Vgod 150 Pro TC mod - TC problems....

[OhmegaInsomniac]

Hi all, apologies in advance but this is going to be one HELL of a 1st post

New to the forums but a relatively seasoned vaper (since ~2011). Decided to finally upgrade from the IPV3 to something with TC (and a bit more compact); so decided on the Vgod 150 Pro box mod 'cos it fit the bill...

I've used a couple of mates mods that have TC before so I understand how the concept works, and with this mod it's more of the usual + and - for temp, click + and - simultaneously to adjust Wattage etc. But regardless of what button combinations I've tried there is no way to lock the base resistance, and the device doesn't do it automatically. There is nothing in the manual, box or website either.

Even when I know that an 3mm id coil with 11 spaced wraps of 22ga Ti is definitely not 0.08ohm at room temperature by looking at it in wattage mode, and with a multimeter. the TC mode reads it as 0.08ohm...

Firing the device when in either TC mode with atty on just brings up the correct screen showing the wattage, which in less than 1 second reduces down to 0W and .18V cos it thinks the massive Ti coil is .08ohm! Buttons when pressed or held when locked does nothing but show the locked device screen.

I have taken the atty off and Ti mode detects no atty and 0ohm. I put the atty on and then see 0.08ohm again.

Wattage mode detects resistance properly and matches a
multimeter, but obviously don't want to be using Ti coil in wattage mode! Pointless!!

I've checked the atty and its not shorting out anywhere at all. Same Wismec Theorem works fine with all other wire, in all other modes, and temp control with the same coil on my mates DNA200 mod.

All other modes work as advertised and "mech" mode is surprisingly nice. Pro mode is lovely for dealing with coils with massive ramp up times too!

I contacted Vgod had some e-mails back and forth, then he said he had to ask someone higher up...

and that was a week ago...

Last night I emailed a chaser, but tonight had still no reply.

I've now tried 5 different atty's (dark horse rda, igo-w7 rda, goliath rta, Limitless Gold rdta & Wismec Theorem) 4 different gauges of wire (34ga Ti, 22ga Ti, 32ga Ni200 & 26ga NiFe48). Builds were all between ~0.15ohm and ~2.50ohm to test a theory.

All those builds work flawlessly on every other mod with TC capability I've had the opportunity to try.

I've even left it without power for a couple of days and tried it again with no change.

Any suggestions?...

Thanks in advance,

Luke



Also whilst I'm on the topic of this mod and as I have been examining the mod in a bit more detail:

In the literature it states that it is capable of fast charging the batteries I wanted to ask a question about charging to all you knowledgeable forum types

Let's suppose the 2 cells are unevenly discharged (or of different mAh values e.g. one 2000mAh other 2500mAh) and the device is on charge. One cell gets full yet the device is still charging the 2nd cell.

In this situation, as the cells are connected in series on this mod, would the charging current & voltage not be going through the already fully charged cell? Which as far as I know is really ....ing bad for lithium cells of any description!

Since all 18650 or Li cell chargers limit the maximum voltage to 4.2 volts per cell, can you not get into trouble charging multiple cells in series because it will charge the "pack" of cells to 8.4v?

Internal resistance differences over time surely lead to one cell having a lower voltage and forcing the series charger to charge one cell of the pack to a higher voltage to compensate for the lower voltage cell?

All I know is that when the voltage/internal resistance balance gets too far off between the cells, you end up with the "vent, flame, possibility of boom!" event which we all hate. Have done it to a few RC batteries before with a VERY old charger a long time ago!

 

[Eskie]

Can't help at all on the TC stuff as I don't have hat mod. On the battery charging issue a mod must have balanced charging if you're using it on a multi-battery mod. Not all do. Another reason to use an external charger. Oh, and batteries should be the same brand/rating/all that stuff so you don't have a "one is 2500 mAh, the other is 2000 mAh" situation (I'm sure you already know, that's in there for anyone else reading the thread who doesn't).

I hope you get it sorted out, as I've never had an issue like that on my mods so no joy on help.

 

[OhmegaInsomniac]

Shame about the TC issues, but thanks for the info on charging... I thought as much.

Just can't believe a company making premium mods, advertising them with fast charging capabilities and charging such a premium price would include such an unsafe method of charging the cells...

Thanks for taking a look (and wasting time reading that monster post )

 

[Eskie]

You're probably right that it does provide balanced charging (or it least it should in that price range), but even on mods I know that have balanced charging like DNA boards I still use an external and rely on the usb port only if in a real bind or traveling.

 

[Spey]

I do not have first hand experience with mod in question, but have a couple comments for consideration that might be helpful.

MOD Resistance Lock:
Your questions are good questions, sucks when manufacturers make researching their product so difficult ... :-/ If the manufacturer can not easily provide answers to my technical questions, I ususally stay clear as they are most lilely simply re-branded something made by others (if they can't answer questions before you buy, what realistic help might they be after you turn over your money ...).

If a mod will not lock a room temp resistance for an atomiser, I would not expect a very consistent TC vape from many different wire compositions. In general, would not expect much of a TC performance.

Some mods will auto-set the resistance-lock when in TC, but only after hitting the fire-button with no atty attached (SMOK Kooper 200w as example will ask user "new coil" and resistance lock the setting). Perhaps, hopefully in your case there is some option (possibly in a sub menu that may only be accessible via 2-button-press or from the off position). Other mods make things easier to find/understand.

MOD Battery Charging:
Your questions seem to be counter-intuitive to what most experienced users would consider doing (not meant to insinuate you are not experienced ... In general placing multiple rechargeable batteries into a device (differing levels of charge, battery rating, age/condition, etc., etc.) where the batteries are not married can be divorce-ive (batteries and/or device overheating, etc.). I do not know if the device you are asking about has a balance-board and/or if it does would it be capable of significant differences as you have mentioned. I will comment however, that most manufactures "design" parameters would be based on a user following SOP (standard operating procedures/parameters) including using married batteries of consistent age, condition, and charge (meaning: not very taxing to an on-board balance circuit vs. a dedicated external battery charger that includes multiple levels of charging current throughout a recharge cycle).

 

[OhmegaInsomniac]

MOD Resistance Lock is exactly what I've been looking for and it just seems non-existent!

And definitely going to be avoiding this manufacturer going forward which is a shame cos there are some innovative ideas like the software emulated single cell mech mode... don't know if that's Atomic Vapes the being the ATOMV.150B chipset designer tho.

Also don't know why I haven't thought of this but might see if I can get any clarification as to how the chipset/firmware has been implemented from them to figure something out?....

Have just been using (strike that: failing to use lol) single wire builds until I get it working, then wasn't really gonna expect much more for TC out of this mod. Has no options for custom TCR so... nothing accurate anyway.

I'll have to try the SMOK Kooper thing you mentioned that's one combo I've not tried yet! Even wrote out my own list down to tick off each combination :S

About the charging... hell no I'm not using it to charge batteries at all. I use my RC charger and soldered up a 6 cell18650 balance caddy for them just imagine a new vaper installing batteries and never taking them out tho!

This is trying to make sure I've got my facts 100% before I take this further. I'll be tearing down the mod shortly to see exactly how things work (logic probe and multimeter to the rescue I think). I'm presuming at the moment that with the way the cells are connected at one end with a solid bridge. Afaik there is no way to charge individual cells in that configuration?

Vgod are trying to be a premium brand whilst offering so far just a poorly implemented mod with fantastic PR/Ad people... and until I make more investigations into the charging, I'm going to hold back on saying dangerous.

The manual is pointless as well lol

Hindsight being the fickle mistress she is makes me wish I'd have waited to see some more reviews. However, so far not one has mentioned anything about any of this.

Thanks btw for all for the inspiration and the ideas/thoughts much appreciated!

 

[Eskie]

Eh, reviews are not always the most reliable source of info either. There are a few people who are reliable, but you get an awful lot of "best mod EVAR!" on every new mod they "test".

Weird on the resistance lock. Definitely weird on the no custom TCR in a box at this price point. Good luck pulling it apart. Please report back what you find. I realize it's after the fact for you, but someone else might benefit from the objective pluses and minuses on this thing.

Oh, and nice job with the RC charger!

 

[OhmegaInsomniac]

Thought you guys would all appreciate the update. This one is going to get long, simply cos I've included the email chain for sheer hilarity!

Through much anguish I have discovered that - button and fire button pressed simultaneously (precisely simultaneously) and held together lock the resistance into the TC mode. Even when done in any other mode, so be careful with this...

Also, it's definitely series charging. I personally would not charge cells in this. All it takes is once...

It also is likely that the individual charge level indicators may be rather inaccurate; but I have not been able to come to an acceptable conclusion as to how they are monitoring each cell, if at all. So I am going to hold judgement on that front.

Find below the emails... redacted of personal details to save the poor individual... for your enjoyment, in chronological order:

...

Me:
Hi,

Just have a couple of questions about this mod.

Firstly, on your website, on every promotional piece of material and on the packaging itself it states that the mod supports ss coils. However there are modes for pro (which is awesome by the way! No more ramp up time for my hybrid coils ), watts, ti, ni & mech but none for stainless.

There is also no option to program a proper TFR curve for stainless steel wires range of electrical resistance. Therefore at this point the mod does not support stainless coils.

Is this going to be rectified in the future, and if so how do you propose to update the firmware for mods already "out in the wild" to properly support stainless steel coils.

Secondly, I have been trying to use the ti mode, but regardless of what I try it never works.

I press the fire button and all I get is the screen displaying that wattage & voltage are decreasing and no vapour or even heat is produced. I have tried single coil 22ga grade 1 ti on a dark horse rda ohming out at around .3 and dual coil 22ga grade 1 ti on the limitless gold rdta at .08ohm and regardless of what I try it will not successfully produce any heat. Any suggestions on the issue,as I don't have any problems with ti coils on any other mod.

Regards

VGod Customer Service:
Hey,

SS is only supported in watt mode and not in temp. There has been no discussion of upgrading the firmware on the device.

In temp mode, you can adjust the temp with the up and down buttons. you can also adjust the watts by pushing them both at the same time. Once dome you will notice the watt value is flashing. Up or down accordingly and press both again to set.

Me:

Hi,
I understand how to change the temp and wattage in tc mode. But regardless of what the coil ohms out at, tc mode reads them all as 0.08.

Even when I know that an 3mm id coil with 11 wraps of 22ga Ti is approx .35ohm at room temperature by looking at it in wattage mode and with a multimeter. It's like there is no button combination to lock in the "base" resistance in Ti mode, and the mod doesn't seem to do it automatically.

Any help getting this working would be really appreciated

Thanks

VGod Customer Service:
Did you try pressing the "+ & -" at the same time?

Me:
Yeah, both + and - together just let's me change the wattage... resistance stays locked in at 0.08. And when they are held it locks the buttons.

Firing the device when in Ti or Ni mode with atty on just brings up the correct screen showing the wattage, which within 1 second reduces down to 0W and .18V cos it thinks the .33ohm Ti coil is .08ohm.

I have taken the atty off and Ti mode detects no atty and 0ohm. I put the atty on and then see 0.08ohm again.

Wattage mode detects resistance properly at .33ohm and matches my mates multimeter but don't want to be using Ti coil in wattage mode when there is a dedicated Ti mode.

22ga Ti coil .3mm spaced so no shorting between wraps for accurate temp control. From 510 +ive and -ive to atty posts are .0013ohm and not shorting out cos I wanted to double check for dodgy atty. Same Theorem RTA works fine with kanthal in all other modes, and temp control with the same coil on my mates DNA200 mod.

Attached pics as well to describe the above. Vid can be supplied if needed.

All other modes work as advertised and can I say mech mode is lovely! And pro mode is lovely for dealing with coils with massive ramp up times

VGod Customer Service:
I will need to appeal to a higher court on this matter. Your patience is appreciated.

Approx 1 week later...

Me:
Hi,

Thought I'd leave it a while... It's been a while now and the silence grew deafening.

Any luck finding what the issue is with the "higher court" yet?

Just an update on tests I've done since; and neither TC mode is working still.

I've now tried 5 different atty's (dark horse rda, igo-w7 rda, goliath rta, Limitless Gold rdta & Wismec Theorem) 4 different gauges of wire (34ga Ti, 22ga Ti, 32ga Ni200 & 26ga NiFe48). Builds were all between ~0.15ohm and ~2.50ohm.

All builds work flawlessly on every other mod with TC capability I've had the opportunity to try.

This is definitely an issue with the TC chipset or firmware (i was presuming the mod was automatically meant to read the base resistance by detecting a new atty/coil installed at this point) as all other modes on the Vgod Pro 150 work as they are meant to. Obviously except for the different TC modes which are still reading 0.8ohm with any build installed; and 0.0ohm with no atty or no coil installed.

I've also left it without power for a couple of days and tried it again with no change.

Also, as I have been examining the mod in a bit more detail, and in the manual it states that it is capable of fast charging the batteries I wanted to ask a question about charging.

Let's suppose the 2 cells are unevenly discharged (or of different mAh values e.g. one 2000mAh other 2500mAh) and the device is on charge. One cell gets full yet the device is still charging the 2nd cell. In this situation, as the cells are connected in series, would the charging current & voltage not be going through the already fully charged cell? Which for lithium cells of any description is a bad idea.

Since Li-Ion chargers limit the maximum voltage to 4.2 volts per cell, you can get into trouble charging in series. The remote control vehicle community have moved away from series charging to strict balancing or parallel charging. We were tired of having battery packs blow up and catch on fire!

The problem occurs because cells have different internal resistance, and develop differences throughout their life. A perfectly matched set would have both cells at 4.2 volts. If a cell starts to increase in internal resistance, it will charge to a lower voltage and force the other cell to a higher voltage. The end total voltage for them both will remain the same, but the balance between each cell will be off. When this balance gets too far off, you end up with the rapid venting with flame event which we all hate.

Series charging has resulted in a fair amount of house fires, garage fires, car fires, fire damage, and even deaths. So you may be opening yourselves up to some serious problems if someone who has your device but not much knowledge of electronics is charging using the facilities your mod provides.

I look forward to your reply.

Today...
Me:

Hi,

I thought another update was in order.

Through much research, time and having to void the warranty by taking the device apart to get various pieces of equipment into the inner workings; I have finally discovered the fact that the mod makers could not tell me...

The fact the manual could not tell me!...

If you press the - button and fire button simultaneously and hold them, it will lock in the base resistance of the coil into the TC modes on your mod.

At least the resistance lock feature doesn't affect the other modes like some other, thankfully inferior mods, out there!

All of this could have been avoided by having a fully written up manual showing how to utilize the BASIC features of this premium price mod, don't you think?

I am still convinced that the battery charging situation is slightly out of whack for this price range and supposed quality. The Smok Alien 220w at half the price has balance charging each individual cell and it is half the price!

Not to mention series charging is potentially dangerous, balance charging is definitely safer!


Regards

 

[Eskie]

So supports SS means in wattage mode not TC? Nothing misleading going on there. And who knew they have to appeal courts to figure out how to work their mods. A very different, but unique approach to building mods. I can just picture the US Supreme court trying to reach a decision on mod design.

 

[OhmegaInsomniac]

So technically it supports: Kanthal, Nikrothal, Ni80, Ni60, Ni40, NiFe48, Ti, SS 314, SS316L, amongst other wire of various varieties and compositions?...

Maybe they should put that on the packaging too, or should I not give them ideas!

And it does feel like something the typical Justice system in the world would pump out... definitely not just or justified in their design choices for sure.

PMSL!.... Possibly even mod design by proxy, or even mod design by democratic vote!


Aesthetics, yes... Functionality, no.