16340 800mAh 3.0v Ultrafires

[dale1962]

I use to use these batts Ultrafire Protected 16340/RCR123A 3.0 V Li-Ion over a year ago and have had them as backups but now running low on batts and need to use them for a bit and forgot which charger I use to charge them on.I thought it was this charger AG-126 Lithium Ion Battery Charger so I charged them and they came off charged at 4.2v but within a hour dropped to 3.6v.The 4.2v seems high to me for a 3v batt but they did drop quickly,so my ?? are can u use this charger with these batts and if not which charger would u use.

Looked for specs on these and can't find and also asked on MV forum with no answers yet.Any help would be greatly appreciated...just want to know if they are safe to use now. Thanks,Dale

 

[NickZac]

To my understanding, the traditional 3.0 volt lithium cells are usually 3.7 cells with a cutoff/reg circuit to run at a normal 3.0 volts. The batteries you have may have a full charge capacity 'peak' of 4.2 and an cutoff at 2.5 to 2.75, but I do not know enough about these in particular as I have only used ICR 3.7's in this size. If this is the case, the reason it is dropping fast is because the 4.2 volts is a full charge under no load, and you can call it a 'slight overcharge'. The voltage will quickly drop with usage down the the 3.7v point on 3.7 volt batteries, and most of the usable service life will be within the 3.6 to 3.8 volt threshold. I am not sure if the voltage hovers at 3.6-ish or not on the 3v batteries with how the circuit works. While Battery U advises matching charger and battery voltages, I believe a 4.2 volt charger is fine on this type of battery given its circuit, as the battery itself is regulating the charge, although someone more knowledgable than me needs to confirm this. Also, I do not know enough about that particular battery to offer more usable information.

Now, like all lithium batteries, if these were stored at a 4.2 charge for an extended period, then you may very well see a poor service life. It is not advisable (nor safe) to store lithium batteries at a full charge, and instead storing at 40% capacity is ideal, unlike other rechargables. You probably stored them correctly but I just wanted to mention this as well. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful

 

[dale1962]

NickZac I really appreciate the response and did not store them fully charged.I thought this maybe the case about these batts but I have so many chargers couldn't remember which one i use to use on them.Hopefully someone will confirm what u are saying that is more familiar with these batts.I also use the icr mostly now until I lost them somewhere.

Thanks again ,Dale

 

[Switched]

Eh, that is the wrong charger to use for 3.0V batts. That charger is designed for 3.7V batts. A 3.0V batt will charge to 3.6V whilst a 3.7V batt charges to 4.2.

The only 3.0V battery that I know of that charges to 4.2 are the Tenergys 900mAh batts that require a special charger (their charger BTW).

 

[dale1962]

I have some LiFePO4 3V batts that require special charger but are u sure about these Li-Ion 3v batts?Anyone else know?

 

[Switched]

I have some LiFePO4 3V batts that require special charger but are u sure about these Li-Ion 3v batts?Anyone else know?

Basic to Advanced Battery Information from Battery University

 

[dale1962]

Switched I appreciate your replys and know about Battery U. but I could'nt find anything I could understand on that site and would like to find the specs of these batts which have looked there and many other places and can't find.Not that I doubt your knowledge because I don't have much in electronics or batteries.I think when I was using the batts over a year ago I was told could charge and did on this charger for about 6 months with no issues maybe I was very lucky.

Do u or anybody know of any link about the specs of these batts.Thanks again for all your help...

 

[Switched]

Dale my good man... I do not know what to say, battery knowledge in those days is not what it is today. The short of it...

You charge a 3.0V battery on a 3.0V charger and a 3.7V batt on a 3.7V charger. Ultrafires have nothing special going on.

Personally I do not like those batts nor the charger, the fact that you cannot find specs on either the charger nor the batts should be an indication that perhaps you should not be using either. Caution calls for my aforementioned recommendation. Don't you think there has been enough reported incidents with battery failures to warrant such caution?

 

[dale1962]

Switched I hear ya this is not my only charger or batts for that matter these items I was using over a year ago and now mainly use XStar charger and AW batts.As I said before was in a pinch when misplaced some batts and was going to use them and then give them to a friend who wanted to start vaping.I do understand about charging 3v batts to around 3.6v and 3.7v to 4.2v but could have sworn I was charging them on this charger.

Was going to give my friend an older mod I have with these batts quess he'll have to get his own batts now.Thanks for your help.

 

[NickZac]

Personally I do not like those batts nor the charger

Agreed. Any charger for that matter that charges NiCAD, NiMH, AND Lithium Ions that is under a few hundred bucks can be suspect...and the Ultrafires are far from ideal versus AW.

The batteries in question could be LiFe or LiCo cells with diodes that reduce the actual voltage when under load. If they are LiFe cells, you need a charger that charges less than the 3.7 chargers. If they are diode regulated, you will need a charger specifically for this that outputs more power than the regular 3.7 chargers. Either way, the 800 mah rating is ridiculously overstated IMO... Someone on Amazon said they are not even 300mah batteries, a poor service life, and that they charge to 4.2 volts...multiple people have noted this.

I think these are LiFe cells (non-diode regulated). I think this because the LiFe cells in this size are around 300 mah, and multiple users have confirmed this. People noting they charge to 4.2 and poor service life further the probability that these are LiFe cells...some incidents of venting also suggest this. Finally, a LiCo regulated battery would not have charged beyond 3.7-ish...in your case you got it to 4.2. The only thing you would expect is that the protection circuit cuts off to prevent overcharging...however, just because the battery has a protection circuit doesnt mean it will work and other reviews suggest this is exactly the case.

So since we do not know anything about the battery or charger, we have to assume the worst, which is also the most likely. We have to assume that: 1) you have LiFe batteries designed for a max charge voltage of 3.6-ish, 2) the charger is severely overcharging the batteries beyond their full voltage, 3) the battery does not have a reliable protection circuit, and 4) the charger has absolutely no safety features (none are listed at least).

What are the implications? At best, the batteries will be dead in a few weeks. However, if these are LiFe 3.0s, then 4.2 volts is high enough to cause a 'venting with flame' incident/explosion. The overcharged batteries may have caused damage to the mod as well. I personally would not use these batteries, and consider going to AW cells with a Pila or XTAR charger (not sure if the Xstar is the same or a generic remake). I would discard the batteries as their service life has been destroyed and they are not safe, especially for something that you hold up to your face.