrible.
I'm not saying what chemicals and other stuff that the filters didn't take out were no danger to me--I know better. But I certainly believe that is was more the smoke.
Tell her to go rake some leaves (pure and all natural--no chemicals added) and stand over them while they are burning and breath it for the same amount of time it takes hubby to smoke a cigarette, and then have her stand over some steaming water, and then ask which effected her the worst.
If she won't do that, buy your brother a reusable filter so he can see what he's taking in, and then tell him that those things don't remove everything. Then you take a puff of the e-cig and exhale into a paper towel. Believe me they will both see the light.

 

[BOREMAN]

Angus,
Thank you for backing me up!

I know that PG is in alot of food stuff, I have also told her that. But she has researched all the bad things in PG, blah, blah, blah....I wish I could remember all the things she was spouting off, but it was a month or more ago, so I don't even remember it all. But her disdain and stance against e-cigs has really been eating at me. To want her husband (my brother) to keep smoking American Spirits instead of giving e-cigs a try, really ticks me off.

I do know that if/when I tell her that anything burned (American Spirits) produces carcinogens, she is going to spout back with...."Well, what do you think you're doing, you're "burning" that nic-juice that you're inhaling!" Arrrrgh

I am just so frustrated, and I haven't even started the trip to our family get-together today, where I will probably see her. Maybe she will be sick and won't make it!! LOL

What you (we) are exhaling from an ecig is NOT anything that is "burned". We are actually only exhaling vaporized water, which dissipates very quickly and is NOT hazardous as "second hand" smoke to anyone like it is with an actual cigarette.
Sounds like your sister-in-law will never change her opinion regarding ecigs. Most know-it-alls never do change their opinion, even when proven wrong.
GOOD LUCK, sounds like you need it (as always is the case when dealing with a KNOW-IT-ALL), LOL ! ! !

 

[AngusATAT]

I haven't even started vaping yet. I'm ordering my first PV tomorrow night. But I've spent a lot of time researching my decision to switch to e-cigs. There is so much disinformation out there it's not even funny.

I had a sister-in-law that was much like yours. Thought she knew everything. I used to enjoy proving her wrong.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

This might be over your sister-in-laws head as it sounds like much might be (no offense)... however....

A synopsis of the pdf as presented by yvilla...

"A review of the available data has shown propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol to be negative for carcinogenicity in studies conducted up to the testing limit doses established by the Agency; therefore, no further carcinogenic analysis is required."

And just for good measure, here is the paragraph about toxicity in general:

"Upon reviewing the available toxicity information, the Agency has concluded that there are no endpoints of concern for oral, dermal, or inhalation exposure to propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol. This conclusion is based on the results of toxicity testing of propylene glycol and dipropylene glycol in which dose levels near or above testing limits (as established in the OPPTS 870 series harmonized test guidelines) were employed in experimental animal studies and no significant toxicity observed."

http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/reregist...glycol_red.pdf

On a side note: The EPA appears to be funded by our tax dollars, while the FDA is funded by tax dollars AND those who are seeking applications for approval (Pharm) AND NOW by the tobacco industry. Go figure on which one I think is in a better position to be believed

EDIT: I have just emailed the EPA to verify this is true

 

[SLDS181]

What you (we) are exhaling from an ecig is NOT anything that is "burned". We are actually only exhaling vaporized water, which dissipates very quickly and is NOT hazardous as "second hand" smoke to anyone like it is with an actual cigarette.

Its not water vapor, its PG vapor.

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

Something else to have her read, if she doesn't mind educating herself.

Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol Toxicity: What is Propylene Glycol | ATSDR - Environmental Medicine & Environmental Health Education - CSEM

If she really wants to understand the difference between Ethylene Glycol and Propylene Glycol, she can start at the very top and work her way down. This may be a couple of hours or so of learning to soak in, but after reading the document only speaking of Propylene Glycol, it's fairly clear, it's safe.

I hope this helps.

 

[framitz]

Some people just like to argue no matter what the subject is. The thing is you have to lead them to believe they are the authority on the subject and lead them to find the right answers so they can tell you what is right. I have relatives like this and arguing with them just makes it worse. It is tricky to work and this probably sounds like nonsense, but I think some folks will see where I'm coming from.

 

[dragonpuff]

I would remind her that the majority of serious injuries incurred in house fires are due to smoke inhalation , and that people frequently die in house fires because of that.

I ordinarily would never advocate for arguing with a brick wall of any kind, but i understand that you are fighting for your brother, and i would do the same. Good luck to you!

 

[vapourhead]

An interesting note about tobacco and additives:

All tobacco grown for domestic consumption is sprayed from seed to harvest with 14 known carcinogens. American Spirit tobacco, owned by Camel, is a tobacco product grown for domestic consumption.

The facts about smoke itself not withstanding, American Spirit's claim to have no added chemicals may be true -- no salt peter, no additional ammonia beyond the curing process, nothing sneaky in the paper or the filter, etc... But the fact that the plant itself has been sprayed from seed to harvest with pesticides, and other chemicals known to cause cancer is something I am deeply grateful to be free of (and then I pause to consider that the nicotine in my e liquid comes from tobacco leaves and I start to wonder.)

Fact is, it's illegal to "grow your own" tobacco in the US. You must comply with federal regulations, and thus, spray your tobacco from seed to harvest with at least 14 known carcinogens. No health test has ever been conducted on tobacco which does not contain these chemicals.

I think every smoker would like to see an isolated experiment using simple organic tobacco, cured in as chemical free a manner as possible. But that's never going to happen. We're well past the point of questioning the research, but to think that American Spirit are more healthy that another brand of tobacco grown for US domestic consumption is like saying a big mac is healthier than a whopper. It's marketing, nothing more.

 

[DigDreams]

For those that don't know - all pharmacies carry PG, it's what they use to control dosage in liquid medicines. You started drinking it when you were a kid and you brush your teeth with it every day. It's NOT antifreeze.

 

[SLDS181]

It's NOT antifreeze.

Just because something freezes at a lower temperature does not make it bad. PG is used as anti-freeze, a non-toxic anti-freeze. That does not make PG bad for you, its simply a property of PG.