WTA is the future

[Levitas]

I read the first page, and the last page. I feel like throwing my opinion around tonight, so...

I personally believe it's not anyone's right on this Earth to prevent anyone else from using, doing, enjoying, anything they please, so long as no one else is directly affected by them doing so. I don't believe that illegal narcotics should be illegal for use (though, I don't use them). And I surely don't believe that anyone should prevent someone from using something such as WTA's, let alone down someone for choosing to do so.

Forums like this bring about many voices, and some people wish to be heard, regardless of the topic they're speaking towards. I've always believed that if someone is saying something you don't like, the absolute worst thing you can do is acknowledge it. That's not to say never have reasonable, objective debates. I love those. No, I am speaking towards comments that hold little to no merit, and should just be left to linger in pages beyond.

Congratulations on those who quit smoking utilizing WTA's, or otherwise. I now return you to your regular programming as I return to watching Breaking Bad. Thank you, and good night.

 

[rebgold]

I have a comment about a new, allegedly WTA juice. Nudenicotine.com says this about their tobacco liquid, "This is a ‘Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA)’ extract from select fresh flue-cured tobacco leaves. Our absolute extraction process yields a flavor extract absent of nicotine, nitrosamines, diacetyl, and other harmful ingredients present in combusted tobacco or other extracted tobacco products."
To the best of my limited understanding WTA is not an absolute extraction. It is also chock full of nicotine and the other good stuff those of us who like WTA are looking for. So, I'm assuming they're either accidentally using the term incorrectly, or misrepresenting their juice in order to get some of WTA gold rush?
I'm hoping those of you who understand all of the tobacco extraction processes will chime in here and enlighten me, just in case I'm not stating this correctly.

 

[rothenbj]

I have a comment about a new, allegedly WTA juice. Nudenicotine.com says this about their tobacco liquid, "This is a ‘Whole Tobacco Alkaloid (WTA)’ extract from select fresh flue-cured tobacco leaves. Our absolute extraction process yields a flavor extract absent of nicotine, nitrosamines, diacetyl, and other harmful ingredients present in combusted tobacco or other extracted tobacco products."
To the best of my limited understanding WTA is not an absolute extraction. It is also chock full of nicotine and the other good stuff those of us who like WTA are looking for. So, I'm assuming they're either accidentally using the term incorrectly, or misrepresenting their juice in order to get some of WTA gold rush?
I'm hoping those of you who understand all of the tobacco extraction processes will chime in here and enlighten me, just in case I'm not stating this correctly.

LOL, Has to be a marketing ploy. How can you have WTA extract and say that it is absent 95% of the whole tobacco alkaloids, nicotine?

 

[rebgold]

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[rebgold]

95 pages of people talking about WTA and only one person cares about companies popping up and pretending they're selling it when they're really selling absolutes?

 

[alisa1970]

This is the way I understand it, although I completely accept that I could be wrong.

Wholecig says the same thing:

Our e-Liquid is "WTA exclusive" which means no additional nicotine is added, preserving the tobacco leaf's natural alkaloid profile. Experience the difference. .

Yes, nicotine is an alkaloid, but it comprises only 95% of the alkaloid spread. The minors take up the other 5%. So if they are saying there is no ADDED nicotine, what that means is that you are getting the whole, natural spread of alkaloid mix. That also means that you can't "select" the amount of nicotine you get in mg, such as 12, 18, 24, etc. The only way you can do that is if the manufacturer adds nicotine to get the desired strength.

You get the whole alkaloid mix as it is extracted from the leaf, full stop. Whatever amount of nicotine and minor alkaloids is extracted, is how much you get. Who knows how much that is, but it's the natural spread that you would get in a cigarette as well (you don't consciously select a nic strength when you buy smokes).

 

[snork]

95 pages of people talking about WTA and only one person cares about companies popping up and pretending they're selling it when they're really selling absolutes?

Guess you skipped a couple pages.

 

[Mr.Mann]

This is the way I understand it, although I completely accept that I could be wrong.

Wholecig says:

Our e-Liquid is "WTA exclusive" which means no additional nicotine is added, preserving the tobacco leaf's natural alkaloid profile. Experience the difference. .

Yes, nicotine is an alkaloid, but it comprises only 95% of the alkaloid spread. The minors take up the other 5%. So if they are saying there is no ADDED nicotine, what that means is that you are getting the whole, natural spread of alkaloid mix. That also means that you can't "select" the amount of nicotine you get in mg, such as 12, 18, 24, etc. The only way you can do that is if the manufacturer adds nicotine to get the desired strength.

You get the whole alkaloid mix as it is extracted from the leaf, full stop. Whatever amount of nicotine and minor alkaloids is extracted, is how much you get. Who knows how much that is, but it's the natural spread that you would get in a cigarette as well (you don't consciously select a nic strength when you buy smokes).

What WholeCig says and what Nudenic says are two completely different things. You are correct in your assessment of the make-up of WTA, but you can select nic strength. Yes, WTA is already, as extracted, 95% nicotine, so when you order WTA strengths at 25 mg (approximately 23.75 mg nic/1.25 mg minor alkaloids) 20 mg (19 mg nic/1 mg minor alkaloids) or 17 mg (16.15 nic/ 0.85 mg minor alkaloids) you are selecting nic strength since 95% of what you are selecting is nicotine.

If a WTA manufacturer adds nicotine to WTA, then the alkaloids spread is no longer in line with the natural spread. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the minor alkaloids concentration is cut my some unknown percentage.

What Nudenic is saying is they're making a tobacco absolute that contains all the alkaloids but (and this the important part):

...
...considering the VERY low concentration this extract is used in our eliquid, the nicotine concentration would be less than 0.5mg/mL when diluted properly..
...

With alkaloid content so minute, it's basically zero.

Here's what Dvap said a few years ago about absolutes and alkaloids:

It seems there's more to tobacco absolute production that I'd reckoned.

Most of what I can find mentions a hexane extraction of tobacco leaf followed by a transfer into alcohol to leave the fats behind. Depending on the processing, one source suggests that some TA's might contain nicotine and alkaloids. But here's the tricky part... the stuff is so damned concentrated that by the time it's cut down to a usable level, any TA that did contain the good stuff would be diluted out to nothing. And while the source suggests that some TA's could contain nicotine and alkaloids, I've yet to actually find one. In perfumery (which is the main area of TA's use), nicotine and alkaloids would be considered a bad thing. (4.24.10)

Guess you skipped a couple pages.

No, this is a different thread. There was no previous talk of Nudenic here, in this thread, prior to rebgold's post.

 

[alisa1970]

What WholeCig says and what Nudenic says are two completely different things. You are correct in your assessment of the make-up of WTA, but you can select nic strength. Yes, WTA is already, as extracted, 95% nicotine, so when you order WTA strengths at 25 mg (approximately 23.75 mg nic/1.25 mg minor alkaloids) 20 mg (19 mg nic/1 mg minor alkaloids) or 17 mg (16.15 nic/ 0.85 mg minor alkaloids) you are selecting nic strength since 95% of what you are selecting is nicotine.

If a WTA manufacturer adds nicotine to WTA, then the alkaloids spread is no longer in line with the natural spread. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but the minor alkaloids concentration is cut my some unknown percentage.

What Nudenic is saying is they're making a tobacco absolute that contains all the alkaloids but (and this the important part):



With alkaloid content so minute, it's basically zero.

Here's what Dvap said a few years ago about absolutes and alkaloids:

It seems there's more to tobacco absolute production that I'd reckoned.

Most of what I can find mentions a hexane extraction of tobacco leaf followed by a transfer into alcohol to leave the fats behind. Depending on the processing, one source suggests that some TA's might contain nicotine and alkaloids. But here's the tricky part... the stuff is so damned concentrated that by the time it's cut down to a usable level, any TA that did contain the good stuff would be diluted out to nothing. And while the source suggests that some TA's could contain nicotine and alkaloids, I've yet to actually find one. In perfumery (which is the main area of TA's use), nicotine and alkaloids would be considered a bad thing. (4.24.10)





No, this is a different thread. There was no previous talk of Nudenic here, in this thread, prior to rebgold's post.

Thank you very much for that breakdown, Mr Mann. I'll admit I was confused about the "added" nicotine/vs alkaloids with no nic, and I thought I had recalled reading someone else posting about that as well. I thought they had mentioned/adressed the issue of not being able to select a strength but you're right, you can select strength with both Aroma and Wholecig. I haven't run across nudenic so could make no comment on that at all.

 

[snork]

No, this is a different thread. There was no previous talk Nudenic here in this thread prior to rebgold's post.

Indeed, my apologies. It all blends together, I broke my one thread at a time rule.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Thank you very much for that breakdown, Mr Mann. I'll admit I was confused about the "added" nicotine/vs alkaloids with no nic, and I thought I had recalled reading someone else posting about that as well. I thought they had mentioned/adressed the issue of not being able to select a strength but you're right, you can select strength with both Aroma and Wholecig. I haven't run across nudenic so could make no comment on that at all.

I like to think of it more as being able to select the WTA percentage.

Indeed, my apologies. It all blends together, I broke my one thread at a time rule.

I thought the same thing until I checked.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Dern double post.

 

[rebgold]

In regard to the vendor I was discussing, this is the only page that references them.
My bad for not thoroughly reading the other 94 pages to make sure I wasn't being redundant.

 

[unloaded]

In regard to the vendor I was discussing, this is the only page that references them.
My bad for not thoroughly reading the other 94 pages to make sure I wasn't being redundant.

It got mentioned in this thread last week:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...45523-why-wta-such-controversial-subject.html

 

[rebgold]

Indeed, my apologies. It all blends together, I broke my one thread at a time rule.

No problem snarky, I mean snorky. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time I was redundant and repetitive!

 

[Adik Ted]

What WholeCig says and what Nudenic says are two completely different things, and you are correct in your further assessment of the make-up of WTA, but you can select nic strength. Yes, WTA is already, as extracted, 95% nicotine, so when you order WTA strengths at 25 mg (approximately 23.75 mg nic/1.25 mg minor alkaloids) 20 mg (19 mg nic/1 mg minor alkaloids) or 17 mg (16.15 nic/ 0.85 mg minor alkaloids) you are selecting nic strength since 95% of what you are selecting is nicotine.

Forgive my ignorance Mr. Mann, I've bcome confused by you and alisa's exchange but I don't have time to read these lengthy threads. I take it you're not saying that nothing is added and the WTA's come that way naturally? If so, what is it that's added that reduces the nic content?

 

[Mr.Mann]

Forgive my ignorance Mr. Mann, I've become confused by you and alisa's exchange but I don't have time to read these lengthy threads. I take it you're not saying that nothing is added and the WTA's come that way naturally? If so, what is it that's added that reduces the nic content?

No. I am saying nothing is added. The alkaloid composition of tobacco is roughly 95% nicotine and about 5% of other minor alkaloids. When you extract the alkaloids from tobacco (nicotine being the predominant alkaloid), this is what we call WTA.

Take the time to read this: Whole Tobacco Alkaloids - A Bit of History

 

[Adik Ted]

No. I am saying nothing is added. The alkaloid composition of tobacco is roughly 95% nicotine and about 5% of other minor alkaloids. When you extract the alkaloids from tobacco (nicotine being the predominant alkaloid), this is what we call WTA.

Take the time to read this: Whole Tobacco Alkaloids - A Bit of History

Thanks for the link Mr. M. I I now see what you mean by "I like to think of it more as being able to select the WTA percentage" if I'm right in thinking this is the amount of WTA per ml of PG/VG.

 

[Adik Ted]

I'm thinking of giving this a go despite the international shipping rate. Anyone tried it? What's the throat hit like (I can't stand a lack of throat hit)? Any discount codes?

 

[Mr.Mann]

Thanks for the link Mr. M. I I now see what you mean by "I like to think of it more as being able to select the WTA percentage" if I'm right in thinking this is the amount of WTA per ml of PG/VG.

That's how it should be IMO.