Accidental absorption through skin - a concern?

[sebt]

Hi

I read somewhere that spilling e-liquid on your skin is a really bad idea. The concentrations I'm dealing with (or probably, anyone vaping is dealing with) are probably not too dangerous - all my liquids, for example, are 12mg nicotine.

But I was wondering how much of a concern skin-contact should be. I sometimes make a bit of a mess filling a tank and end up with stickey fingers. Is this going to result in much nicotine being absorbed? I don't actually spill liquid on my skin, just get a bit on my fingertips from tanks that have leaked a bit.

Not getting any particular symptoms that are causing me concern. If I'm looking for reassurance, it's probably because the whole experience of quitting analogs after 22 years is pretty weird and intense (but generally, with vaping, also exciting and pleasant ).

(On a side-note, I remember reading some thriller story years ago which hinged on an otherwise inexplicable air-crash. The murderer/terrorist had painted pure nicotine onto one of the controls of the aircraft, a control that would only be touched just prior to landing. Pilot touches the button, and hey presto is dead in seconds by skin absorption. Great and ingenious idea; may be exaggerated - and anyway the concentrations we're dealing with must be way lower than that).

 

[Eddie.Willers]

At less than 24mg (that is, 2.4%) nicotine liquid on the skin is no big deal - just rinse it off in water.

Now if you were DIYing with 100mg (10%), for example, then the precautions need to be a lot more rigorous - latex gloves are a minimum.

 

[denali_41]

At less than 24mg (that is, 2.4%) nicotine liquid on the skin is no big deal - just rinse it off in water.

Now if you were DIYing with 100mg (10%), for example, then the precautions need to be a lot more rigorous - latex gloves are a minimum.

yep !!

that painting nic on controls handles is feasible,,but it would have to be an extremely high nic level,,thinking you can't buy stuff that strong

 

[sebt]

At less than 24mg (that is, 2.4%) nicotine liquid on the skin is no big deal - just rinse it off in water.

Now if you were DIYing with 100mg (10%), for example, then the precautions need to be a lot more rigorous - latex gloves are a minimum.

Thanks both of you. And you've answered my other question: my "12mg" juice actually means 1.2% nicotine content, I now know.

I think the stuff in the aircrash story was 100% pure. Wouldn't want to go near that stuff!

 

[Johnny2puffs]

Geeze man. You puff it into your lungs and you scared of spilling a bit on your finger!!! And having to use LATEX gloves when handling it at vaping %.
What are you smoking? The green stuff perhaps?

 

[5vz]

I've spilled stuff, I've gotten it on my skin. Premixed or DIY, nothing happened. I just washed it off. I have sensitive skin and allergies of every sort, including skin. I also smoked for 30 + years, so maybe it does not bother me. I don't worry about it anymore. YMMV.

 

[minitater]

I used to worry about skin contact, but I just lick it off now. Tastes good and saves battery life

 

[shigfu]

The worst I've had happen was using the "condom" method of filling some sealed cartos and after filling about 10 of them I had a pretty significant amount of 24mg/ml on my hands. I washed it off and started vaping only to have nicotine overdose symptoms... I sat around for about an hour with a racing heart and gritting my teeth. Needless to say I went to bed shortly after

 

[J**2]

Nicotine is readily and easily absorbed through the skin. The LD50 (LD50=dose that will kill 50% of those exposed) for nicotine in a nontolerant individual is about 60-75 mg. For 12 mg juice that's about 5 cc. The LD50 for us vapers is about twice that or 120mg or about 10 cc. Children are particularly succeptible because of low body weight.

Small amounts of low concetration juice are no problem but
If you spill a bottle of the stuff on you you could get into trouble. Of course it isn't immediately absorbed. Wash it off removing any soaked clothes.

Pure nicotine is very dangerous stuff and should be handled under a hood with protective gear.

Jeff

 

[Oicu812]

I was looking into the possibility of making my own juices from scratch, and found that you can buy 99.9% pure nicotine in any size from a 10ml bottle on up to a 55 gallon drum wholesale/retail. Pretty scary stuff.

O

 

[Rocketman]

I used to worry about skin contact, but I just lick it off now. Tastes good and saves battery life

WE even had a vendor of Nic juice say he's spilled 99.8% Nicotine on his skin with no problem and doesn't see what all the scare talk is about.


I sure hope the casual reader doesn't pick up on these things.

They might believe it.

 

[bogs8812]

What I don't understand is this. Studies show that:

7.2.1 Human data
7.2.1.1 Adults
The mean lethal dose has been estimated to be 30
to 60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) (Gosselin, 1988).
7.2.1.2 Children
The lethal dose is considered to be about 10 mg
of nicotine (Arena, 1974).

Nicotine

I weigh around 90 kg so I assume the fatal dose of nicotine for me is around 45 - 90mg. Is that like 45 - 90mg per ml? or 45-90mg overall total ingested or spilled on the skin or inhaled? I'm a DIY guy and I'm concerned that if a spill of a whole 10ml bottle of 12mg ejuice(that's a total of 120mg) on my skin would kill me?

 

[jkmtwo]

I used to worry about skin contact, but I just lick it off now. Tastes good and saves battery life

I think I just died laughing......no really....

 

[Rocketman]

I'm a DIY guy and I'm concerned that if a spill of a whole 10ml bottle of 12mg ejuice(that's a total of 120mg) on my skin would kill me?

To actually get 10ml of juice on your skin would take some serious 'spllin'. Take a 10ml bottle of PG, no nic, just the PG, and rub it all over you. Arms, legs, face, ..... 10ml goes a long way.

OR,
pour 10ml in a pan and put both hands in it. How much did you leave behind? Usually a 'spill' runs off your hands and drips all over the floor.

A couple of things to consider:

Skin absorption with PG or VG is slow. Higher concentrations of NIC would be absorbed faster but 1 to 2% solutions will just sit there and give you a little time to wash it off.

Vaping a lethal dose might be possible. You might notice it, and identify the problem before your heart stopped. The synergy of spilling and vaping would be bad. The two doses would add up.

Accidental ingestion (pretty bottle of e-juice in the fridge, people with underdevelopedfrontallobesyndrome in the same house) would be something to worry about.

1 to 2 ml of 24mg/ml juice could easily affect a child or a pet. That's what I would worry about.

 

[bogs8812]

Thanks Rocket. Looks like I'm just being paranoid
One last question. What about 100mg Nicotine liquid in PG? Would a 1ml spill be dangerous? I'm just starting to DIY, please forgive me for asking a lot of questions..

 

[ctourtelot]

Thanks Rocket. Looks like I'm just being paranoid
One last question. What about 100mg Nicotine liquid in PG? Would a 1ml spill be dangerous? I'm just starting to DIY, please forgive me for asking a lot of questions..

I'm not sure of anyone else's experience and/or tolerance level, but I used to work in a retail ecig location and my hands were covered in liquid for several hours a day as I was making sample bottles, filling carts for tasting, etc. I never had any issue with that.

I also DIY with 100mg/ml nic liquid and I have spilled a few ml on myself. The full bottle tipped over onto my hands. I didn't get right up and wash immediately as I finished the bottle I was making. I washed my hands (never used gloves with DIY) and I had a slight nic buzz, but that's the only thing I've ever noticed as far as skin absorption.

Now if you get a hold of near pure nicotine, it can be quite fatal in concentrated doses, but most of us on the consumer level never handle more than 10% solution and few above 4.8%

Caution is always advised, especially if there are children and/or pets in the household. You want to keep any nic liquid under lock and key, but individuals getting a bit of it on them really isn't something to get paranoid about. If you are concerned, then it won't hurt anyone if you choose to use gloves for the peace of mind.

 

[classwife]

This is from the top of the DIY pages of the forum:

READ THIS BEFORE ATTEMPTING ANY E-LIQUID PROCEDURES!!!

Some members have chosen to adapt the ingredients commonly found in e-smoking liquid and make their own varieties.

The handling of high-strength base liquids, and especially pure nicotine, and the chemicals needed to create e-liquid should be done only by those qualified to work with dangerous materials.

Any information contained within this forum is acted on at the user's own risk.

ECF cannot be held responsible for individuals causing injury or even death to themselves or others by following the information contained in this forum.

Anyone considering doing so must bear in mind the following:

Nicotine is an extremely toxic substance - more so than arsenic, milligram for milligram. Its extraction, storage and use in e-liquid pose a significant risk to the user and anyone who might come into contact with it.
Never allow nicotine to touch your skin or allow it to build up in the atmosphere. Always wear suitable protective clothing and keep workspaces well ventilated.
Extreme caution must always be applied in the handling of nicotine, especially where children are concerned - a drop of e-liquid that might make a long-term smoker feel sick will likely kill a child.
All items contaminated by nicotine extraction or e-liquid mixing must be cleaned or disposed of accordingly. Treat it as toxic waste - do not allow it to pollute the environment or remain unattended or unsecured at any time. Contact your local authority to find what provisions there are for hazardous waste disposal before you attempt any e-liquid production.
E-liquid and all substances used in its production must be stored securely away from children and pets and in child-proof bottles.
Appropriate care must be taken to safeguard against fire-hazards. Many ingredients in e-liquid are highly flammable, as are many substances used in the extraction of nicotine.

Even following these guidelines cannot guarantee your safety.

If you do not have experience in handling dangerous chemicals you should not attempt to do any DIY liquid manufacture. Buy your e-liquid supplies instead from one of the many manufacturers that already exist.

Again, ECF cannot be held responsible for injury or death caused by following any of the information found on the boards.


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-rules/51178-forum-rules.html
22. Nicotine strength
a. The maximum nicotine strength of eliquids allowed to be offered for sale on ECF by Suppliers is 36mg or 3.6%. No liquid of strength higher than this can be specifically offered or specifically mentioned by Suppliers. Trade deals are exempt, within private supplier boards only, as higher strengths are needed for trade bulk mixing. Note that there are shipping restrictions in some countries for toxic materials, which can be obtained by application to your local Postal Service and private shippers, and you are cautioned not to contravene these restrictions.
b. Suppliers can sell whatever strength they wish with the exception of pure nicotine (900mg / 90% and above). Sites that sell pure nicotine will be blocked by ECF. We define 'pure nicotine' as 90% / 900mg/ml or higher.
c. There is a limit on public discussion of 200mg (20%) maximum for mixing discussion, recipes and tutorials, and also in the Classifieds.
d. The use of 'Pure Nicotine' cannot be discussed (in detail) on public forums on ECF (trade forums are exempt) due to the hazard [1] - see Notes below. That is to say, it can be mentioned in passing but not discussed at length especially as regards mixing.


Notes

[1] It has become obvious that some members joining in discussion of pure nic do not have any idea of the danger, or any knowledge of working with hazardous chemicals, or even any basic knowledge of measurements. Pure nic is as dangerous as cyanide - opening a bottle in a room can result in all present being poisoned. It must be handled in a fume cupboard, with hazmat precautions. Pure nic can be theoretically defined as: Nicotine 100%, 1000mg, 1000mg/ml, but is more likely to be found as 998mg, 997mg/ml or 990 mg (99%). We consider anything over 90% / 900mg to be 'pure nic'. No discussion of use or links to suppliers are allowed.

There is a very real danger of death or hospitalization with this material and ECF cannot support any publicity of its use or sources. There is no need to use it since far safer strengths are available for bulk mixing, such as 48mg (4.8% nicotine in PG or VG), 60mg (6%) 100mg (10%), and so on. To protect our members and ourselves we do not allow discussion or sources of anything over 200mg (20% nic) except within private trade forums.

Trade promotion on ECF cannot exceed 36mg strength. Vendor's sites can sell any strength up to 89% though we advise vendors to limit sales to 10% / 100mg/ml where possible. Sites selling pure nic will be banned.

And, I am closing this thread.

 

[rolygate]

In general it is advisable to take precautions. Unless you know that you have a high tolerance to nicotine, it is better to be safe than sorry. You should wear gloves to do DIY e-liquid mixing because you may not know (a) the strength of the liquid you are working with (some has been sold at around 300% the label strength for example - or in contrast at 25% of the advertised strength), and (b) what your personal nicotine tolerance is.

- Individual tolerance to nicotine varies by at least a factor of 10. We know that some start to experience symptoms of nic OD if they overdo it with 6mg (0.6%) e-liquid. 12mg is way too much for them. In contrast, there are people who vape 60mg (6%)as that is the strength they need (and could go higher if necessary).

- The toxic amount quoted in MSDS can be doubled for the average smoker / vaper due to tolerance, though the lower amount would apply to some persons, such as those who have to keep at or below 6mg liquid for vaping. In the case of our 60mg vaper, the toxic amount would probably need to be multiplied by at least 10.

If you open a bottle of pure nic in a room, everyone present can start to show symptoms of poisoning. It is as toxic as cyanide and needs to be handled inside a fume cupboard.

Nicotine is bound ('locked in') by the excipients in e-liquid (PG and VG), though, and spilling e-liquid on the skin is far less dangerous than doing the same with pure nicotine for two reasons: it's weaker; and the mixed liquid cannot penetrate the skin as efficiently. Nevertheless it will be harmful for those with less tolerance.

Carto tanks and me do not agree, and argue viciously. Until I gave up with them, every now and then one would dump 5ml of 36mg all over my hands. It had no effect whatsoever - but I have a very high tolerance to nic. I don't recommend that for someone who vapes 6mg. Nicotine will certainly kill you if you take in more than your system can handle, which will vary by a factor of ten according to the individual. Someone died from it not long ago, they had a blood plasma level 20 times higher than the average smoker's level of 40ng. It was assumed to be suicide (as there had been previous issues) but recorded as an accident as there was no note or other definite indication of intent.

Nic is dangerous, and at least ten times more so for some than others.