What does 'stacking batteries' mean?

[Shurbet101]

Have no idea what this means, literally not a scoob. Tried to research online but it uses a lot of terms I'm not familiar with...

Aparently it's dangerous. But I have no idea if I'm doing it? Could someone try to explain in non vape- non technical terms? X

 

[granolaboy]

"stacking batteries" means you are putting batteries in series with each other. Putting batteries in series with each other adds up their voltage. This is done with mechanical mods.

People typically swap out their 18650 battery with 2 18350 batteries, giving them 2 x 3.7 volts = 7.4 volts.

The reason this is dangerous is that you need a much higher resistance coil, otherwise you will be demanding a ridiculous amount of amps from your batteries, and likely burning the hell out of your juice, if not your face.

So yah, don't do it.

But I have no idea if I'm doing it?

If you were pushing double voltage, you'd know

 

[Baditude]

If you have to ask what stacking batteries is, you don't have to worry about what it is. It is frowned upon and its practice adds considerable risk to using batteries safely.

Just don't use more than one battery in a mod, and you won't be stacking batteries. Nuff said.

 

[edyle]

Have no idea what this means, literally not a scoob. Tried to research online but it uses a lot of terms I'm not familiar with...

Aparently it's dangerous. But I have no idea if I'm doing it? Could someone try to explain in non vape- non technical terms? X

Like putting 2 or more batteries in a flashlight.

Not recommended for lithium batteries.

 

[SingedVapor]

Putting two batteries on top of each other adds the voltage up.
Putting two side by side adds the mah up.

The first one is dangerous but the second one is very popular as it gives the mod longer life.

Just had to add that in as I was very confused about it and the difference at first


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wv2win]

....................

The reason this is dangerous is that you need a much higher resistance coil, otherwise you will be demanding a ridiculous amount of amps from your batteries, and likely burning the hell out of your juice, if not your face......................

I have been using a 1.5 ohm resistance coil with two stacked 18350 batteries in a Vamo for 2+ years and have never had burnt e-liquid and have never had anything even close to dangerous happening. I am however able to get better performance out of my Vamo using the stacked 18350's in comparison to one 18650. This is supported by the many power readings done by PBusardo in his reviews of APV's like the Vamo comparing 18650 to two 18350 batteries.

Yet you make the inference that stacking batteries is always dangerous and will burn your face.

I have no problem with educating people on how to use different battery configurations properly and safely. I have a problem with blatantly inferring that people will blow their face off if they stack batteries or that it is dangerous with no explanation, no qualifications, no education.

 

[granolaboy]

I have been using a 1.5 ohm resistance coil with two stacked 18350 batteries in a Vamo for 2+ years and have never had burnt e-liquid and have never had anything even close to dangerous happening. I am however able to get better performance out of my Vamo using the stacked 18350's in comparison to one 18650. This is supported by the many power readings done by PBusardo in his reviews of APV's like the Vamo comparing 18650 to two 18350 batteries.

Yet you make the inference that stacking batteries is always dangerous and will burn your face.

I have no problem with educating people on how to use different battery configurations properly and safely. I have a problem with blatantly inferring that people will blow their face off if they stack batteries or that it is dangerous with no explanation, no qualifications, no education.

I would not consider running an APV designed to handle 7+ volts "stacking batteries". The DC-DC chip in your Vamo is regulating the voltage sent to your atty, and I'm sure it's not full voltage, and not sucking down the 47A that 2 fully charged lithium batteries in series would need to feed 1.5Ω coil (fully charged is 4.2v, so W = (V*V)/R = (8.4 * 8.4) / 1.5 = 47.04A).

I believe the OP is talking about unregulated mechs with 2 batteries in series.

 

[Shurbet101]

Ah! I thought it meant keeping loads of battery's together and using them without letting one drain, like constantly topping up your battery's. Which I actually do haha, phew

 

[wv2win]

I would not consider running an APV designed to handle 7+ volts "stacking batteries". The DC-DC chip in your Vamo is regulating the voltage sent to your atty, and I'm sure it's not full voltage, and not sucking down the 47A that 2 fully charged lithium batteries in series would need to feed 1.5Ω coil (fully charged is 4.2v, so W = (V*V)/R = (8.4 * 8.4) / 1.5 = 47.04A).

I believe the OP is talking about unregulated mechs with 2 batteries in series.

The problem is that your response as well as others, gave no qualifiers and no intelligent explanation, just "scare verbiage".

There is a safe way to use stacked batteries, which will provide better performance with some APV's, as evidenced in PBusardo's tests. I guess it is easier to just state unequivocally that you will probably blow your face off if you use stacked batteries, period. But it is not helping a new person.

 

[Myk]

Stacking batteries in a device designed to stack batteries (like Vamo or SVD) is not automatically dangerous.

What is ludicrous about those claiming it's dangerous while at the same time claiming you need high drain batteries for those mods is that stacking is ALWAYS bucking the voltage DOWN.
What they claim is dangerous is completely removing another danger they wave their hands about.

The danger in stacking batteries in those mods designed to stack in is not checking your batteries and using them if they fall out of sync. Then you basically have one battery over-charging the other that can no longer handle it or one over-draining the other. The one that can't deal with the stress goes into thermal meltdown (which the claim is can't happen if you're using IMR which those always crying danger say won't happen, although yes it can).

Where the claims of danger come from is back in the old days of people stacking in mechs AND not paying attention to their battery conditions AND using the batteries that were available back in the old days.

 

[zep604]

The reality is stacking batterys is not any more / less dangerous then using a high drain battery in a mech mod. APVs are nice because they regulate and give some protection enspecially against shorts. However in either case you should really know ohms law and the basics of current flow before taking any step towards playing with electrical currents into your own hands. The reality is when theres heat, theres power and 18650's,18350s,26650s do have power to them. Even the ones that are not high drain can pack a punch.

 

[maravilla]

If you have to ask what stacking batteries is

Knowledge is the key everything and more importantly (within this community), safety. I learned something from the explanations given in this thread.

 

[milescadre]

I have been using a 1.5 ohm resistance coil with two stacked 18350 batteries in a Vamo for 2+ years and have never had burnt e-liquid and have never had anything even close to dangerous happening. I am however able to get better performance out of my Vamo using the stacked 18350's in comparison to one 18650. This is supported by the many power readings done by PBusardo in his reviews of APV's like the Vamo comparing 18650 to two 18350 batteries.

Yet you make the inference that stacking batteries is always dangerous and will burn your face.

I have no problem with educating people on how to use different battery configurations properly and safely. I have a problem with blatantly inferring that people will blow their face off if they stack batteries or that it is dangerous with no explanation, no qualifications, no education.

2 reasons;

In a MEchanical mod, as pointed out, you can be pushing some ridiculous amps through those coils. This puts ALOT of stress on the batteries (namely the one right behind the atty) and can cause melt down.

In a Vamo, or other Regulated devices, the risk isnt as severe since the mod has a cut off at a certain amperage. It just doesnt allow it. BUT, it still can put additional stress on the top most battery, since it has to handle its own discharge ad the one behind it. The risk isnt as immediate as a mechanical, but is still greater than running single batteries. Furthermore, stacking batteries in theory wouldnt increase battery life, so theres really no need ot stack batteries in a VV/VW mod.

Baditude did a blog on stacking batteries in the past, and explained why the paractice started, why its unsafe, and why its no longer necessary, not to mention the precautions you should take if you still are thick headed enough to try it.

 

[Myk]

2 reasons;

In a MEchanical mod, as pointed out, you can be pushing some ridiculous amps through those coils. This puts ALOT of stress on the batteries (namely the one right behind the atty) and can cause melt down.

In a Vamo, or other Regulated devices, the risk isnt as severe since the mod has a cut off at a certain amperage. It just doesnt allow it. BUT, it still can put additional stress on the top most battery, since it has to handle its own discharge ad the one behind it. The risk isnt as immediate as a mechanical, but is still greater than running single batteries. Furthermore, stacking batteries in theory wouldnt increase battery life, so theres really no need ot stack batteries in a VV/VW mod.

Baditude did a blog on stacking batteries in the past, and explained why the paractice started, why its unsafe, and why its no longer necessary, not to mention the precautions you should take if you still are thick headed enough to try it.

The correct information is already given in this thread to explain why one may want (have a need) to stack in a Vamo or SVD. Where to find it in detail was even mentioned.
Vamo and SVD are the only two I'm familiar stacking with so that's what I am limiting what I talk about.
When I put a dual coil on a Vamo each coil in the atty had to be at least 2.4Ω. To give myself a little leeway for shorts I made them 3Ω, quite a bit higher than what I normally use. That took more voltage than my normal 4v-ish. The ONLY way you're going to get much above around 4 volts on a Vamo under drain with average resistances is to stack. If you stack in a Vamo or an SVD you can get all the way to 6v with average resistances (assuming amp limit isn't hit).
Dual 1.5Ω atty on a Vamo, 5.2v. Dual 1Ω atty on an SVD, 4.7v. Either can go all the way to 6v (or 5A) if I wanted. Not somewhere around 4v where ever the boost limitation hits according to the drain.
It's not about increasing life. It's about being able to use the mods to their abilities which can only be done by stacking.

A VV/VW mod like a Vamo or SVD is limited to 6v. It can't be set above that and volts is going to get you higher watts than the watt limit will get you volts (they both seem to be a "V or W" limits to my tastes unlike the eVic which is a "V and W" limit) so 6v is the absolute highest you can set them for.
A stack is 8.4v-6.4v before it shuts off.
Do you see the difference between the lowest possible battery voltage and the highest possible mod setting?
The voltage is always being stepped down. That puts less stress on the batteries than they would see in a mech as a single or in a VV/VW with settings most people would use as a single. The only way a single battery would see less stress would be if it was being vaped at less than 3.2v with a single so it was always stepping down. Stepping up is more stress than stepping down and that stress increases as battery voltage drops and the chip boosts further.

I can't find the blog you're talking about so it's either deleted or hidden more than what I did find. What I found talking about stacking was "This boosts the voltage output from 3.6V to 7.2V" which is obviously talking about mechs because the VV/VW's we are talking about can't be set above 6v and won't get appreciably above that.
Once again people are stuck giving incomplete and old information based only on old designs and old batteries and therefore giving old outdated wrong information.

It is safer for me to be pushing 1.5Ω-1.0Ω duals in a stacked Vamo or SVD at high voltage than it is for people to be sub-ohming duals on mechs to get similar results. When you consider some of the mods that are out there designed to stack and do high voltage that are way out of my league what is "no longer necessary" is sub-ohming mechs, or even mechs for that matter.
If you want to be hand waving get with the times and wave about what actually isn't necessary or necessarily the safest practice people have come up with. Wave your hands about what the battery manufacturers forbid doing not what they require. They forbid circuits like mechs, they require circuits like VV/VW, they do not forbid stacking.

 

[emily n portland]

Can you talk more about battery care if you are stacking batteries?
specifically this -- "The danger in stacking batteries in those mods designed to stack in is not checking your batteries and using them if they fall out of sync."

I stack 18350s in a REO vv (that's what recommended) ... couldn't find a lot of info when I got it, understand needed to boost the v

Should I just be rotating which one is on top then, and checking to make sure they all fully charge/discharge to about the same level?
Or did I miss anything else important?


Thanks!

 

[wv2win]

...........Furthermore, stacking batteries in theory wouldnt increase battery life, so theres really no need ot stack batteries in a VV/VW mod.

.............................

Obviously you have never run a power output test on one 18650 battery vs two 18350 batteries, which explains why you don't know what you are talking about. If I want to get and maintain the full power output of an APV like the Vamo, the only way that will happen is with two 18350's. I would suggest doing the test before posting again.

 

[wv2win]

Can you talk more about battery care if you are stacking batteries?
specifically this -- "The danger in stacking batteries in those mods designed to stack in is not checking your batteries and using them if they fall out of sync."

I stack 18350s in a REO vv (that's what recommended) ... couldn't find a lot of info when I got it, understand needed to boost the v

Should I just be rotating which one is on top then, and checking to make sure they all fully charge/discharge to about the same level?
Or did I miss anything else important?


Thanks!

There is only two things you need to do when stacking batteries and you will be just as safe as using one battery: use matched pairs and rotate the top battery after each use.

 

[RaceGun59]

http://www.siliconmethod.com/images/double.jpg

In the image above, you can see the double row of red Li-Ion cells that make up a full size Ridgid ‘Max’ battery. Each one outputs around 3.7 volts, plus or minus (4.2 v fully charged as in the pic, and around 3 v discharged). It is hard to tell in the pic, but the top and bottom row of cells are connected in parallel; then each set of two cells is connected in series.
10 cells total , divided by 2 because they are in parallel = 5.
5 x 3.7volts per cell set = 18.5 volts which is expected for an ’18v’ pack.

You can safely stack batteries. You device needs to be made to use the higher voltage and in the above case higher amperage. If your device allows the use of stacked batteries buy good IMR or the newer hybreds. Keep them paired up.

 

[Baditude]

I can't find the blog you're talking about so it's either deleted or hidden more than what I did find.

"Stacked or unstacked? In some mods, you can fit two 18350's when the mod is configured for an 18650. This boosts the voltage output from 3.6V to 7.2V which means more vapor. Yay. BUT, you should NEVER do this. Unless you are familiar with matching batteries, you are only endangering yourself and others. Sometimes, just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should".

You may think, "Well, shucks, laptops have multiple batteries in them, why can't my e-cig?" Laptop batteries are specifically designed for stacking and are paired for use at the factory. When using un-matched batteries, they will discharge and provide current at different rates. This means one battery will continuously take more of the stress than the other.

You may not notice any trouble at the start, but as the batteries age with use the problem will become more severe. Push the batteries a bit further and now you've entered the realm of thermal runaway (see pics at beginning of this blog). Downside being that one battery entering thermal runaway will push the other battery into thermal runaway. Now you have two small, flaming explosives only inches from your face."

Deeper Understanding of Mod Batteries - Part II

In the past, I have made posts on the pro's & con's of stacking batteries, the necessary steps involved to do it more safely, and why it is not neccessary to stack batteries today.

Before VV/VW mods were manufactured, the only way to do higher voltage vaping was to stack two 3.7 volt batteries to get 7.4 volts or use a 5 volt NiMh battery in a mechanical mod. We only had protected ICR batteries then which used flamable chemicals which could vent flames or explode when they failed under too much stress.

When variable voltage mods became available, there was no legitimate need to continue to stack batteries, as the circuit boards could push 6 volts with a single high-drain, safe-chemistry IMR battery.

My thoughts remain as they have always been concerning stacking batteries. Don't stack batteries in a mechanical mod - there is no protective circuitry to protect you. There are better and safer alternatives to achieve high voltage vaping today than to stack batteries in a mechanical -- use a VV or DNA regulated mod instead. I can not envision that the slight increase in performance in using two 18350 batteries over a single 18650 in a regulated mod would be worth the time and trouble involved while practicing safe stacking procedures, however a few regulated mods have been designed to take advantage of stacking batteries. NOT ALL REGULATED MODS HAVE BEEN DESIGNED TO ALLOW STACKING BATTERIES.

The term "matching batteries" means buying new batteries that are the exact model and "marrying them as a pair" for life. Alternate the order they are placed in the mod for equal discharge over their lifetime. Battery voltages should be monitored with a voltage meter after removal from the mod and after removal from the charger to insure their specs remain equal.

Some people's viewpoints may differ from mine, and that's ok. I just can't justify stacking batteries for any purpose today.

 

[Myk]

Can you talk more about battery care if you are stacking batteries?
specifically this -- "The danger in stacking batteries in those mods designed to stack in is not checking your batteries and using them if they fall out of sync."

I stack 18350s in a REO vv (that's what recommended) ... couldn't find a lot of info when I got it, understand needed to boost the v

Should I just be rotating which one is on top then, and checking to make sure they all fully charge/discharge to about the same level?
Or did I miss anything else important?


Thanks!

Mark the pair so you keep them as a pair, mark each so you know which is which (I use 1t and 1b, 2t and 2b, etc). Rotate the batteries. Check them after they drain to make sure either isn't dropping too low off the mod (the mods shut off at 6.4v but that's an average between the two not necessarily both being 3.2v). If one starts dropping much below 3.2v off the mod (you'd have to find the specific battery specs but I think too low is generally 2.5v and the 3.2v cutoff is a safety margin so I'd probably call 3v too low) I'd call that pair done and finish them off as singles, maybe find a new mate for the better one.
Check them after they have a charge and have a rest period. If they start falling appreciably apart after a rest call them done as stackers.

How close do you require them to be? I haven't really seen that information offered. Mine are usually within hundredths or thousandths. If they started being tenths apart after charge/rest I'd probably lean towards calling them done.

I have seen someone saying there's no need to rotate. In my limited experience with one set before I heard you should rotate that is not true. The unrotated set did fall further out of sync after only a few charge cycles than pairs that were rotated did. I corrected it by not rotating for a while with their position flipped. IMO rotating does keep your batteries in sync longer (but that opinion was formed on one pair vs two pairs so it's limited).


Baditude, that's what I found. It doesn't say what the person mentioning it said it did. I don't really see you saying what they said. A case of kindergarten pass the secret around the class and see how much it changes by the end of the room maybe?

But VV/VW don't get to 6v under certain drains (at least not Vamo and SVD). That is the reason to stack.
I don't see a need to stack with single coils because those two VV/VW get where I need them to go but with duals I do because they won't. If I took a single 3Ω coil I think that would get to 6v and it would probably be fine for me somewhere before that. But if I double that 3Ω coil the load of 1.5Ω won't let the Vamo/SVD get higher than around 4v, that's not enough to push two 3Ω coils enough for me.
Someone else may not like the fact that at the last 10% or so of battery life you can't boost to your desired voltage at average settings. With stacked you can get all the way to shut off at your desired voltage because it's always bucking power (personally I'd rather have the battery life and spare time even if it is low powered at the end).

As long as the mods are designed to read stacked as stacked and adjust accordingly the only danger is putting a weak battery in with a strong battery.
Yes if you cram a stack in a VTR that's not going to read and adjust accordingly something is going to fry or the batteries are going to get over drained. That could be a danger or it could just really suck if you fry your $100 mod.

"Don't stack batteries in a mechanical mod"
Absolutely, fully agree.

"I can not envision that the slight increase in performance in using two 18350 batteries over a single 18650 in a regulated mod would be worth the time and trouble involved while practicing safe stacking procedures"
It is. I can get sub-ohm like cloud chasing in a dual with the individual coil builds I like the best (I don't like sub-ohm mechs at all, I do like high voltage duals a little), have consistent delivery through the whole charge, and have safety features. My expense is lower run time because of the mah of 18350's and having to check the battery voltage when going in and coming out.
I think it's a fair trade off for having a cloud chaser I like and has safety features built into the mod.

"NOT ALL REGULATED MODS HAVE BEEN DESIGNED TO ALLOW STACKING BATTERIES"
Agree with what you're getting at here.
I am willing to stack. My local is of the "no no never" persuasion.
When looking at a VTR I wanted to know if it was designed to handle stacking. They of course jumped to "no no never". I pressed harder because I wanted to know what it was designed to do not what someone's uninformed knee jerk reaction is. They said, "try it and see" (because I wouldn't accept their knee jerk reaction as an answer). Well no, I don't want to burn up the chip or vent some batteries. I want to know if the device is built to handle stacking safely.
I did eventually find my answer by reading the manual in the store.
I got the VTR with the knowledge I wouldn't be stacking in it and therefore wouldn't be using it for dual coils.
YOU HAVE TO KNOW IF YOUR REGULATED DEVICE IS DESIGNED FOR STACKING BEFORE TRYING IT.