For some reason I can't edit my post. I wanted to mention also that I suffered side effects on both occasions when I first quit from 93-95. I knew what I was in for the second time around from 95 and on. I had to quit because I was fed up with it. The highs over the years went from great to paranoia. It wasn't fun anymore.
Vaping severe depression
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I struggled badly the first month while learning to vape and trying to get off analogs. My coffee and my smokes have been my sobriety for almost 20 yrs now. I was definitely missing something without the smokes. I finally found Java Stonewalls and they helped me over the hurdle along with upping my nic to 36mg. But that first month my coping skills were just not there..everything was a panic attack and for no particular reason.
I had also followed the average comment here when mixing juice to add a bit of PGA to VG when mixing it. Even being sober for 20 yrs I didn't think a thing about it. I wasn't worried that i'd drink it..was just adding a few drops to cut the VG.
Well my body apparently thought different..and all of a sudden I was really raging again and was not pleasant to be around to say the least. Worst of all..after a few weeks of this..I was actually craving a drink. I thought at first it was just withdrawal from the smokes..but then it kept getting worse. I finally realized it must be the PGA...so I took it out of the mix and within a couple of days I came down and was doing much better.
Point of this is that if you've smoked for years to cope with anything..drinking, depression, anxiety, etc...then there is a steep change occuring in your body. vaping definitely works and it's much better than smoking..but it takes time and quite possibly some additional medical changes to get through it. I really had no idea how bad my addiction was..till I found a way to get through to the other side.
I'm now smoke free and starting to feel more than I have in years...like a fog is lifting...I found that I'm not nearly as anxious and strung out as before. I always thought i had to smoke to cope with life...but actually I'm finding it was the smokes that kept me from coping cause I was always strung out on the need for the chemicals.
I hope that all made sense...good luck..it's been worth it for me at least..and I hope you find the place you need to find...just don't give up...! It's worth it and there's a ton of folks here for help and support!
I had also followed the average comment here when mixing juice to add a bit of PGA to VG when mixing it. Even being sober for 20 yrs I didn't think a thing about it. I wasn't worried that i'd drink it..was just adding a few drops to cut the VG.
Well my body apparently thought different..and all of a sudden I was really raging again and was not pleasant to be around to say the least. Worst of all..after a few weeks of this..I was actually craving a drink. I thought at first it was just withdrawal from the smokes..but then it kept getting worse. I finally realized it must be the PGA...so I took it out of the mix and within a couple of days I came down and was doing much better.
Point of this is that if you've smoked for years to cope with anything..drinking, depression, anxiety, etc...then there is a steep change occuring in your body. vaping definitely works and it's much better than smoking..but it takes time and quite possibly some additional medical changes to get through it. I really had no idea how bad my addiction was..till I found a way to get through to the other side.
I'm now smoke free and starting to feel more than I have in years...like a fog is lifting...I found that I'm not nearly as anxious and strung out as before. I always thought i had to smoke to cope with life...but actually I'm finding it was the smokes that kept me from coping cause I was always strung out on the need for the chemicals.
I hope that all made sense...good luck..it's been worth it for me at least..and I hope you find the place you need to find...just don't give up...! It's worth it and there's a ton of folks here for help and support!
*edit* I was forced to remove all the links I intended on providing here because I am a new member.
There appears to be a decent amount of info on the subject of cigarettes and depression on the net. Google is your friend here. You're not alone.
I've only just skimmed some of the information I'll present here. This is all news to me as I never delved into it. Basically what it sounds like you're going through is withdrawal from cigarette smoke's ability to inhibit MAO, Monoamine Oxidase. Since you're losing an inhibitor of MAO there's more available to catalyze more dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine meaning less is available to fulfill their functions which can lead to depression among other symptoms.
"Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and,cognition, voluntary movement, motivation, punishment, and reward, inhibition of prolactin production, sleep, mood, attention, working memory and learning."
Serotonin is another neurotransmitter that functions widely in the body and brain. "...brain cells, most are influenced either directly or indirectly by serotonin. This includes brain cells related to mood, sexual desire and function, appetite, sleep, memory and learning, temperature regulation, and some social behavior." "...serotonin can also affect the functioning of our cardiovascular system, muscles, and various elements in the endocrine system. "
Some of the symptoms mentioned in the link below are exactly some of the symptoms I've had when quitting smoking before. Typically when I quit for 1 - 2 weeks I exhibit the inability to concentrate, a general feeling of uneasiness, disorientation, muscle tightness and spasms which all culminates in about 5 days with a feeling of having a heart attack. Twice I've gone cold turkey and twice I've sought medical treatment for fear of having a heart attack only to be told nothing is apparent. The first time I went to my doctor, he put me on an EKG. Everything was normal. The second time I felt like I was having a heart attack AND half of my left hand went numb.....I went to the emergency room. Everything was "normal".
I can sympathize with what you're going through. I've been through serious depression before, not attributed to smoking cessation. It's not fun. I know. You definitely want to speak to your doctor(s). If they insist you just need to tough it out then perhaps you should consult another doctor making sure to inform him/her about the medications you're taking and in what amounts and frequency. At the least you should probably smoke an analog or several daily with the intention of slowly weening yourself to allow your body's chemistry to make up for the removal of the smoke's effects. Use the vape as a nicotine crutch. Get a calender and for X days/weeks mark down that you'll smoke Y number of cigs on those days/weeks. Choose a next set of days/weeks and smoke Y minus 1 cig, repeat until number of cigs = 0. Let the calender dictate when and what you'll smoke. Don't rely on yourself. That is the only layman suggestion I know to give you. Otherwise, you'll have to depend on medical treatment.
There appears to be a decent amount of info on the subject of cigarettes and depression on the net. Google is your friend here. You're not alone.
I've only just skimmed some of the information I'll present here. This is all news to me as I never delved into it. Basically what it sounds like you're going through is withdrawal from cigarette smoke's ability to inhibit MAO, Monoamine Oxidase. Since you're losing an inhibitor of MAO there's more available to catalyze more dopamine, serotonin and norepinephrine meaning less is available to fulfill their functions which can lead to depression among other symptoms.
"Dopamine has many functions in the brain, including important roles in behavior and,cognition, voluntary movement, motivation, punishment, and reward, inhibition of prolactin production, sleep, mood, attention, working memory and learning."
Serotonin is another neurotransmitter that functions widely in the body and brain. "...brain cells, most are influenced either directly or indirectly by serotonin. This includes brain cells related to mood, sexual desire and function, appetite, sleep, memory and learning, temperature regulation, and some social behavior." "...serotonin can also affect the functioning of our cardiovascular system, muscles, and various elements in the endocrine system. "
Some of the symptoms mentioned in the link below are exactly some of the symptoms I've had when quitting smoking before. Typically when I quit for 1 - 2 weeks I exhibit the inability to concentrate, a general feeling of uneasiness, disorientation, muscle tightness and spasms which all culminates in about 5 days with a feeling of having a heart attack. Twice I've gone cold turkey and twice I've sought medical treatment for fear of having a heart attack only to be told nothing is apparent. The first time I went to my doctor, he put me on an EKG. Everything was normal. The second time I felt like I was having a heart attack AND half of my left hand went numb.....I went to the emergency room. Everything was "normal".
I can sympathize with what you're going through. I've been through serious depression before, not attributed to smoking cessation. It's not fun. I know. You definitely want to speak to your doctor(s). If they insist you just need to tough it out then perhaps you should consult another doctor making sure to inform him/her about the medications you're taking and in what amounts and frequency. At the least you should probably smoke an analog or several daily with the intention of slowly weening yourself to allow your body's chemistry to make up for the removal of the smoke's effects. Use the vape as a nicotine crutch. Get a calender and for X days/weeks mark down that you'll smoke Y number of cigs on those days/weeks. Choose a next set of days/weeks and smoke Y minus 1 cig, repeat until number of cigs = 0. Let the calender dictate when and what you'll smoke. Don't rely on yourself. That is the only layman suggestion I know to give you. Otherwise, you'll have to depend on medical treatment.
Shai, It was really thoughtful of you to do all that research. I learned a lot.
Unless someone has a mental illness or has loved someone who did, I don't think they have a clue what a struggle and challenge it is to maintain a balance. I have to be so mindful of how much sleep I get, how and what I eat and even how much time I spend alone. Slacking off on any one of these can have a snowball effect that can put me in a very dark place that can take weeks or even months to get back from. I know clearly that I used cigarettes to help stabilize my mood for decades, that's part of the reason that in my heart of hearts I never really believed I could quit, I felt like I needed the cigarettes to feel okay. Seems like science is catching up and telling me what my gut knew all along.
Unless someone has a mental illness or has loved someone who did, I don't think they have a clue what a struggle and challenge it is to maintain a balance. I have to be so mindful of how much sleep I get, how and what I eat and even how much time I spend alone. Slacking off on any one of these can have a snowball effect that can put me in a very dark place that can take weeks or even months to get back from. I know clearly that I used cigarettes to help stabilize my mood for decades, that's part of the reason that in my heart of hearts I never really believed I could quit, I felt like I needed the cigarettes to feel okay. Seems like science is catching up and telling me what my gut knew all along.
I've got severe social anxiety and depression as well but I'm not on any medications anymore. haven't noticed any changes for better or worse since I started vaping. Keep in mind things like changing your eating habits and sleeping patterns can really screw us up more than normal people. Wish I could help- I know how miserable it is. Good luck
Here's a link that talks about MAOI and cigarettes.
This is your brain on nicotine
This is your brain on nicotine
When I quit without ecigs I did go through a 3 month semi depression. It passed when I took up running. My doctor told me that I needed to do something to replace the "hit" I got off cigarettes. Really helped me. I still run and bike and it keeps me sane. That being said go see your doctor, it may be your dosage that is causing it. Don't play around with depression, it can really hurt you!
For medical depression you have to have good health and proper medical treatment to beat it.
For medical depression you have to have good health and proper medical treatment to beat it.
Fro discussion in detail about this:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-nicotine-absorption-addictiveness-maois.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-nicotine-absorption-addictiveness-maois.html
Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences. I for one feel much better now that I am off analogs and on to vaping. I was a real mess for for about 3 months and that isn't good when you have a teenage daughter.
wow, i've only been vaping a short time and havnt had any problems but i hope it doesnt bring on depression..
In my experience depression is insidiously subtle. It creeps up on you and before you know it a bad day, bad life experience and or a combination of them hitting within a short time will send you over the edge. But it's not just the experiences. It's the brain chemistry. Many people that have never experienced depression, real depression, think it's just a matter of pulling one's self up by the boot straps and getting on with life. For those of us who have experienced real depression we are incapable of recognizing the boot straps. It's like being stuck inside a large water tower. There's a ladder right next to you but you have no concept of what a ladder is. The concept of two long parallel poles with rungs inbetween is foreign and the idea that you climb it never crosses your mind. Of course people standing out side of the barrel are telling you to climb the ladder and can't understand why you just don't do it. If the brain chemistry is right then it's easy to think you just pull yourself out of the funk. And those people do. But if the chemistry is all messed up you're incapable of perceiving any other way to "think" other than what you already are thinking.
For me it was a complete loss of perspective. Simple, everyday tasks and events became difficult. I could no long objectify my actions. There were times I needed someone beside me to tell me if I was correcting thinking about this a certain way or that a certain way. But, of course there was noone there. And professional "treatment" consisted of medication which I never took. Anywho.....
For me it was a complete loss of perspective. Simple, everyday tasks and events became difficult. I could no long objectify my actions. There were times I needed someone beside me to tell me if I was correcting thinking about this a certain way or that a certain way. But, of course there was noone there. And professional "treatment" consisted of medication which I never took. Anywho.....
I question, however, whether nicotine is the active ingredient in tobacco. If it were, nicotine patches should satisfy a smoker's craving for tobacco; they don't! In prisons, where, as a part of the punishment, smoking is sometimes forbidden, the inmates take to smoking corn silk, paper, string, etc., none of which contain any nicotine. When I was a young man, there was a chain of tobacco stores which sold cheap cigars. They were made almost entirely from brown paper, with only one outside wrapper made from tobacco. I doubt they contained any significant amount of nicotine. Yet, they were a satisfying smoke.
Recently, anti-smoking forces have suggested taking the nicotine out of cigarettes, to discourage smoking. This assumes, of course, that smokers smoke to get nicotine. In their book, "Life Extension", health writers Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw, take a different approach. Believing that smoke is bad for health but that nicotine is not, Pearson and Shaw suggest that cigarettes be spiked with extra nicotine, so that smokers will consume fewer cigarettes. It is not universally accepted, however, that nicotine is the active ingredient in tobacco smoke. The authors of the widely respected "Merck Manual" say only that it is "probably" the active ingredient. If, in fact, the anti-smokers finally succeed in getting the tobacco companies to remove the nicotine from cigarettes, we will finally find out the truth. My own bet is that a cigarette without nicotine will probably be almost as satisfying as one with nicotine. The active ingredient in smoke is smoke.
Recent studies, reported by the National Institute on Drug Addiction (NIDA), seem to bear out my hunch. These studies suggest that tobacco contains a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI). MAOI's are anti-depressants, which work by increasing serotonin levels in the brain. They are used in medicine to treat Parkinson's disease, which may explain why a number of studies have shown that smokers have a far lower rate of Parkinson's than non-smokers. In any event, the MAOI in tobacco smoke may play as great a role in smoking as nicotine.
"In Defence of Smokers", by Lauren A. Colby / Chapter 11
Wow martha, great post, I'm going to check out those studies. As someone with a chemical imbalance I know that I have consciously (or rather unconsciously) used cigarettes, alcohol, caffeine etc. to help me stabilize my mood. Unlike alcohol and caffeine, cigarettes take effect more quickly and leave my body sooner, so they became one of my favorite tools.
On a humorous note: Your post reminded me of an old .... Van .... movie that came out in the 60's. I think it was called Cold Turkey. The premise is that a small town is offered a bunch of money if the whole town goes without cigarettes for a month. It was pretty much bedlam. I can't imagine a prison without cigarettes, I had no idea. Now that IS punishment.
On a humorous note: Your post reminded me of an old .... Van .... movie that came out in the 60's. I think it was called Cold Turkey. The premise is that a small town is offered a bunch of money if the whole town goes without cigarettes for a month. It was pretty much bedlam. I can't imagine a prison without cigarettes, I had no idea. Now that IS punishment.
There's plenty of evidence on this forum to say that something besides nicotine and the act of smoking is inducing cravings for cigarettes even while vaping all day.
However, I will disagree that raising nicotine levels will result in less smoking. Nicotine levels have gone up over the years and yet we still have 2 and 3 pack a day smokers. I get all the nicotine I want right now and I still want to smoke a cig. I would guess that nicotine is the active ingredient that gets you hooked on smoking. It's a more acute type of addiction. The effects of the smoke on MAO is probably a longer term more subtle addiction. Honestly, it was much easier for me to try and quit several years ago than it has been recently. And the studies would bear that out as they suggest a cumulative effect. I've been vaping all day and I'm jones'ing for something today. Been about a week and a half since I stopped smoking cigs regularly. I've been smoking one or two a day since. I haven't smoked one today, yet. Yesterday I started experiencing minor fasciculations (muscle twitching). I smoked a cig and it went away. It's consistent with lower serotonin levels as one of their roles are as a muscle neurotransmitter.
One interesting thing I'll note here. A while back I switched from filtered cigs to roll your own. I had fasciculations, muscle cramps and went through "withdrawal". Was it lower nicotine or something else lacking in the smoke? IDK. Is it another component chemical found in premade cigarettes but not in plain cut tobacco?
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I agree Shai...I also switched to roll your own from Marlboro Ultra Light 100's before I started vaping..and I definitely noticed the difference. And dropping to vaping was very, very tough for me the 1st month..I used Java Stonewalls to get my needed alkaloids and that's let me get off analogs completely...finally..but it wasn't pretty the first month for sure. Of course the one time I tried to just quit cold turkey I had to patch holes in the sheetrock..so this time was definitely better..LOL!
Severe depression is what drove me back to smoking every time.
These attempts to quit were with nicotine gum, the patch, and etc. I learned that for the most part these are useless devices. After I would return to smoking I would feel like a failure and this would add to my depression. Yes I know what genuine depression is like. It can kill. Life is hopeless and thee is no point in living.
However I could also feel regular cigarettes slowing killing me. I knew that analogs would eventually kill me but I had no hope to quit them because in doing so the depression was so severe I would probably end up killing myself. Quite a dilemma. However there is hope. The ecig was my way out. I would vape my brains out. I did get depressed in the first and second month, but as many have said, it WILL pass. You will get back to normal. Now however you can add to your self image the super great accomplishment of quitting. Us former smokers realize what a monumental accomplishment this is. Those suffering from depression, even more so.
Good luck to you.
These attempts to quit were with nicotine gum, the patch, and etc. I learned that for the most part these are useless devices. After I would return to smoking I would feel like a failure and this would add to my depression. Yes I know what genuine depression is like. It can kill. Life is hopeless and thee is no point in living.
However I could also feel regular cigarettes slowing killing me. I knew that analogs would eventually kill me but I had no hope to quit them because in doing so the depression was so severe I would probably end up killing myself. Quite a dilemma. However there is hope. The ecig was my way out. I would vape my brains out. I did get depressed in the first and second month, but as many have said, it WILL pass. You will get back to normal. Now however you can add to your self image the super great accomplishment of quitting. Us former smokers realize what a monumental accomplishment this is. Those suffering from depression, even more so.
Good luck to you.
I cried!
I'm a really energetic, happy person most of the time. When I quit analogs, I tried cold turkey. It worked for about 3 days, then I started crying -- for no reason at all. I don't do prescriptions or OTC drugs -- not even an aspirin -- ever. So, I went out and bought a pack of cigarettes and started all over on quitting gradually. I went on the DIY subforum and asked if anyone knew of an aromatherapy vape for depression. Some of them said lavendar and rose were for depression -- I had both oils, as I practice a little aromatherapy from time to time. I put a double dose of rose oil on my lamp ring, got my book, and cuddled up with my two yorkies. It took about 10 minutes, but it definitely did work for me. I burned it for several days.
I would say the most important thing for you to do is to schedule an emergency appointment RIGHT NOW. Don't wait until your next appointment, just go to the dr office and wait until your doc will see you.
Put some rose or lavendar oil on your lamp while you're getting ready to go down to the dr. Maybe you could ask your doctor if you should buy a pack of cigarettes on your way back and start all over again by gradually decreasing instead of going cold turkey. I don't know what snus is, but the DIYers suggested that to me. There's info on the smokeless tobacco thread here somewhere.
But before taking any advice from us here, take your doctor's advice first. I'm sorry you're not up to par. Be kind to yourself, dearheart. Maybe buy yourself a pound of chocolate like Harry Potter always did when he was sick.
Hugz, blessings
Seabrook
I'm a really energetic, happy person most of the time. When I quit analogs, I tried cold turkey. It worked for about 3 days, then I started crying -- for no reason at all. I don't do prescriptions or OTC drugs -- not even an aspirin -- ever. So, I went out and bought a pack of cigarettes and started all over on quitting gradually. I went on the DIY subforum and asked if anyone knew of an aromatherapy vape for depression. Some of them said lavendar and rose were for depression -- I had both oils, as I practice a little aromatherapy from time to time. I put a double dose of rose oil on my lamp ring, got my book, and cuddled up with my two yorkies. It took about 10 minutes, but it definitely did work for me. I burned it for several days.
I would say the most important thing for you to do is to schedule an emergency appointment RIGHT NOW. Don't wait until your next appointment, just go to the dr office and wait until your doc will see you.
Put some rose or lavendar oil on your lamp while you're getting ready to go down to the dr. Maybe you could ask your doctor if you should buy a pack of cigarettes on your way back and start all over again by gradually decreasing instead of going cold turkey. I don't know what snus is, but the DIYers suggested that to me. There's info on the smokeless tobacco thread here somewhere.
But before taking any advice from us here, take your doctor's advice first. I'm sorry you're not up to par. Be kind to yourself, dearheart. Maybe buy yourself a pound of chocolate like Harry Potter always did when he was sick.
Hugz, blessings
Seabrook
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